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1 posted on 02/04/2004 4:19:03 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
OH NO, another NCR article! Actually they're OK by me, no that what I think about the origin of any article matters....

Actually I do find them interesting and they do present other considerations that in this case should be in the calculation. Whatever we Catholics do, we want to do it for God's glory and salvation of souls.

Still, on issue of abortion, as it truly is abomination, (and bishops excommunicated some over segregation), I would support approach as Bishop Burke's. Behind the scenes letters, instruction, etc. The argument that no babies lives may be saved is true, but only in short run. A 1000 mile journey starts with one step and the policy of 40 years does not appear to have yielded any "fruit" . The risks the NCR purports may be real or just a smokescreen to provide cover for the Kennedys etc that much longer. It would seem those arguments have been used for 30 years to no avail.

Speak softly Bishop Burke but use the big stick if you need to.
2 posted on 02/04/2004 4:46:31 PM PST by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: sinkspur
Well, suppose all the pro-abortion "Catholics" in America just left the Church. It would change the paper stats, and perhaps cut down on the numbers of funerals, but what other difference would it make?

It could also be a boon to the Episcopal Church, which these days seems to have lots and lots of empty room in its pews (not that these failed "Catholics" would actually attend much, except for their own funerals).

3 posted on 02/04/2004 5:10:50 PM PST by madprof98
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To: sinkspur
Of all the phony Catholics who support abortion, Cuomo is the worst. Most of the rest make no pretense of being particularly pious, but Cuomo likes to portray himself as a good Catholic--who just happens to oppose bedrock Church teaching on abortion.

The phoniness is shown by the argument Cuomo used to justify his support for abortion. He said that there was a societal consensus in favor of abortion, and that the common good dictated that he refrain from violating that consensus. Of course, Cuomo never lifted a finger to change that supposed consensus, never made any speech attempting to convince people that abortion was morally wrong, that they should change the law, even if he would not unilaterally attempt to change the law.

By contrast, Mario Cuomo regularly imposed his morality on the State of New York by vetoing legislation to allow the death penalty, even though there is much more of a consensus in favor of the death penalty (polls show over 80% of Americans favor it) than there is in support of abortion.

Mario Cuomo is a fraud, pure and simple.

4 posted on 02/04/2004 5:29:42 PM PST by Thorin
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To: sinkspur
Also Sinkspur, didn't you promise to post from NCR just on Fridays? Maybe we needed an extra penance this week after that Lefevbre thread?

Re Argument about what about Catholic politicians who favor death penalty?

I wouldn't mind seeing conservative Catholics politicians back down on that issue simply to put the Heat on those who really need it. In reality of course, it's a red herring. The Death Penalty is not anywhere near the problem that Abortion is. Its a couple of dozen convicted murderers vs millions of innocents. Who but a liberal could see significant similarity? For Catholics, death penalty is prudential issue, abortion is not.
5 posted on 02/04/2004 6:20:08 PM PST by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: sinkspur
Horan said, Interestingly, the only transgressions for which the early church communities practiced excommunication were adultery, apostasy and murder (of human beings already born). Abortion was not one of the transgressions that merited excommunication." Well, duh, apostacy is what the Law-makers are accused of. The Democratic Party--and I include the rank and file-- has set up a religious test for party candidacy.
6 posted on 02/04/2004 8:04:04 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: sinkspur; Salvation
There is no Catholic doctrine against the death penalty! These are two separate issues that the media always confuse. Quote:

"It is not correct to think of abortion and capital punishment as the very same kind of moral issue. On the one hand, direct abortion is an intrinsic evil, and cannot be justified for any purpose or in any circumstances. On the other hand, the Church has always taught that it is the right and responsibility of hte legitimate temporal authority to defend and preserve the common good, and more specifically to defend citizens against the aggressor. This defense...may resort to the death penalty if no other means of defense is sufficient. The point here is that the death penalty is understood as an act of self-defense on the part of civil society."

From the excellent small booklet, "A Brief Catechism for Catholic Voters" by Fr. Stephen F. Torraco, PhD, published by Leaflet Missal Company, St. Paul, Minnesota. I recommend it to all Catholic groups and churches to clarify not just the death penalty vs. abortion issue, but also how to inform your conscience to choose among a bunch of lousy candidates! Thanks.
8 posted on 02/04/2004 9:47:45 PM PST by enuu
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To: sinkspur


I say we should raise the stakes for pro-abortion politicians!
17 posted on 02/06/2004 1:30:36 PM PST by dangus
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