Poland: French Missile Report Was Wrong

NYT.com ^

[Sub-Driver]

Poland: French Missile Report Was Wrong By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 12:43 p.m. ET

WARSAW, Poland (AP) -- After a protest from French President Jacques Chirac, Poland said Saturday it had been mistaken in reporting that its troops found new French-made anti-aircraft misiles in central Iraq.

Chirac swiftly denied selling Iraq weapons in violation of the U.N. weapons embargo against Saddam Hussein's regime. The claims, he said, ``are as false today as they were yesterday.''

An aide to the Polish prime minister said an initial report that the Roland missiles found by Polish troops days ago were produced in 2003 was incorrect. France said it stopped producing any type of Roland missile in 1993.

Prime Minister Leszek Miller met with Chirac twice to explain the mistake, said the aide, Tadeusz Iwinski. The two leaders were in Rome on Saturday for a European Union summit.

``There can be no 2003 missiles since these missiles have not been made for 15 years,'' Chirac told reporters in Rome. ``Polish soldiers confused things. I told ... Miller so frankly -- friendly but firmly.''

``It was wrongly said that the rockets were produced in that year,'' Iwinski said by telephone from the summit. ``The matter is cleared up now. President Chirac has accepted Prime Minister Leszek Miller's explanation.''

The Polish defense minister, Jerzy Szmajdzinski, ``expressed his regrets'' for the mistake, a ministry statement said.

The report first came in a statement by a ministry spokesman to Polish state television that the troops uncovered French-made Roland missiles in the town of Hilla, in the zone of central Iraq where the Poles lead a peacekeeping force. A ministry statement said the missiles were destroyed on Wednesday.

Since Saddam's fall in April, U.S. troops and journalists have seen Roland missiles at some weapons sites. France long had close ties to Iraq that included lucrative weapons deals.

Paris supplied arms, in exchange for oil, during the eight-year Iran-Iraq war. The French Foreign Ministry statement Saturday said that Roland 1 missiles and their launchers were exported to Iraq in 1980-81, whole Roland 2 missiles were exported for three years, from 1983 to 1986. France stopped making Roland 2s in 1988 and Roland 3s in 1993, it said.

The French ministry emphasized that France has not authorized the sale of weapons, or even spare parts, to Iraq since after July 1990. The United Nations imposed sanctions on weapons sales to Iraq after Saddam Hussein's 1990 invasion of Kuwait.

The Polish Defense Ministry said the Roland missiles were among about a dozen missiles uncovered near Hilla on Tuesday, including Soviet-made Malutka, French Hot and French-German Milan missiles. The Roland missilesa re about 25 feet long, radar-guided and launched from the back of a truck.

The U.S. military found 35 Roland missiles when it captured Baghdad International Airport in April. Roland missiles also were found when Australian troops captured an airfield in western Iraq.

The Web site GlobalSecurity.org says the Roland weapon system is intended for anti-aircraft defense of armored and mechanized the units to counter aircraft flying to nearly at 1 1/2 times the speed of sound or hovering helicopters.

The United States stopped producing the Roland-type weapon in 1981.

[EggsAckley]

Is this a "Polish joke?"

[Support Free Republic]

I'M BACK!!!

SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC

Donate Here By Secure Server

Or mail checks to
FreeRepublic , LLC
PO BOX 9771
FRESNO, CA 93794

or you can use

PayPal at Jimrob@psnw.com

STOP BY A BUMP THE FUNDRAISER THREAD (It's in the Breaking News sidebar!)

[UPcrawfish]

"2003" - "1993".. The missiles still ended up in Iraq - after the embargo... No amount of "dancing" can cover up the fact that the missiles are there - and they should not be there if France was in compliance with the UN embargoes..

[Renfield]

Just a couple of hours ago I saw a film clip of what were said to be these missiles (on Fox News), and the number 2003 was clearly visible on each missile!!!

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Of course francis left out the repair and upgrading
that occurs.
So saying they are no longer made is just a ploy.

[per loin]

An expiration date?

[aynrandfreak]

They may have threatened Poland's EU membership

[RandallFlagg]

Why did the Poles destroy them?!?! DAMMIT!!

[chudogg]

Definitely some back peddling here, and some shady backroom deals with the French and Polish. The question is why does the US let it happen?

[meyer]

They may have threatened Poland's EU membership.

I'm not sure if that is such a bad thing or not...

[Jeff Head]

Not manufactured in 2003...but perhaps shipped to Iraq in 2003 is my bet.

[NYFriend]

[French accent on] Nuh, Nuh, Nuh, you see, that is not that date they were made, that is simply the 'best if used by' date.

[tbpiper]

Just a couple of hours ago I saw a film clip of what were said to be these missiles (on Fox News), and the number 2003 was clearly visible on each missile!!!

The number is correct. You have to realize that the French are 10 years ahead of the rest of the world....just ask them. However, I'm not an expert on time. You might want to ask Gen Ashley Clark.

[Dog]

Huh?

[JeffreyH]

Any one have any screen caps from the television showing the missles with the purported date and serial number? Any pics at all?

I would like to see 'proof' on this... as I very well wish it to be true!

[xm177e2]

An aide to the Polish prime minister said an initial report that the Roland missiles found by Polish troops days ago were produced in 2003 was incorrect. France said it stopped producing any type of Roland missile in 1993.

...

``There can be no 2003 missiles since these missiles have not been made for 15 years,'' Chirac told reporters in Rome. ``Polish soldiers confused things. I told ... Miller so frankly -- friendly but firmly.''

Those two statements don't really contradict each other. They just prove that we are really in the year 2008. Those "new" missiles from 2003 are five years old, so it's no big deal.

[xm177e2]

In order to prove Chirac is lying, we don't have to prove those exact missiles came from France and are new and were shipped recently. All we have to do is prove that Roland missiles have been in production at some point in time over the last 10 years. Does anyone know how we would go about figuring this out?

[weegee]

France said it stopped producing any type of Roland missile in 1993.

[snip]

``There can be no 2003 missiles since these missiles have not been made for 15 years,'' Chirac told reporters in Rome.

Well which is it? 10 years or 15 years?

[weegee]

On another thread someone was saying that the missiles had already been destroyed (that no evidence remained).

Someone else on a different thread had a good question: locate the serial numbers and see who France DID sell the missles to (whether they are from 1993 or 2003).

[Azzurri]

I have seen those missiles on Polish TV today. There were pricisely close-ups of them. We could see the serial numbers and date of manufacturing: "ROLAND- ......-2003"!!!

Unbelievable. I saw the video on TV as well and clearly the missiles had "2003" on them. Something fishy is going on. We get the Kuwaitis intercepting sales of WMDs from Iraq and then it's later denied. Now this is denied.

[Dog]

Look here....

Roland

[Dog]

I saw the video on Fox...the missiles had~~~~~ KND 2003~~ on them.

[Dog]

Chirac is lieing look at this...

Here!

- Roland 2MR Trigat

The Roland short range air defence missile system is produced by Euromissile. Roland entered service with the French Army in 1977, and is in service with ten countries.French Army systems are mounted on vehicles based on the AMX-30 main battle tank.The Roland system is effective against air threats from extremely low to medium altitude. It is available as a standalone weapon system on a single vehicle or as an airliftable shelter, Roland Carol. Roland Carol has been in production since 1995 with 20 systems delivered to the French Army.

[cookcounty]

Maybe they aren't Rolands.

[xm177e2]

The French gov't responded to similar charges almost six months ago: Here is a link to the official French gov't website's press release (in English) explaining this. The discrepancy between 10 and 15 years can be explained by the Roland 1 missile's going out of production in 1988, while the Roland 2 did not go out of production until 1993.

Of course, this does not prove the French did not export missiles to Saddam in 2003, but it explains their position more clearly.

[xm177e2]

I should add that there are two other more recent variants of the Roland which I think are still in production, the Roland 3 and the Rolant VT1 hypervelocity missile.

If the missiles were recently manufactured, then they MUST have been the new variants AND they must have been shipped in recently, well after the embargo began. That could be a very big scandal. Of course, as another poster has pointed out, it's possible 2003 refers to the export date, and they are not new missiles (but they were illegally shipped to Iraq).

[snippy_about_it]

Mat,

I got the screen shots from the Polish TV you mailed. I'm uploading now and will post them here shortly. I'll ping you.

Thanks.

[xm177e2]

Chirac is lieing look at this...

No, the Roland 1 and Roland 2 went out of production in 1988 and 1993 respectively. The Roland 3 and Roland VT1 are still in production.

[livius]

Nice find!

[Dog]

``There can be no 2003 missiles since these missiles have not been made for 15 years Chirac said.

Now unles the Roland 3 is using 15 year old missiles I think Jackie told a fib!

[pointsal]

Let's see if I understand this again..... do the Frogs use serial numbers? Aren't those state-owned companies manufacturing these little gems?

[snippy_about_it]

Thank you Matthew Paul for these Polish TV screen shots.

The missiles...








Polish soldier says that the missiles they've found, have been produced by France this year.

Serial number....


Polish soldiers prepare the missiles to blow them up


Explosion

[VRWC_minion]

Sounds like the Polish don't like the French either.

[DoorGunner]

For what it's worth, this is from NewsMax, April 30, 2003:

French Missiles in Iraq

The Pentagon restrictions came after U.S. Army and
Australian special forces teams discovered advanced
versions of a French-made surface-to-air missile system
in Iraq. U.S. Air Force officials are certain that Iraqi
French-made Roland missiles downed at least one A-10
"Warthog" attack jet and may have killed two USAF
pilots in an F-15E Strike Eagle.

Australian special forces teams working in Iraq's
western desert uncovered 51 Iraqi MiG fighters hidden
near an abandoned airfield. The Aussie soldiers also
discovered a cache of Roland 2 missiles and a launcher
near the hidden MiG jets.

The Australian special forces members were critical to
the success in the Iraqi western desert against possible
missile attack against Israel.

In addition, U.S. airborne troops from the 101st division
recently stumbled onto a French-made Roland 3 missile
system, complete with radar, computer and fire control
electronics. The French army first deployed the Roland
3 advanced missile in 1995. The Roland 3 unit supplied
to Iraq would be a clear violation of the U.N. arms
embargo placed on Iraq after the first Gulf War.

French defense ministry officials recently denied that
the Roland 3 was supplied to Iraq. However, French
defense industry insiders speculated that Iraq might
have acquired the Roland 3 unit illegally from "mafia"
sources, suggesting that Paris has a problem with black
market theft inside advanced military projects.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/29/162810.shtml

DG

[zeaal]

I, too, viewed the footage on FOXNEWS with the "2003."

[madison10]

I, too, saw the film clip of the missiles w/ "2003" stamped on them. Someone sold the missiles to Iraq!

[netmilsmom]

Please do not confuse anyone with facts!

[SAMWolf]

Thanks for the TV captures.

[Tommyjo]

For crying out loud! Video footage exists of what the Polish Forces found. In this footage a Polish soldier is holding up several metal tags with the manufactuer SNIAS. This is a company that no longer exists. It became Aerospatiale in 1984 and then EADS. The date of manufacturer and the serial codes state "84" These are ROLANDS from the 80's. The "KND" tag was already found on ROLANDS back in April disovered by US forces. This is more than likely an Iraqi refurbished missile processed through the Kindi (KND) engineering facility and re-issued to the Iraqi forces.

[Bon mots]

Just the same, you cannot believe the Communist lying thief that is Leszek Miller, nor the Communist scumbag Jacques Chirac.

The brave Polish soldiers probably hate both of these idiots, especially as the popularity of Miller has tumbled to near negative numbers...

Our friends the Polish soldiers will never let us down. But the idiot Commies like Miller... that's another story.

[Tommyjo]

""2003" - "1993".. The missiles still ended up in Iraq - after the embargo... No amount of "dancing" can cover up the fact that the missiles are there - and they should not be there if France was in compliance with the UN embargoes.."

Wrong, wrong, wrong. The missile tags shown on video show Polish soldiers with the manufacturers plate date of 84 and the company that produced them in the eighties marked on them. Those four missiles are ROLANDS from the 1980s.

Snippet from Polish Defence Minister:

"I apologized to France for this information, which had been issued without my authorization," said Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski, adding that an investigation had been ordered.

He said Polish troops were likely to have interpreted the 2003 inscription on the missiles as the year of their production. "And this could have been, for example, the date up to which they are fit to be used," he said."

You guys are not looking at this logically, but with your "French bashing" hats on. French Air Force Mirage IVs were flying over Iraq on reconnaissance missions in the months and weeks preceeding the conflict. Why on earth would France be supplying arms to Iraq when these flights were taking place?

[Orion78]

Germany initiates Roland SLEP 1 November 2000

By Michael J Gething

The German Federal Agency for Military Technology and Procurement (BWB) has authorised EADS-subsidiary, LFK-Lenkflu-gkorpersysteme GmbH, to carry out the outstanding development work necessary for the service life extension programme (SLEP) of the Roland air-defence missile system in service with the German Army.

The contract for the Roland NDV project, as it is known, is valued at about Euro 20 million (US$17m) and will extend the service life of the system to 2015. The company expects a production contract to be placed in 2003.

The work will involve the following elements:
digitisation of the fire-control system;
a new control indicator for the commander;
installation of built-in test equipment to enhance maintenance;
a link to the army's HFLaAFuSys command and control system;
upgrade of the training and testing equipment and logistics; plus
preparation of the system to use the Roland 3 missile.

The implementation of this work in Germany follows a similar programme initiated in France (see JDU Vol IV No.10 p3), involving the introduction of a new visor (GLAIVE) and the new VT-L missile. The German Roland NDV programme will narrow the capabilities gap between the French and German systems.

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:ih-I3AtRvXkJ:www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/news/jdu/jdu001101_2_n.shtml+%22Roland+3+Missile%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[snippy_about_it]

Please do not confuse anyone with facts!

LOL.

france must have figure since the Poles blew them up they could say what they wanted.