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Bishops rekindle anti-Catholic bias
cap times ^ | 1/23/04 | Dave Zweifel

Posted on 01/24/2004 6:04:36 AM PST by johnb2004

Don't Burke and those fellow bishops who "congratulate" him understand how they're playing into that anti-Catholic prejudice that was so prevalent back then and could easily resurface today?

Do they really want voters to pick candidates based on their religion?

(Excerpt) Read more at madison.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS:
I wonder if those Catholic bishops who think it's OK to hold the sacraments of their church over the heads of Catholic politicians have any idea of what happened during the presidential election of 1960.

Memories of that election came back to me the other day when I hung up the phone after a conversation with the dean of Wisconsin's congressional delegation, Rep. Dave Obey, the highly respected Wausau Democrat.

Obey and I were college classmates here at the University of Wisconsin back in the '60s, both active in the Young Dems at the time. Although we had both supported Hubert Humphrey in Wisconsin's presidential primary that spring, we worked our tails off for the guy who eventually wound up with the nomination - John F. Kennedy.

There was a lot of nastiness in that 1960 campaign, but none so serious as the charges that if Kennedy, a Catholic, was elected president, he would have to take orders from the pope in Rome.

And it was more than a whispering campaign. Voters received mailings telling them exactly that, and several anti-Kennedy politicians publicly made insinuations about the church's control over its members. Some people put red paint on quarters, supposedly describing how the coins would look once the pope had control of our presidency. We were astounded at the anti-Catholic bias.

It got so bad that Kennedy himself had to address the issue. That September he delivered a major address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Here are some excerpts:

"Because I am a Catholic, and no Catholic has ever been elected president, the real issues in this campaign have been obscured - perhaps deliberately, in some quarters less responsible than this. So it is apparently necessary for me to state once again not what kind of church I believe in - for that should be important only to me - but what kind of America I believe in.

"I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute - where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference; and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

"I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish - where the public official neither requests nor accepts instructions on public policy from the pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all."

Ironically, nearly 44 years later, Obey, himself a Catholic, has been targeted by outgoing La Crosse Diocese Bishop Raymond Burke because Obey has voted pro-choice, contrary to the church's beliefs.

Don't Burke and those fellow bishops who "congratulate" him understand how they're playing into that anti-Catholic prejudice that was so prevalent back then and could easily resurface today?

Do they really want voters to pick candidates based on their religion?

If that's the case, then all those protestations back then by JFK, his supporters and, yes, the church itself sound terribly hollow.

1 posted on 01/24/2004 6:04:37 AM PST by johnb2004
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To: johnb2004
bump for later. Looks interesting
2 posted on 01/24/2004 6:19:25 AM PST by St.Chuck
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To: johnb2004
"Rep. Dave Obey, the highly respected Wausau Democrat."

If this guy's cognitive functioning is so impaired that he actually refers to a democrat as "highly respected," of what value are his views on faith likely to be?
3 posted on 01/24/2004 6:20:38 AM PST by dsc
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To: johnb2004
Don't Burke and those fellow bishops who "congratulate" him understand how they're playing into that anti-Catholic prejudice that was so prevalent back then and could easily resurface today?

Bah!   Kennedy in essence said "Being elected is more important than my faith".  He opened the doors to what we have now, where judicial nominees are targeted, and declined because of their faith.  As if it were possible to separate the two!  Shall we turn our backs on Christ's message and follow "that other message", the "anti-Catholic" [read Anti-Christ] sentiment?  Just who is the author of that?!
Our culture is upside down!

4 posted on 01/24/2004 6:35:06 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: johnb2004
So I guess we are being implicitly threatened. Always embarrassing to hear such impoverished thought from a "Catholic" JFK. It may be that an authentically Catholic politician couldn't be elected president in 1960 and certainly not in 2004. Who cares? This is not a Catholic country so I as Catholic know my "professional ceiling" is lower. There will always be a dominant culture in a pluralistic society; we can hope for equality before the law but the highest promotions in society will be hard to come by for a Catholic in this country. It's not fair but it's real life and the blessing of the Faith should more than make up for it.
5 posted on 01/24/2004 6:45:39 AM PST by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: GirlShortstop
Its one thing not to allow one religion or another to influence ones political ruling. But lets separate religion from morality. If you belong to a faith, that frowns on immorality, and you act immorally..then that faith has no choice but to separate itself from you. If you happen to be a politician...too bad, a church or synagogue is concerned for the soul...not for the state!
6 posted on 01/24/2004 6:48:32 AM PST by mdmathis6
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To: mdmathis6
If you belong to a faith, that frowns on immorality, and you act immorally..then that faith has no choice but to separate itself from you.

Touché!  FReegards.
7 posted on 01/24/2004 7:03:13 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: johnb2004
Ironically, nearly 44 years later, Obey, himself a Catholic, has been targeted by outgoing La Crosse Diocese Bishop Raymond Burke because Obey has voted pro-choice, contrary to the church's beliefs. >>

Not contrary to the Church's beliefs. Contrary to moral law binding on all humans of all generations and which Obey is well aware of.

Obey has directly contributed to the mass murder of millions of children. Even if he weren't Catholic at all, if he converted to Episcopaganism, he'd still go to Hell for an eternity in the Lake of Fire if he didn't repent his participation in murder.
8 posted on 01/24/2004 7:07:19 AM PST by Ronly Bonly Jones (the more things change....)
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; ...
he'd still go to Hell for an eternity in the Lake of Fire if he didn't repent his participation in murder.

Lake of Fire (great analogy) bump!

9 posted on 01/24/2004 7:57:41 AM PST by NYer ("One person and God make an army." - St. Teresa of Avila)
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To: johnb2004
Dear johnb2004,

I guess the distilled message of this article is that if we Catholics wish to be loved, we just can't act Catholic.

If we remain Catholic, then we will have no one to blame but ourselves for anti-Catholic bigotry.

Got it.


sitetest
10 posted on 01/24/2004 8:04:16 AM PST by sitetest (No thanks. I don't mind so much being hated. I'd really hate not to be Catholic.)
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To: johnb2004
"sit down and shut up" bump
11 posted on 01/24/2004 8:06:26 AM PST by Dajjal
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To: johnb2004
Obey is "highly respected" in his own mind, and the alleged minds of his still-in-the-'60's supporters, all of them doing the Garfunkel inhale regularly.

Obey's district consists of a LOT of fugitive left-wing radicals who graduated from UW-Madison and who are hugging trees Up North in Wisconsin.

Most folks don't realize just how left-leaning Up North really is. Don't be fooled.
12 posted on 01/24/2004 8:49:04 AM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: sitetest; johnb2004
It is also useful to remember that Madison, WI., is "10 square miles surrounded by reality" in the words of an ex-Governor of Wisconsin, the RINO Lee Dreyfus.

Now, if a RINO thinks Madison is liberal, you have a gauge...
13 posted on 01/24/2004 8:52:11 AM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: johnb2004
As far as his non-Catholic rule, Kennedy even went as far as eating a hot dog on Good Friday at a Washington Senators' opening day game in April.

His picture, with dog in mouth made all the New York Papers. And this was pre Vatican 2
14 posted on 01/24/2004 9:26:22 AM PST by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to recieve the grace of a happy)
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To: franky
I can't understand those who deify kennedy. He was a scoundrel and he basically denied his faith.
15 posted on 01/24/2004 9:28:13 AM PST by johnb2004
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; ...
Obey is a Catholic pro-abort

Name of Legislation voted score
Agreed To Medicare Modernization Act: passage 11/21/2003 N
Passed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act: final approval by the House 10/02/2003 Y
Agreed To Coercive abortion / United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) 07/15/2003 N
Passed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act: passage 06/04/2003 Y
Failed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act: hostile motion 06/04/2003 Y
Failed Abortion in military medical facilities 05/22/2003 Y
Passed Human cloning ban: passage 02/27/2003 N
Failed Human cloning ban: hostile substitute (clone and kill) 02/27/2003 Y
Passed Abortion Non-Discrimination Act: passage 09/25/2002 Y
Failed Abortion Non-Discrimination Act: hostile motion 09/25/2002 Y
Passed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act: passage 07/24/2002 Y
Failed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act: hostile motion 07/24/2002 Y
Failed Abortion in military medical facilities 05/09/2002 Y
Passed Child Custody Protection Act: passage 04/17/2002 Y
Failed Child Custody Protection Act: hostile motion 04/17/2002 N
Passed Shays-Meehan "campaign finance reform" 02/13/2002 Y
Failed Abortion in military medical facilities 09/25/2001 Y
Passed Human cloning ban: passage 07/31/2001 N
Failed Human cloning ban: hostile motion 07/31/2001 Y
Failed Human cloning ban: hostile substitute (clone and kill) 07/31/2001 Y
Failed Abortion funding in federal prisons 07/17/2001 N
Agreed To President Bush's pro-life "Mexico City Policy" 05/16/2001 N
Passed Unborn Victims of Violence Act: passage 04/26/2001 Y
Failed Unborn Victims of Violence Act: hostile substitute 04/26/2001 Y
Representative David Obey (D-WI 7th)
18th-term Democrat from Wisconsin.
Photo: Representative Obey
ACU Ratings, Y 2000 = 4%
Key Votes
Bio & Contact Info
Send Message
Key Votes
Member Staff

16 posted on 01/24/2004 9:52:57 AM PST by Coleus (STOPP Planned Parenthood http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/892053/posts)
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To: GirlShortstop
This article parallels the poll (Zogby) from yesterday were people were identifying themselves as Americans first and Catholics second.

Sounds like the priorities are out of order! Shouldn't they look something like this?

God
Family
Work
Country
Other interests
17 posted on 01/24/2004 9:57:18 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Coleus
Their records show all, don't they? Even the warts! LOL!
18 posted on 01/24/2004 9:59:09 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: GirlShortstop
I messed up on that list. Here is the re-prioritization.

God
Family
Country
Work
Other interests
19 posted on 01/24/2004 10:00:43 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
If the author thinks that politicians should be politicians first and Christians later, he is gravely mistaken. Christianity is the belt that keeps America's pants up. We need more Christian politicians.
20 posted on 01/24/2004 10:01:26 AM PST by massiveblob
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To: johnb2004
I'm trying to figure out what difference it makes to elect "Catholic" politicians who then do all in their power to trash Christian morality. It doesn't seem to me that America is one bit better off for having elected JFK. What exactly are we supposed to have gotten out of his years of public service? And what are we getting from his brother or from Nancy Pelosi and her ilk? The country is much the worse for them.
21 posted on 01/24/2004 10:07:09 AM PST by madprof98
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To: johnb2004; St.Chuck
Some additional information:

The Deadly Dozen

Canadian Prime Minister Taunts Church: "I Am A Catholic And For Abortion"
Catholic Church asks Tom Daschle to stop calling himself a Catholic
On Catholic Politicians and Faith
Vatican Urges Catholic Politicians to Vote Along Church Lines
Senator Santorum on Being Catholic and a Politician
William E. Simon, Sr. and Jr. Devout Catholics, Philanthropists and Politicians
Deadly Dozen senator taken to task over claims of Catholicism
THE BISHOP AND THE SENATOR [author links to FR thread regarding Daschle in her online column]
Blood On Their Hands: Exposing Pro-abortion Catholic Politicians
MI Gov Granholm Proclaims June "Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Pride Month"
Colorado Governor To Media:'WE LOVE OUR CHURCH' [Gov. Bill Owens
U.S. Senator Brownback and Commentator Dick Morris Join Catholic Church
PRIEST REFUSES COMMUNION TO KNEELING PRO-LIFE POLITICIAN [Richard Black, Virginia]
Kerry [Catholic} says he'll filibuster Supreme Court nominees who do not support abortion rights
Pope to MPs: Stop gay marriage
Vatican - Considerations regarding ... homosexual persons
CONFUSIONS ABOUT POLITICAL JUDGMENT AND THE MORAL LAW
Prelate says politicians who back abortion shouldn't go to Communion
Bishop draws fire for targeting Chrétien
Kennedy likens Vatican stance on gay unions to 'bigotry' (oh, go get a job, you little creep)
Ignorance or Malicious Intent? "No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to..."
George Weigel on Authentic Catholic Citizenship, and the Duty of Catholic Politicians to Behave as Catholics
Conservative Catholics urge Church to challenge "dissenters"
[Robert F., Jr.] Kennedy to speak at Festival of Faiths (Environmentalism as religion)
Faithful Catholic Politicians
Catholic Bishops Eye Possible Crackdown of Pro-Abortion Pols
PETITION TO EX-COMMUNICATE PRO-ABORTION CATHOLIC ELECTED OFFICIALS
It is Time to Excommunicate the Politicians
Church vows to fight gay marriage: Catholics pressure pols
Should politicians toe their church line?
Church May Penalize Politicans
Catholic politicians facing dogmatic threat
Bishop appeals to Catholic lawmakers [Wisconsin]
New St. Louis Catholic Archbishop Warns Pro-Abortion Catholic Politicians of Excommunication.
Bishop Objected to AIDS Walk
Wisconsin Catholic Lawmakers Seek Victim Status In Feud With Bishop
Bishop Burke discusses the letters he sent to Catholic politicians
Congressman Places Internal Pro-Abortion Docs in Congressional Record
Flynn: Dems ignore Catholics
Granholm gay rights order "a slap in the face"
Calif. Bishop To Gov. Davis: Pick Abortion Or Communion [formal excommunication?]
California Bishop to Gov: Oppose Abortion or No Communion (New Title)
Sacramento Bishop Challenges Governor on Abortion; Tells Davis to Stop Receiving Communion
Granholm's Bible-thumping Sure to Rile GOP
Bishop: No Communion for Abortion Backers
Legislators can't have Eucharist, bishop says: Don't serve supporters of abortion rights, euthanasia
Wisc. Bishop Tells Pro-Abort. Catholic Pols: Change Your Stripes or Stay Away from Holy Communion
Diocese targets Granholm on abortion
NJ Governor McGreevey a devout Catholic, yet diplomatic {Barf Alert}
Communion ban on lawmakers who back abortion starts furor
Bishop's ban ignites church-state debate
(MI) Governor's effort is first step to give gays special benefits, weapon against religion [Granholm]
(Louisiana) LA Archbishop aims call at some Catholic politicians [Hughes]
Hughes exhorts Catholic pols to toe line
The end of Catholic politicians
Maher's Moment: A look back at Bishop Maher's Denial of Communion to a Pro-Abortion Politician [Lucy Killea]
Bishops rekindle anti-Catholic bias
TREND? "Pro-Abort Politicians "Shouldn't Dare Come to Communion", Madison Bishop Backs Burke

22 posted on 01/24/2004 11:00:46 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: johnb2004
Do they really want voters to pick candidates based on their religion?

YES! I want all faithful Christians and Jews to pick their candidates based on their religion. If we ALL based our choices on the Ten Commandments, and how well those candidates followed them in their decision making, I believe this country would be a LOT better off than it is now!

23 posted on 01/24/2004 11:36:03 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: johnb2004
My e-mail to Mr. Z:

It was one thing for JFK to say what he said in 1960 when the country was different, dare I say "mostly moral."

It's another thing for The Church to stand by idly, as it has for far too long, and watch politicians who claim to be Catholics vote consistently for, and speak out publicly in support of, laws and rulings that fail to put the brakes on the Holocaust of the unborn. Some (perhaps Mr. Obey) actively court the support of pro-abortion organizations like Planned Parenthood and NOW.

Mr. Obey, if his record is indeed pro-abortion, cannot defensibly call himself a Catholic and receive the sacraments with clean hands. Indeed, each time he does so he compounds his sinfulness. He clearly does not subscribe to one of the Church's most sacred beliefs. The most sacred beliefs of an organized religion are not arguable--they are what they are. I should add that there is no real controversy over when life begins, only debate as to whether it's okay to snuff it out before it leaves the womb.

Again if his record is pro-abort, Mr. Obey needs to be consistent and leave the Church--or better yet, confess his sins, repent, and come back to its core beliefs.

There is NO room for condoning abortion in the Church, and no room for members who are okay with it. None.

If you're worried about a "backlash," you haven't been paying attention. Anti-Catholic discrimination and ridicule are rampant. The Church, not being "of this world," can live with it, and will ultimately triumph in spite of it.
24 posted on 01/24/2004 1:34:53 PM PST by litany_of_lies
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To: johnb2004
Catholic bishops who think it's OK to hold the sacraments of their church over the heads of Catholic politicians

The bishops are not telling politicians what to do. They are running their own local churches -- period. Do you have a problem with this?

This is not a rhetorical question. I require an answer. Should bishops have the right to run their local churches, or not?

25 posted on 01/24/2004 7:48:46 PM PST by Romulus (Nothing really good ever happened after 1789.)
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To: Coleus
Thanks for the ping!
26 posted on 01/24/2004 8:46:52 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Coleus; johnb2004; Salvation; NYer; cpforlife.org; little jeremiah
Has a 60% Pro-homosexual voting record with the Gay, Human Rights Campaign, Pages 2,3,9
27 posted on 01/24/2004 9:38:41 PM PST by Coleus (STOPP Planned Parenthood http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/892053/posts)
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To: johnb2004
Yes! He did one thing and that was start the the international outreach for youth (I forgot its name)

He also started this country onto its socialism path with Medicare which Johnson's great society completed. We will be paying for this forever.

He and his families pre-election efforts proved right away his thoughts about Catholicism. Any Catholic worth his salt would not have run a campaign the way the Kennedy's did
28 posted on 01/25/2004 5:49:54 PM PST by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to recieve the grace of a happy)
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To: johnb2004
It's very thoughtful of anti-Catholic bigots like you to warn us Catholics well in advance, before you start your persecution. Oh--I forgot--you've been killing babies in America for 31 years. So the mass murder has already begun. Anyway, thanks for giving us adult Catholics some warning before you start murdering us.
29 posted on 01/28/2004 10:30:13 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: johnb2004
Kennedy's answer to the Baptist ministers was a disgrace. They should have been APPALLED rather than pleased. But their anti-Catholic bigotry trumped their common sense. They should have been horrified to hear a candidate that his religion would not affect his public acts. Only candidates who DO allow their religious beliefs to affect their public acts have any reason to avoid monstrous crimes.

Candidates who DON'T allow their religion to affect their public acts do things like murdering 45 million babies.

30 posted on 01/28/2004 10:33:16 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: johnb2004
Don't Burke and those fellow bishops who "congratulate" him understand how they're playing into that anti-Catholic prejudice that was so prevalent back then and could easily resurface today?

Of course they understand. What they're not doing is cowering in fear of it. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't easy or comfortable. Buy a ticket to Mel Gibson's upcoming flick "The Passion" if you need a reminder about that sort of thing.

(Incidentally, johnb2004, you posted this in a confusing manner. You excerpted the article in the article space, and pasted the entire thing into the space for your comments about it. I suspect a number of posters believe you to be the author of what you put in the comments section. You might want to avoid that next time.)

31 posted on 01/28/2004 10:51:35 AM PST by Snuffington
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To: Snuffington
Sorry, I messed up the post.
32 posted on 01/28/2004 10:55:28 AM PST by johnb2004
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To: Arthur McGowan; johnb2004
It's very thoughtful of anti-Catholic bigots like you to warn us Catholics well in advance, before you start your persecution.

Good afternoon Arthur.   Your comment above should probably include the name of this article's author:  Dave Zweifel.   The bigot you mention is not johnb2004, even though it could be inferred as such because of a posting mistake -see above just one or two postings.   FReegards!
33 posted on 01/28/2004 11:10:27 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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