Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Lost Document of Vatican II
email | unknown

Posted on 02/09/2004 12:58:43 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker

NOSTRA AETATE (Part II)

Declaration on the relation of the Church to Satan

In this age of ours, when men are are drawing more closely together and the bonds of friendship between different peoples are being strengthened, the Church examines with still greater care the relation which she has with Satan.

When God created the angels, He appointed Lucifer the "anointed Cherub" over paradise (Ezek 28:14). Since "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Rom 11:29), it follows that, by virtue of his original office, Satan shall forever enjoy a special place and dignity before God. Men always ought to show him respect therefore. Not even the Archangel Michael dared accuse him of wrongdoing (Jude 8-9). The Apostle James reminds us that Satan still possesses the virtue of faith, something that not even all men possess (see James 2:19; cf. 2 Thess 3:2). In fact, it was not Peter or any of the Apostles who first recognized and confessed Jesus' identity, but Satan and his demons (Mt 4:1ff.; 8:29; Mk 1:24). Satan has therefore retained a deep religious sense. This is especially apparent in his efforts to establish religious institutions all around the world through which men have been invited to explore the divine mystery of that One "who is in all" (Eph 4:6) and "who would have all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (1Tim 2:4)

Sounding the depths of the mystery which is the Church, this Council remembers the spiritual ties which link the people of the New Covenant to Satan. This link is most poingnantly observed in Satan's angelic nature. The Church of Christ acknowledges that in God's plan of salvation the beginning of her faith and election is to be found in the angels who were the first of all God's rational creatures (cf. Job 38:7). She also professes that in the resurrection all Christ's faithful shall become "as the angels." (Mt 22:30).

Many of the early Fathers, including Origen, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Maximus the Confessor, Didymus the Blind and Evagrius Ponticus, speculated that Satan would one day be restored to his original place in Heaven. Ought the Church to share in this hope? Perhaps not, but does it not at least strike a resonant chord deep within the human spirit?

The Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy about Satan. She has high regard for his nature, office, dignity and faith. Although she differs with him on many points of doctrine, nevertheless he often relects a ray of that truth which enlightens all God's creatures. Let Christians, while witnessing to their own faith and way of life, acknowledge, preserve and encourage the spiritual and moral truths found within the person of Satan as well as his social and religious life and culture.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Humor; Theology
KEYWORDS:
LMAO!
1 posted on 02/09/2004 12:58:47 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Maximilian; Catholicguy; NYer; sinkspur; ThomasMore; Tantumergo; ninenot; dsc; Pyro7480; ...
Whatever you position ... this was funny!

ping!
2 posted on 02/09/2004 1:01:10 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
?? Reference...
3 posted on 02/09/2004 1:02:19 PM PST by GrandEagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
I've seen people take scripture out of context before but THIS "takes the cake!"
4 posted on 02/09/2004 1:04:46 PM PST by GrandEagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Reads like an ordinary AmChurch homily.
5 posted on 02/09/2004 1:19:14 PM PST by johnb2004
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: johnb2004
Heck, these people were the ones who could feel sorry for Saddam...well, why not Satan?

6 posted on 02/09/2004 1:39:54 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: AAABEST; Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; Askel5; ...
I`m not surprised that some of the Council Fathers believed that the souls in Hell, even Satan`s, are not irretrievably damned.

I`m surprised, however, that this was even considered as a preliminary draft of Nostra Aetate even by some mischievous modernist peritus.

Paul VI must have hit the roof when this was presented to him, especially because this particular issue wasn`t debated. Does anyone have any further information on the authenticity or falseness of this document?

8 posted on 02/09/2004 2:06:19 PM PST by Loyalist (Tony Clement for Leader: Conservative Party of Canada!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Loyalist
It's a joke, for heaven's sake.

And a pretty good one, I have to admit.

9 posted on 02/09/2004 2:10:30 PM PST by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: livius
Heck, these people were the ones who could feel sorry for Saddam...well, why not Satan?

Yeah.. remember that jerk! LOL

I had mixed feelings about the war but could not for the life of me figure how anyone couldn't possibly feel bad about Saddamizer being in captivity and having his teeth checked.

That guy was in dire need of a swirly.

10 posted on 02/09/2004 2:20:23 PM PST by AAABEST (<a href="http://www.sspx.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
LOL. But let's not enjoy the humor too complacently. I wouldn't put it past Cardinal Kasper or some others to release this document. Maybe it's in reserve for "Vatican III."
11 posted on 02/09/2004 2:33:10 PM PST by Maximilian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
There is no connection between the Church and Satan. This is a twist attempt at legal mumo jumbo at best. We are Sons and Daughters of God, angelic in appearance. The angel in heaven or hell are God creation of creatures that serve the Lord purpose and have no relation other than serving God's divine purpose. Which no doubt piss off satan. For satan(no matter how high his office is) is a servant and we are the children that inherit the Kingdom of God.
No matter how satan uses legal mumo jumbo, it all trying to deceive man and steal from man the gift of God, Jesus Christ.
12 posted on 02/09/2004 2:46:55 PM PST by Warlord David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Warlord David
This is a twist attempt at legal mumo jumbo at best.

This is a parody of a similar document from Vatican II.

13 posted on 02/09/2004 3:28:54 PM PST by Maximilian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Loyalist; AAABEST; Campion; Maximilian; sandyeggo; Hermann the Cherusker
'DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS NOSTRA AETATE'
... PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

Excerpt:...

'...Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language.
Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust.
Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites.
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.
Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)

14 posted on 02/09/2004 3:49:54 PM PST by harbingr (Para #3 Excerpt: 'The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God,...')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: harbingr
Gee that's comforting. Nice to know everyone in Rome is so friendly to Buddists, Muslims and Hindus.

Never mind traditional worship, let's fly away somewhere or pet buddah's stomach.

Let me try to find it in scripture first so we can do this right though. Flying away can be dangerous (being so high up and all) so I want see what Jesus has to say about it first. I wouldn't want to make the Buddah angry either.

15 posted on 02/09/2004 4:05:02 PM PST by AAABEST (<a href="http://www.sspx.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Also from Vatican webSite...

THE ROOTS OF ANTI-JUDAISM IN THE CHRISTIAN ENVIRONMENT NOSTRA AETATE: A MILESTONE...by Pier Francesco Fumagalli

16 posted on 02/09/2004 4:20:30 PM PST by harbingr (excerpt..'Words of fervent esteem and of reconciliation are reserved in particular for the Moslems')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Campion
I spent all this time looking up these references. Well, at least I'll sleep better (at least once my blood pressure goes down). :O)

PS-I wonder how many people just accepted the references? They clearly don't make support the argument made but it sure looked good.
17 posted on 02/09/2004 4:57:12 PM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Campion
"It's a joke, for heaven's sake."

I have seen so much come out of the hierarchy in the past 40 years that I thought couldn't be real but was.
I guess you could fool me with just about anything now-a-days.
18 posted on 02/09/2004 5:22:35 PM PST by rogator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
"Whatever you position ... this was funny!"

Too funny!!

I was thinking how hilarious that some people were taken in by this and thought that it could be real.

But then it struck me...............
19 posted on 02/09/2004 6:02:55 PM PST by Tantumergo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Maximilian
Thanks, But i did not even have a clue that it was a parody at all for any document, let a lone the Vatican II.
Just old fashion saying. Thank Again
20 posted on 02/09/2004 7:33:33 PM PST by Warlord David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker; Maximilian; narses; Land of the Irish; Loyalist
Did Bugnini and Weakland drop acid during Vatican II maybe (and come up with this)?
21 posted on 02/09/2004 9:03:59 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Has anyone put together an annotated anthology of rejected or non-included drafts and documents presented and submitted at Vatican II, or shortly afterwards? That would be some fascinating read to peruse. Imagine comparing Ottaviani with Kungian type fluff.
22 posted on 02/09/2004 9:06:51 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Maximilian
I would expect something lke this to surface in the writings of the insane sspx prelate Williamson. One who bears such venomous enmity against the Jews is in league with the Devil.
23 posted on 02/10/2004 6:53:00 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Catholicguy
I would expect something lke this to surface in the writings of the insane sspx prelate Williamson. One who bears such venomous enmity against the Jews is in league with the Devil.

Truly bizarre statement. Did you forget to take your Ritalin today?

24 posted on 02/10/2004 4:15:02 PM PST by autopsy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: autopsy
Williamson is quite anti-semitic. Surely you know that.
25 posted on 02/10/2004 4:40:07 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Williamson is quite anti-semitic. Surely you know that.

I don't think that's true.

26 posted on 02/10/2004 4:55:27 PM PST by autopsy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson