Critics say Gibson film mimics a hateful book

Read your own post that is clearly what you said.

"This is what the liberal Jews warned us would happen. They said the RightWing or Conservative Christian supporters could not be trusted, that they would eventually turn on Israel and the Jewish people when their religious views were challenged or not accepted_."

You must not know who is in control, according to what is Written our Heavenly Father is in control.

I am very well aware of the "accusers" method of operation.

I have read the OLD and the NEW Testament, I don't need to see a movie to be taught.

I am a bit curious if the movie will show the miracle written about "the veil of the Temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;

Christ set the path for Christians to follow and if you will read what Christ said then you can for yourself figure out if what is being done in HIS name is what HE said to do.

Christ taught from the OLD, he made the OLD part of the NEW. As prophesied throughout the OLD like Psalms 22 and many many other places the events took place just as they were written.

You have every right to believe whatever you choose to believe. You do not have the right to deny others the same opportunity.

You have every right to believe whatever you choose to believe. You do not have the right to deny others the same opportunity.

Good, then you will join with me in condemning their most Catholic Majesties Ferdinand and Isabella as heretics and war criminals. Mel can join us and make a movie.

(1) King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, by the grace of God, King and Queen of Castile, Leon, Aragon, Sicily, Granada, Toledo, Valencia, Galicia, the Balearic Islands, Seville, Sardinia, Cordoba, Corsica, Murcia, Jaen, of the Algarve, Algeciras, Gibraltar, and of the Canary Islands, count and countess of Barcelona and lords of Biscay and Molina, dukes of Athens and Neopatria, counts of Rousillon and Cerdana, marquises of Oristan and of Gociano, to the prince Lord Juan, our very dear and muched love son, and to the other royal children, prelates, dukes, marquees, counts, masters of military orders, priors, grandees, knight commanders, governors of castles and fortified places of our kingdoms and lordships, and to councils, magistrates, mayors, constables, district judges, knights, official squires, and all good men of the noble and loyal city of Burgos and other cities, towns, and villages of its bishopric and of other archbishoprics, bishoprics, dioceses of our kingdom and lordships, and to the residential quarters of the Jews of the said city of Burgos and of all the aforesaid cities, towns, and villages of its bishopric and of the other cities, towns, and villages of our aforementioned kingdoms and lordships, and to all Jews and to all individual Jews of those places, and to barons and women of whatever age they may be, and to all other persons of whatever law, estate, dignity, preeminence, and condition they may be, and to all to whom the matter contained in this charter pertains or may pertain. Salutations and grace.

(2) You know well or ought to know, that whereas we have been informed that in these our kingdoms there were some wicked Christians who Judaized and apostatized from our holy Catholic faith, the great cause of which was interaction between the Jews and these Christians, in the cortes which we held in the city of Toledo in the past year of one thousand, four hundred and eighty, we ordered the separation of the said Jews in all the cities, towns and villages of our kingdoms and lordships and [commanded] that they be given Jewish quarters and separated places where they should live, hoping that by their separation the situation would remedy itself. Furthermore, we procured and gave orders that inquisition should be made in our aforementioned kingships and lordships, which as you know has for twelve years been made and is being made, and by many guilty persons have been discovered, as is very well known, and accordingly we are informed by the inquisitors and by other devout persons, ecclesiastical and secular, that great injury has resulted and still results, since the Christians have engaged in and continue to engage in social interaction and communication they have had means and ways they can to subvert and to steal faithful Christians from our holy Catholic faith and to separate them from it, and to draw them to themselves and subvert them to their own wicked belief and conviction, instructing them in the ceremonies and observances of their law, holding meetings at which they read and teach that which people must hold and believe according to their law, achieving that the Christians and their children be circumcised, and giving them books from which they may read their prayers and declaring to them the fasts that they must keep, and joining with them to read and teach them the history of their law, indicating to them the festivals before they occur, advising them of what in them they are to hold and observe, carrying to them and giving to them from their houses unleavened bread and meats ritually slaughtered, instructing them about the things from which they must refrain, as much in eating as in other things in order to observe their law, and persuading them as much as they can to hold and observe the law of Moses, convincing them that there is no other law or truth except for that one. This proved by many statements and confessions, both from these same Jews and from those who have been perverted and enticed by them, which has redounded to the great injury, detriment, and opprobrium of our holy Catholic faith.

(3) Notwithstanding that we were informed of the great part of this before now and we knew that the true remedy for all these injuries and inconveniences was to prohibit all interaction between the said Jews and Christians and banish them from all our kingdoms, we desired to content ourselves by commanding them to leave all cities, towns, and villages of Andalusia where it appears that they have done the greatest injury, believing that that would be sufficient so that those of other cities, towns, and villages of our kingdoms and lordships would cease to do and commit the aforesaid acts. And since we are informed that neither that step nor the passing of sentence [of condemnation] against the said Jews who have been most guilty of the said crimes and delicts against our holy Catholic faith have been sufficient as a complete remedy to obviate and correct so great an opprobrium and offense to the faith and the Christian religion, because every day it is found and appears that the said Jews increase in continuing their evil and wicked purpose wherever they live and congregate, and so that there will not be any place where they further offend our holy faith, and corrupt those whom God has until now most desired to preserve, as well as those who had fallen but amended and returned to Holy Mother Church, the which according to the weakness of our humanity and by diabolical astuteness and suggestion that continually wages war against us may easily occur unless the principal cause of it be removed, which is to banish the said Jews from our kingdoms. Because whenever any grave and detestable crime is committed by members of any organization or corporation, it is reasonable that such an organization or corporation should be dissolved and annihilated and that the lesser members as well as tile greater and everyone for the others be punished, and that those who perturb the good and honest life of cities and towns and by contagion can injure others should be expelled from those places and even if for lighter causes, that may be injurious to the Republic, how Much more for those greater and most dangerous and most contagious crimes such as this.

(4) Therefore, we, with the counsel and advice of prelates, great noblemen of our kingdoms, and other persons of learning and wisdom of our Council, having taken deliberation about this matter, resolve to order the said Jews and Jewesses of our kingdoms to depart and never to return or come back to them or to any of them. And concerning this we command this our charter to be given, by which we order all Jews and Jewesses of whatever age they may be, who live, reside, and exist in our said kingdoms and lordships, as much those who are natives as those who are not, who by whatever manner or whatever cause have come to live and reside therein, that by the end of the month of July next of the present year, they depart from all of these our said realms and lordships, along with their sons and daughters, menservants and maidservants, Jewish familiars, those who are great as well as the lesser folk, of whatever age they may be, and they shall not dare to return to those places, nor to reside in them, nor to live in any part of them, neither temporarily on the way to somewhere else nor in any other manner, under pain that if they do not perform and comply with this command and should be found in our said kingdom and lordships and should in any manner live in them, they incur the penalty of death and the confiscation of all their possessions by our Chamber of Finance, incurring these penalties by the act itself, without further trial, sentence, or declaration. And we command and forbid that any person or persons of the said kingdoms, of whatever estate, condition, or dignity that they may be, shall dare to receive, protect, defend, nor hold publicly or secretly any Jew or Jewess beyond the date of the end of July and from henceforth forever, in their lands, houses, or in other parts of any of our said kingdoms and lordships, under pain of losing all their possessions, vassals, fortified places, and other inheritances, and beyond this of losing whatever financial grants they hold from us by our Chamber of Finance.

(5) And so that the said Jews and Jewesses during the stated period of time until the end of the said month of July may be better able to dispose of themselves, and their possession, and their estates, for the present we take and receive them under our Security, protection, and royal safeguard, and we secure to them and to their possessions that for the duration of the said time until the said last day of the said month of July they may travel and be safe, they may enter, sell, trade, and alienate all their movable and rooted possessions and dispose of them freely and at their will, and that during the said time, no one shall harm them, nor injure them, no wrong shall be done to them against justice, in their persons or in their possessions, under the penalty which falls on and is incurred by those who violate the royal safeguard. And we likewise give license and faculty to those said Jews and Jewesses that they be able to export their goods and estates out of these our said kingdoms and lordships by sea or land as long as they do not export gold or silver or coined money or other things prohibited by the laws of our kingdoms, excepting merchandise and things that are not prohibited.

(6) And we command all councils, justices, magistrates, knights, squires, officials, and all good men of the said city of Burgos and of the other cities, towns, and villages of our said kingdoms and lordships and all our new vassals, subjects, and natives that they preserve and comply with and cause to be preserved and complied with this our charter and all that is contained in it, and to give and to cause to be given all assistance and favor in its application under penalty of [being at] our mercy and the confiscation of all their possessions and offices by our Chamber of Finance. And because this must be brought to the notice of all, so that no one may pretend ignorance, we command that this our charter be posted in the customary plazas and places of the said city and of the principal cities, towns, and villages of its bishopric as an announcement and as a public document. And no one shall do any damage to it in any manner under penalty of being at our mercy and the deprivation of their offices and the confiscation of their possessions, which will happen to each one who might do this. Moreover, we command the [man] who shows them this our charter that he summon [those who act against the charter] to appear before us at our court wherever we may be, on the day that they are summoned during the fifteen days following the crime under the said penalty, under which we command whichever public scribe who would be called for the purpose of reading this our charter that the signed charter with its seal should be shown to you all so that we may know that our command is carried out.

(7) Given in our city of Granada, the XXXI day of the month of March, the year of the birth of our lord Jesus Christ one thousand four hundred and ninety-two years.

I, the King, I the Queen,

I, Juan de Coloma, secretary of the king and queen our lords, have caused this to be written at their command.

Registered by Cabrera, Almacan chancellor.

I have read the OLD and the NEW Testament

That I believe, but what's up with this "NET TESTMENT" you want me to read ?

This nonsense that a depiction of the Gospels is "hate speech" is coming from secular, liberal so-called Jews and Christians. Many of these Christians, like Crossan, deny Christ's divinity and deny the authority of the Bible. Most of the Jewish critics are Reformed or Conservative, whom many Israelis consider not to be practicing Jews.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the attacks on Gibson and the Passion are not coming from Israel or our Jewish friends and allies, but, as usual, from the lefties who are trying destroy the foundation of the judeo-christian faiths.

I condemn evil anywhere and everwhere, past, present, and future.

Now you go read the New Testament so you will know in the future if one who claims to be Christian is actually doing what Christ said they should be doing.

Each individual will be held account for their own beliefs.
We won't be taking our preachers/teachers/priests to answer for us on that Judgment Day.

Some seemed to be worried about what Christians do in the name of Christ.

Unless and until you read what Christ said you will not be able to know if one who claims to be Christian are actually follow what He said to do.

Inform yourself.

Please read this review before deciding what Mel did or did not include from this text.

I was going to post it as it's own thread, but haven't had time and I see that it's germaine to this discussion.

Yet rage directed against a few American Jews easily transfers to rage against many American Jews and Israel.

I don't believe this is true, and I wouldn't characterize a nasty remark as "rage" either. You may, if you wish, of course.

follow = following

"I'm beginning to get so outraged

Rage is a derivative of outrage.

Is this scene described in the book ?

I don't know if that scene is in that text, but check out this review with some "new" insight into scenes that were taken from this text, and stuff from the text that was not used in the movie:

Steven Greydanus' review of The Passion of The Christ

Rage is a derivative of outrage.

The common use of the term should alert you that it is mostly used as a figure of speech. Pick nits if you wish.

hey buddy, you need to get in touch with the real cause of all this angst. the REAL reason there is jewish fear of this movie is driven by jewish fear that JEWS will get the message of the messiah. the Christians got it 2 thousand years ago. go ahead - say it ain't so........

I disagree. The real reason there is "jewish fear" is that so many Jews have died at the hands of those who "claimed the name."

First, notwithstanding at-times exaggerated claims of historical accuracy and fidelity to the gospels from some of the film’s defenders, The Passion of the Christ is not an attempt to depict the sufferings of Christ exactly as described in the New Testament. Rather, while following the basic outline of the passion narratives, the film is an imaginative, at times poetic reflection on the meaning of the gospel story in light of sacred tradition and Catholic theology.

Okay, that makes sense. It is a movie.

"Here's one example. There's this whole brutal scene in the movie in which Jesus' captors hang him over a bridge by chains and then yank him back up again," Rudin said. "That's nowhere in the New Testament. Where did it come from?"

Wow. So I guess that's worse than the crucifixion itself.

And the entire description of Jesus' scourging amounts to a few words in the ancient Greek texts of the gospels.

Wow, so I guess that means it only lasted a few seconds.

This doesn't mean that the entire Jewish populace at that time should be blamed, and it certainly doesn't mean that Jews throughout history should be blamed as a people. What is the big deal here? It was history, it was preordained by God to happen, and we are ALL guilty because of our sin nature. You and me and everybody on the planet are the reason that Jesus was crucified. WE are the cause.

Very well put, and spot on!

Honestly, newbie, I couldn't care less whether you "trust" me or not.

If Foxman et al are in the minority, then where are the conservative Jews to oppose him? Where are the Jewish supporters of Gibson?

And if Foxman truly represents a majority viewpoint in American Judaism, then tell me again why evangelicals should fall automatically into line behind Israel?