Regarding the recent survey of British priests, SHOULD WE SAY HOMOSEXUALS ARE "DISORDERED"?

Catholic Answers ^ | 2/3/04 | Karl Keathing

[dsc]

"Where is the emperical data for your assertion?"

Some psychologists have also tried to deny that schizophrenia is a mental disorder.

One strong indication that SSAD is a mental disorder is that it can be cured, through outside intervention and with great difficulty, but it cannot with success just be sworn off, as, for instance, a normal person could swear off golf or aloha shirts.

Another strong indication is the commonality of etiology. Far and away most (I won't say "all," because you can never prove the absence of a single exception) cases of SSAD are triggered by molestation or seduction in the pre-adult years. As one indication of the efficacy of such in inducing SSAD, I would point to NAMBLA's motto: "Eight is too late." The experts in recruiting new victims know quite well that molestation of a child has a good chance of inducing SSAD.

Then, too, we can look at symptoms such as compulsive behavior, coprophilia, inability to form lasting attachments, self-loathing (and no, that doesn't result from social opprobrium), sadism (boning a person in the rectum is a sadistic act), masochism (inverse of the foregoing), poor impulse control, and a very high incidence of violence, drug abuse, and suicide.

Once you look at the whole clinical picture, it becomes not merely unreasonable but irrational to deny that SSAD is a mental disorder. This is why its deletion from the DSM was achieved not through persuasion, but through threats and intimidation.

"It is a sinful style of life"

It is indeed sinful, but I wouldn't call it a "style of life." A style of death, perhaps, as it generally takes decades off the sufferer's lifespan.

"and homosexual people need to be confronted with that reality."

Rebuking sinners is one of the seven spiritual acts of mercy, but that's not going to cure anyone of SSAD. If the confrontation is part of getting them into treatment, great. If there's no followup, I doubt that there will be any lasting change in behavior.

"As long as it is called a "mental disorder," or something that is "genetic," there will be no reversal of lifestyle."

Those two things are lightyears apart. Some mental disorders are treatable, SSAD among them. The "genetic" thing is just an excuse for not seeking a cure.

Facing the fact that it is a mental disorder, a treatable mental disorder, is a first step toward (1) reducing the incidence of SSAD by denying sufferers access to the vulnerable; and (2) encouraging sufferers to get treatment that will actually change their behavior permanently.

"Yes, it will take time, but the journey of a 1000 miles begins with the first step."

I don't know how much truck you've had with people suffering from mental problems. Very little, I hope, because it's not a pleasant thing. There are two things about mental problems: (1) because it is the thinking itself that is disordered, the sufferer is usually unable to recognize that he has a problem; and (2) even if he does realize that he has a problem, he's unable to think his way out of it because his thinking *is* the problem.

The first step in dealing with a mental problem is to get help.

[NYer]

Fr. Francis' guest last night on EWTN's Life On The Rock, is a catholic psychologist (not a conundrum!). He spoke at length about homosexuality. It is treatable! One of the more successful programs he mentioned was Courage .

"Courage, an apostolate of the Roman Catholic Church, ministers to those with same-sex attractions and their loved ones. We have been endorsed by the Pontifical Council for the Family."

Courage Network

[sitetest]

Dear CathFam,

Actually, lots of folks here have roughly described this solution for some time.

I first read it by Fr. Neuhaus in "First Things".


sitetest

[RobbyS]

I would add to this that we do not know what "causes" this inclination. There are many things that might contribute. For instance a disorderly relation with one or both parents and sexual abuse, which seem more likely than an supposed "genetic" cause. Even the more likely genetic causes are suspect. If a boy is effeminate, he is more likely to be treated like a girl and to think like one than a "normal" boy.

[RobbyS]

Father Neuhaus said the solution is "Fidelity, fidelity, fidelity."

[sitetest]

Yes, he enunciated that as the first principle, but then he got a little more specific.

[Polycarp IV]

Thanks Sitetest. Some things are worth repeating.

[RobbyS]

One of the great disappointment of the past few years is my learning that so many priests have lost their faith. I wondered why the Cathyolic pols were so pro-choice. Evidently they were listening to unfaithful priests.

[dsc]

"I would add to this that we do not know what "causes" this inclination."

I think a great deal of the "we do not know" from those in the "helping" professions comes either from a conscious desire to obfuscate or an ideological or emotional unwillingness to face an ugly truth.

SSAD is a maladaptive response to the trauma of homosexual molestation or seduction. On the spiritual side, there is a Satanic or demonic component.

"For instance a disorderly relation with one or both parents ...If a boy is effeminate..."

Predators look for kids with bad relationships with their parents, and doesn't it make sense that an effeminate boy would look like a likelier prospect than the town jock? They don't develop SSAD in greater numbers because of these things; they are molested in greater numbers because of these things, and that induces SSAD.

[John O]

Catholic Answers Karl Keating: All active homosexuals should be removed from the priesthood immediately

Keating is wrong here in that he makes a distinction between active 'homosexuals' and inactive 'homosexuals'. There is no such distinction

Homosexuality is a behavior pattern (disease if you prefer) known only by its actions. There is no such thing as 'homosexual' orientation. Until a corpse of an unknown person can be reliably proved to have been 'homosexual' then 'orientation' remains merely a myth

[John O]

This perfectly explains why people may be born with homosexual inclinations, just like some people have a greater tendency towards all sorts of other crimes like alchoholism, kleptomania, pedophilia, pyromania, etc

No one is born with homosexual inclinations. Homosexuality is caused by mental trauma due to molestation, absent or insufficient relationship with one's father or by relentless teasing by ones peers during the formative years. The vast majority of cases are caused by molestation.

Of the other diseases you mention, only alcoholism has a genetic component. All the others are similarly caused by trauma of some sort.

The first law of Homosexuality:
"Homosexuals" don't reproduce, they recruit

[John O]

WELL SAID!

[John O]

Predators look for kids with bad relationships with their parents, and doesn't it make sense that an effeminate boy would look like a likelier prospect than the town jock? They don't develop SSAD in greater numbers because of these things; they are molested in greater numbers because of these things, and that induces SSAD.

Worth repeating. Excellent insight.