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GUADALUPE DEVOTION IS CROSSING INTO PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS
Spirit Daily ^ | December 12, 2003 | Mike Brown

Posted on 12/13/2003 5:30:02 AM PST by NYer

The Los Angeles Times reports that the Virgin of Guadalupe -- whose feast is celebrated today (December 12) -- is growing in popularity not only among Catholics, but among Protestant denominations.

"In some Catholic parishes it's a bigger day than Christmas or Easter: the feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe," says the newspaper. "Beginning well before dawn, worshipers today will gather to celebrate the brown-skinned mother of Jesus who, legend says, appeared before a poor Mexican peasant in 1531.

"But the celebration isn't just for Catholics anymore. Increasingly, the pregnant Virgen de Guadalupe is turning up in other Latino-dominated churches as a way to make worshipers feel at home while honoring the mother of Christ and champion of the downtrodden."

The paper quoted a priest, Father Francisco Schulte, a scholar at St. John's University in Minnesota, as saying that any church wanting to attract Latinos "that doesn't take into account how deeply that message [of Our Lady of Guadalupe] is rooted in the Latino identity … is pretty well doomed."

The Virgin of Guadalupe -- who converted millions of pagan Aztecs back in the 16th century -- is now finding her way into denominations that once denounced such devotion. "The trend is particularly noticeable at Episcopal and Lutheran churches, whose liturgical traditions are closest to Catholicism," says the Times. "Parishioners at St. Matthew's Episcopal Church in National City, south of San Diego, will gather this evening to sing and bring roses for Our Lady of Guadalupe. During the service, eight children will have their first communion. 'Mexicans identify with her because she looks like them,' said the Rev. Patricia Andrews-Callori, rector of the parish. 'She's been a consolidating force for Mexicans.'"

While not all Mexicans are Catholic (about ten percent are in other denominations), all of them, note scholars, are guadalupano. "So to connect with Latino congregants, especially Mexicans who've strayed from the Catholic Church, Protestant leaders find themselves grappling with what to do with her," says the newspaper.

Of all places, in Berkeley, students at a major West Coast seminary for Episcopalians, the Church Divinity School of the Pacific, honored her Thursday evening with a service that mixed Catholic readings into the standard liturgy. The same was done elsewhere. "Some people don't understand it because these things are Catholic," said Margarita Farias, a 33-year-old parishioner and mother of two who lives in San Clemente. "But I felt that [the Virgin of Guadalupe] is the mother of us all. I feel we can have her, celebrate her and be a part of this church too."

In converting the Aztecs, Mary turned them away from their devotion to the Aztec mother-goddess, Tonantzin. Her appearances there took place, ironically, around the time that Martin Luther split the Church. Concludes the Times: "Our Lady of Guadalupe's appearance in non-Catholic services has scholars and others wondering whether the beloved apparition that has united Mexicans for nearly five centuries can bring together Christian denominations.


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; devotion; episcopal; guadalupe; lutheran; protestant; virgin

1 posted on 12/13/2003 5:30:03 AM PST by NYer
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
In 1531 a "Lady from Heaven" appeared to a poor Indian at Tepeyac, a hill northwest of Mexico City; she identified herself as the Mother of the True God, instructed him to have the bishop build a temple on the site and left an image of herself imprinted miraculously on his tilma, a poor quality cactus-cloth, which should have deteriorated in 20 years but shows no sign of decay 469 years later and still defies all scientific explanations of its origin.
It apparently even reflects in her eyes what was in front of her in 1531!
Her message of love and compassion, and her universal promise of help and protection to all mankind, as well as the story of the apparitions, are described in the "Nican Mopohua", a 16th century document written in the native Nahuatl language.
There is reason to believe that at Tepeyac Mary came in her glorified body, and her actual physical hands rearranged the roses in Juan Diego’s tilma, which makes this apparition very special.
An incredible list of miracles, cures and interventions are attributed to Her. Yearly, an estimated 10 million visit her Basilica, making her Mexico City home the most popular Marian shrine in the world, and the most visited Catholic church in the world next to the Vatican.
Altogether 24 popes have officially honored Our Lady of Guadalupe. His Holiness John Paul II visited her Sanctuary four times: on his first apostolic trip outside Rome as Pope in 1979, and again in 1990, 1999 and 2002.
The Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe is celebrated on December 12th. In 1999, Pope John Paul II, in his homily from the Solemn Mass at the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe, during his third visit to the sanctuary, declared the date of December the 12th as a Liturgical Holy Day for the whole continent.
During the same visit Pope John Paul II entrusted the cause of life to her loving protection, and placed under her motherly care the innocent lives of children, especially those who are in danger of not being born.

2 posted on 12/13/2003 5:33:05 AM PST by NYer (Keep CHRIST in Christmas!)
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To: NYer
Where can I get a copy of this print? It's beautiful.
3 posted on 12/13/2003 6:01:42 AM PST by tob2 (Old Fossil and proud of it!)
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To: NYer
Hope I'm around for the 500 year celebration.
4 posted on 12/13/2003 7:13:34 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: tob2
You can get a variety of prints and gifts at this site:

www.ourladyofguadalupe.org/

I was lucky enough to have both of these traveling images of Our Lord and Our Lady in my home.

5 posted on 12/13/2003 7:17:25 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: NYer
**When the talk ended, she later told me that she had never felt like she was in a stampede before. She said the teens thundered down the gym bleachers towards her and she threw the cards on the table and literally ran out of the way. The teens cleared out the cards and were nagging the administration because there was none left.**

Praying that these former Catholics may return to their home in the Catholic Church.

Amazing story, however!
6 posted on 12/13/2003 9:14:53 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: tob2
any Catholic Bookstore will have prints of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Even the $1.00 stores have candles with this image on them.
7 posted on 12/13/2003 9:16:52 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
**Her appearances there took place, ironically, around the time that Martin Luther split the Church. Concludes the Times: "Our Lady of Guadalupe's appearance in non-Catholic services has scholars and others wondering whether the beloved apparition that has united Mexicans for nearly five centuries can bring together Christian denominations.** A most intriguing thought.
8 posted on 12/13/2003 9:17:42 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: tob2
More images here:

A Novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe

Relic From Guadalupe Tilma to Tour U.S.

The Amazing Truth of Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady Of Guadalupe

Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531

9 posted on 12/13/2003 9:21:26 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: tob2
Additional images:

Catholic Caucus: Daily Mass Readings, 12-12-03, Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe

10 posted on 12/13/2003 9:23:06 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Cap'n Crunch
You just may be!

2031
11 posted on 12/13/2003 9:24:20 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
By that time I'll be 70-something...and hopefully young at heart.
12 posted on 12/13/2003 12:21:12 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: NYer
While reverence and adoration of Our Lady of Guadalupe is a great thing, I can't help but feel the Protestant denominations in Mexico are doing it for the wrong reasons, for marketing purposed rather than for theology.
13 posted on 12/13/2003 1:41:59 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: tob2
Those are not the actual colors. Check out the Daily Mass Thread for the actual picture.

Her veil is turquoise, not purple as pictured above.

Turquoise signifies the Holy Spirit
Rose garment signifies God the Father
The sash is brown, signifying that she is pregnant with God the Son

Thus, Mary is clothed with the Trinity.
14 posted on 12/13/2003 4:17:59 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
"... instructed him to have the bishop build a temple on the site and left an image of herself imprinted miraculously on his tilma..."


And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him. And Peter answered, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, I will make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah. While he was yet speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. - Mat 17:3-5

God puts the focus on Jesus.
15 posted on 12/15/2003 11:19:51 AM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Salvation
Sadly, they don't seem to recognize the inherent contradiction of reverencing Our Lady of Guadalupe while abandoning the Holy Catholic Church. For non-Catholics to misappropriate the image to recruit former Catholics is shameful hypocrisy and opportunism.
16 posted on 12/15/2003 2:21:44 PM PST by Flying Circus (As you do pray, so you do believe)
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To: Flying Circus
One thing recognized by the Church is that the Mother leads to the son. Maybe it will be the actual denomination that converts. God works in mysterious ways:-}
17 posted on 12/15/2003 2:46:44 PM PST by tiki
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To: tiki
Son
18 posted on 12/15/2003 2:47:30 PM PST by tiki
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To: tiki
!
19 posted on 12/15/2003 2:48:54 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
As does the Blessed Mother.

"His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye." John 2:5

20 posted on 12/15/2003 2:57:55 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
***As does the Blessed Mother.***

As did the blessed mother.
21 posted on 12/15/2003 3:06:21 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: drstevej
As the blessed mother did, does and will do.
22 posted on 12/15/2003 3:55:13 PM PST by Flying Circus (As you do pray, so you do believe)
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To: drstevej
She still does.
23 posted on 12/15/2003 3:56:33 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Flying Circus
eisegesis
24 posted on 12/15/2003 4:02:13 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
eisegesis
25 posted on 12/15/2003 4:02:33 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: drstevej
I understand that your own novel interpretation of scripture puts Mary dead in her grave, but I not am going to abandon 20 centuries of Christian teaching and agree with you.
26 posted on 12/15/2003 4:14:32 PM PST by Flying Circus (As you do pray, so you do believe)
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To: Flying Circus
***I understand that your own novel interpretation of scripture puts Mary dead in her grave***

That is not my view.

My objections were:

[1] to the title Blessed Mother (she is blessed and a mother, but the title has no biblical basis)

[2] to taking a singluar past statement and extrapolating a present function, without any scriptural warrant.
27 posted on 12/15/2003 4:22:27 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: drstevej
(she is blessed and a mother, but the title has no biblical basis)

Huh??? Have ever bothered to read the first chapter of Luke?

to taking a singluar past statement and extrapolating a present function, without any scriptural warrant.

You choose to ignore the context of the Bible and apply your own novel interpretation of it so I can understand your blindness the deeper meanings in the wedding at Cana. I suggest you spend some time prayerfully contemplating the narrative of wedding at Cana, and it's place in the Gospel account.

28 posted on 12/15/2003 4:55:18 PM PST by Flying Circus (As you do pray, so you do believe)
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To: drstevej
[1] to the title Blessed Mother (she is blessed and a mother, but the title has no biblical basis)

"all generations shall call me blessed."

2] to taking a singluar past statement and extrapolating a present function, without any scriptural warrant.

If the Bible is all we have (i.e. Tradition means nothing), then is it possible to place too much emphasis on a "singular past statement" , in the Gospel, no less?

29 posted on 12/15/2003 5:05:39 PM PST by old and tired
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To: old and tired
***"all generations shall call me blessed." ***

YES! By all means. Blessed Mother ??? it doesn't say that.

***If the Bible is all we have (i.e. Tradition means nothing), then is it possible to place too much emphasis on a "singular past statement" , in the Gospel, no less?***

There is a pattern in the RCC of taking verses and extrapolating meaning not found in the text. Bad methodology

"full of grace" is another example of RC eisegesis.
30 posted on 12/15/2003 5:08:56 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: drstevej
YES! By all means. Blessed Mother ??? it doesn't say that.

So, you never refer to Our Lord Jesus Christ or God Our Heavenly Father by any name which doesn't appear exactly in scripture, even if scripture clearly shows it's warranted?

There is a pattern in the RCC of taking verses and extrapolating meaning not found in the text. Bad methodology

Meaning not found in the text according to whom? The Church Fathers,Luther, Calvin, you, or the woman preaching over at the Methodist Church?

I fear we will never agree here on earth. I will continue to pray for your conversion to the One True Faith. Peace to you, my brother in Christ.

31 posted on 12/15/2003 5:26:37 PM PST by old and tired
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Yes, she does in the scriptures. But the more I study the these appearances the more I am becoming convinced that it is slowly and by stages leading people away from a focus o­n God and Christ at to a "safe harbor" in Mary. Let me give you an example from Fatima...


"...Do you suffer a great deal? Don’t be discouraged. I will never forsake you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the road that will conduct you to God."

...

"To prevent this, I come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart and the Communion of reparation o­n the First Saturdays. If they listen to my requests, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If not, she will scatter her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; many nations will be annihilated.

Jesus wishes to make use of you to have me acknowledged and loved. He wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart."

“Here you see hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart... Pray, pray a great deal and make sacrifices for sinners. So many souls go to hell because there is no o­ne to pray and sacrifice for them.”


These appearances are about Mary and her roll in redemtion. Granted, God and Christ are present in the above - but They are supposedly telling people They want them to be devoted to Mary. Some are even calling this the Marian age - which, to my mind, goes squarely against scripture when it says,

"God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son"  Heb.1 ASV



32 posted on 12/15/2003 5:39:12 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: old and tired
Peace to you as well.
33 posted on 12/15/2003 5:58:25 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Mary is the mother of all Christians and Jesus gave her to the world at the time of His death when He entrusted her care to John. As Christians we are obligated to honor her in accordance with the 4th Commandment. The Church has always taught that the Blessed Mother has a unique role in the redemption of mankind but that there is only one Redeemer, Jesus Christ.
34 posted on 12/15/2003 6:30:45 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: drstevej
2 Peter 3:16
35 posted on 12/15/2003 6:37:10 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
2 Peter 3:16 back at ya.
36 posted on 12/15/2003 6:39:45 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Gold Medal Eisegesis
37 posted on 12/15/2003 6:40:35 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: drstevej
This from a person who bases his faith on the teachings of someone; who was, incidentally, quite devoted to the Blessed Mother, who heavily edited Scripture to his liking. Hubris, indeed.
38 posted on 12/15/2003 6:44:47 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
I don't base my faith on the teaching of the Reformers. A greek and hebrew text are sufficient to point me to Jesus.
39 posted on 12/15/2003 7:07:01 PM PST by drstevej (Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam)
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To: NYer
bflr
40 posted on 12/16/2003 9:48:07 AM PST by fishtank
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To: NYer; All
American Catholic’s Saint of the Day

 

December 12, 2006
Our Lady of Guadalupe

The feast in honor of Our Lady of Guadalupe goes back to the sixteenth century. Chronicles of that period tell us the story.

A poor Indian named Cuauhtlatohuac was baptized and given the name Juan Diego. He was a 57-year-old widower and lived in a small village near Mexico City. On Saturday morning, December 9, 1531, he was on his way to a nearby barrio to attend Mass in honor of Our Lady.

He was walking by a hill called Tepeyac when he heard beautiful music like the warbling of birds. A radiant cloud appeared and within it a young Native American maiden dressed like an Aztec princess. The lady spoke to him in his own language and sent him to the bishop of Mexico, a Franciscan named Juan de Zumarraga. The bishop was to build a chapel in the place where the lady appeared.

Eventually the bishop told Juan Diego to have the lady give him a sign. About this same time Juan Diego’s uncle became seriously ill. This led poor Diego to try to avoid the lady. The lady found Diego, nevertheless, assured him that his uncle would recover and provided roses for Juan to carry to the bishop in his cape or tilma.

When Juan Diego opened his tilma in the bishop’s presence, the roses fell to the ground and the bishop sank to his knees. On Juan Diego’s tilma appeared an image of Mary as she had appeared at the hill of Tepeyac. It was December 12, 1531.

Comment:

Mary's appearance to Juan Diego as one of his people is a powerful reminder that Mary and the God who sent her accept all peoples. In the context of the sometimes rude and cruel treatment of the Indians by the Spaniards, the apparition was a rebuke to the Spaniards and an event of vast significance for Native Americans. While a number of them had converted before this incident, they now came in droves. According to a contemporary chronicler, nine million Indians became Catholic in a very short time. In these days when we hear so much about God's preferential option for the poor, Our Lady of Guadalupe cries out to us that God's love for and identification with the poor is an age-old truth that stems from the Gospel itself.

Quote:

Mary to Juan Diego: “My dearest son, I am the eternal Virgin Mary, Mother of the true God, Author of Life, Creator of all and Lord of the Heavens and of the Earth...and it is my desire that a church be built here in this place for me, where, as your most merciful Mother and that of all your people, I may show my loving clemency and the compassion that I bear to the Indians, and to those who love and seek me...” (from an ancient chronicle).



41 posted on 12/12/2006 9:55:56 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer

Protestant denominations. Oh. That might be the problem.


42 posted on 07/18/2008 11:14:18 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
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