The Pelagian Captivity of the Church

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals ^ | R. C. Sproul

[nobdysfool]

Welll,..I guess we'll just have to refer to 'The Catholic Encyclopedia - 'Calvinism'

That makes no sense...do you go to McDonald's to get a Whopper? Do you go to a Ford dealership to buy a new Chevy? If you want to know about Calvinism, go to Calvin, and the Canons of Dordt. Otherwise, you're just getting an opinion.

Froude may be an admirer of Calvinism, but he's no Calvinist.

[CCWoody]

***HINT: Why don't you try your refutation from the Bible?***

But, individual Catholics aren't allowed to interpret the Bible. So, he must rely upon the commentaries of "Apostates" and his own Catholic commentaries. I suppose he could give me an interpretation of those.

Woody.

[drstevej]

Oh, never mind.

[Gamecock]

Impressive sophomoric rant you've linked.

[Gamecock]

Oh! I know! He can't.....

[harbingr]

Great Link from your Bio:...

'Christian Denomination Selector'...Very Accurate,...

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[fishtank]

bump

[fishtank]

"In the nineteenth century, there was a preacher who became very popular in America, who wrote a book on theology, coming out of his own training in law, in which he made no bones about his Pelagianism. He rejected not only Augustinianism, but he also rejected semi-Pelagianism and stood clearly on the subject of unvarnished Pelagianism, saying in no uncertain terms, without any ambiguity, that there was no Fall and that there is no such thing as original sin. This man went on to attack viciously the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement of Christ, and in addition to that, to repudiate as clearly and as loudly as he could the doctrine of justification by faith alone by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ. This man's basic thesis was, we don't need the imputation of the righteousness of Christ because we have the capacity in and of ourselves to become righteous. His name: Charles Finney, "


Finney is Bill Gothard's guru.

[jimtorr]

Much has been said on this thread, and my conclusion is that of the Teacher in Ecclesiastes.

Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

[connectthedots]

A serious question. Could you please identify a few Bible verses where, when read in context, there is support for the position that God gives (apparently only some) men faith in God?

All men have faith. Living life without faith in a lot of areas would be impossible without it.

[connectthedots]

Pretty good synopsis.

[Vernon]

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:16)

Sounds like a fairly accurate description of hyper-Calvinist, double predestination, huh!

[Vernon]

Excellent book...some 700+ Pages, but excellent.

[Vernon]

Excellent book...some 700+ Pages, but excellent.

[Vernon]

The following is an absolutely great analysis of John Calvins "theology" (sic) from the Catholic Encyclopedia...thanks for the reference:

Calvin gave himself out as following closely in the steps of St. Paul and St. Augustine. The Catholic teaching at Trent he judged to be Semi-Pelagian, a stigma which his disciples fix especially on the Jesuit schools, above all, on Molina. Hence the curious situation arises, that, while the Catholic consent of the East and West finds little or no acknowledgement as an historical fact among assailants of religion, the views which a single Reformer enunciated are taken as though representing the New Testament. In other words, a highly refined individual system, not traceable as a whole to any previous age, supplants the public teaching of centuries. Calvin, who hated Scholasticism, comes before us, as Luther had already done, in the shape of a Scholastic. His "pure doctrine" is gained by appealing, not to tradition, the "deposit" of faith, but to argument in abstract terms exercised upon Scripture. He is neither a critic nor a historian; he takes the Bible as something given; and he manipulates the Apostles' Creed in accordance with his own ideas. The "Institutes" are not a history of dogma, but a treatise, only not to be called an essay because of its peremptory tone. Calvin annihilates the entire space, with all its developments, which lies between the death of St. John and the sixteenth century. He does, indeed, quote St. Augustine, but he leaves out all that Catholic foundation on which the Doctor of Grace built.

[Gamecock]

Interesting how you rate higher form Mormonism than Baptist and Presbyterianism.

Having not played with all the permutations on that site I find that interesting.

[ksen]

Sorry I didn't respond to this last night....

You call irresistible grace grace free will? LOL

Um no, I call Irresistable Grace, "Irresistable Grace", and I call Free Will, "Free Will." ;^)

Its Ok come on out of the closet. :)

I'm out, and the fresh air is great!

Good night.

You too Mack.

[ksen]

You won't find it even in cork board, but I was asking about the teaching that the majority of humans are born without a hope, born to fry in hell.

Accept for the grace of God, none of us has hope, we were all born to fry in Hell. But praise God, He sent forth His Son to purchase us from the world and propitiated God's Wrath on our behalf.

[ksen]

I say it is God who knew at the moment of creation all those who would call on his name, and that there would be few.

Thanks for telling me what you say. Now let's see what the Bible says....

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Scripture is explicit when it says we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, not at its foundation.

[P-Marlowe]

we were all born to fry in Hell.

Does that include John the Baptist. I have been told by many GRPL's that John the Baptist was actually born... born again. If so then he would be an exception to that statement, eh?