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QUESTIONING 'PASSION' AND THE GOSPEL TRUTH (crossing over into Christian-hating)
NY POST ^ | February 21, 2004 | LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

Posted on 02/21/2004 2:55:03 AM PST by Liz

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:19:41 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

A movie about the Gospel sparks outrage, but movies that depict graphic sexual activity, romanticize criminals and constantly bombard us with violence are not criticized. If those movies are released without outrage, let he who is without sin cast the first stone against Gibson. Mary Maresco Sarasota, Fla.


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To: R. Scott
Sorry, I refuse to “hate” unless there is a real driving deep seated reason. “Hate” is a very strong emotion - possibly the strongest one we have. I will “disagree” or “dislike”, but not hate - no matter how politically correct it may be today.

Well said.

41 posted on 02/21/2004 6:00:36 AM PST by Steve0113 (Stay to the far right to get by.)
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To: veronica
The fact is that some reviewers, NOT JEWISH, have found fault with Mel Gibson, and the manner in which he has promoted his film. Will they too be branded as anti-Christian for commenting on this angle of the movie, or on the movie itself?

Of course they will. Besides, just like anti-Semitism, it isn't mere fault-finding, but the nature of those perceived faults that is so bothersome.

42 posted on 02/21/2004 6:03:21 AM PST by wimpycat ("Black holes are where God divided by zero.")
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To: kcvl
Is the evangelical support because it's Foxman who is griping about the film or the film's strict adherence to the scriptures?
43 posted on 02/21/2004 6:03:44 AM PST by joesbucks
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To: R. Scott
Hey, its OK to hate sin and its purveyors.
44 posted on 02/21/2004 6:12:32 AM PST by DonnerT (Any compromise with evil is capitulation.!)
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To: Liz
So you - along with many others - have devalued the word “hate” to the point where it is no more than an attention getting expression.
What term do you use when you wish to express actual real hatred?
45 posted on 02/21/2004 6:17:33 AM PST by R. Scott (My cynicism rises with the proximity of the elections.)
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To: DonnerT
As I stated - I reserve the term for something I actually hate. It is not a term I use lightly.
46 posted on 02/21/2004 6:19:36 AM PST by R. Scott (My cynicism rises with the proximity of the elections.)
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To: Liz
I don't hear any body from real life (people I know, work with, share meals with, across the counter at the gas station, etc...) complaining about the movie. It's sort of like all the wailing when that Kennedy guy and his chick had that plane crash. I never did meet someone who cared to the extent that the "World News Tonight" cared.

It's a lot of noise coming from a very small, albiet very loud, squeeky wheel. And if I ever heard someone complaining about the movie it would be my opportunity to smugly say, "Well if you don't like it, you don't have to watch it."
47 posted on 02/21/2004 6:20:39 AM PST by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: veronica
What's the difference between Abe Foxman, David Duke, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?
48 posted on 02/21/2004 6:24:33 AM PST by kcvl
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To: joesbucks
As a Southern Baptist, I can say it's the scriptural accuracy of the film that has gained the film evangelical support. Evangelicals are really big on going only by the Bible, the scriptures as sole authority on the Christian religion. That, of course, is a fundamental difference evangelicals have with Catholics. Let's put it another way; if the Southern Baptist Convention or someone like Billy Graham thought there was something "wrong", scripturally speaking, with the movie, the evangelicals would be leading the charge against the film, just like with "The Last Temptation of Christ". They would be accusing Mel, this worldly Hollywood star who is also some weird sort of *gasp*, Catholic (spit, spit!) of toying with scripture, of trying to 'sex up' the Gospels, just like Hollywood always tries to pervert everything decent, dontcha know. But, since the movie is faithful to the Gospel accounts, and since the main thrust of Foxman's attacks are aimed at the content of the film, the perception is that it's not Mel Gibson, but the Gospels themselves, and those who take the Gospels as...well, gospel truth, that are under attack.
49 posted on 02/21/2004 6:27:37 AM PST by wimpycat ("Black holes are where God divided by zero.")
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To: joesbucks
I can't speak for anyone but me and it's because of my faith. It has nothing to do with Foxman except that he is trashing it. I don't appreciate that because I support the Jewish people. I always have but it doesn't seem to matter to them about trashing my faith. I would think the same if it was Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell trashing the Jewish faith because they don't speak for me.
50 posted on 02/21/2004 6:32:39 AM PST by kcvl
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To: wimpycat
if the Southern Baptist Convention or someone like Billy Graham thought there was something "wrong", scripturally speaking, with the movie, the evangelicals would be leading the charge against the film

Speak for yourself, because you have no idea what I think.

51 posted on 02/21/2004 6:36:22 AM PST by kcvl
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To: Caipirabob
You are so right. The opposition to this movie is due to the unseen forces of evil who KNOW the impact this movie will have, and will stop at nothing to destroy Mel and the movie.

Has anyone connected the dots between this movie and the homosexual marriages? In my opinion, there is a swell of demonic activity that is rising in pure hatred of this evil, and one evidence of that is what is happening in San Francisco.

52 posted on 02/21/2004 6:39:42 AM PST by Haddon
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To: Liz
Are these the same people who, if we object to Hollyweird's gratuitous violence and sexual perversion which is polluting our culture, smirk and haughtily tell us to "just turn it OFF if you don't like it!"?
53 posted on 02/21/2004 6:39:45 AM PST by Gritty
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To: kcvl
Speak for yourself, because you have no idea what I think.

Pardon moi!

54 posted on 02/21/2004 6:42:08 AM PST by wimpycat ("Black holes are where God divided by zero.")
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To: Caipirabob
You are so right. The opposition to this movie is due to the unseen forces of evil who KNOW the impact this movie will have, and will stop at nothing to destroy Mel and the movie.

Has anyone connected the dots between this movie and the homosexual marriages? In my opinion, there is a swell of demonic activity that is rising in pure hatred of this movie, and one evidence of that is what is happening in San Francisco.

55 posted on 02/21/2004 6:42:26 AM PST by Haddon
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To: Liz
What this article claims is as a matter of fact, false!

There was no Gentile Christianity of any size in existence yet when the Gospels were written. The believers were just as much Jews [ethnically and by faith] as their mortal enemies the Pharisees were.

The authors were themselves Jews [Luke is now understood to have already been a convert to Judaism, or perhaps his PARENTS had been, before he met St Paul and embraced Jesus as the Messiah.], who had fled Israel because of the terrible war, the First Jewish Revolt of AD 66-73.

There were earlier notes and source materials [no longer extant] in Hebrew and Greek, but the best scholarship now is, that these were written in their final form as we have them by:

Mark, c 60-75 AD, Italy or having just fled from Italy because of the persecution under Nero Caesar.

Matthew, c 72-84 AD, Egypt having just fled from Israel.

Luke, c 78- 92 AD, probably Antioch, or certainly in what we now call Turkey and its offshore islands.

John, c 100 AD, Ephesus, now on W coast of Turkey S of Izmir. This book is an as-told-to because although John was a highly educated priest and a kinsman of Jesus, his Greek was a little rough, as shown in Revelation which he DID write with his own hand.
56 posted on 02/21/2004 6:51:16 AM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: wimpycat
As a Southern Baptist, you must be proud of your trashy remark. You sound more like a seminar caller on C-Span; "as a Conservative Republican, I hate George Bush".
57 posted on 02/21/2004 6:52:57 AM PST by kcvl
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To: kcvl
What in the world are you talking about??!! You have obviously misunderstood me. My #49 and your #50 state essentially the same thing. Exactly what did I say that was so upsetting to you?
58 posted on 02/21/2004 6:55:54 AM PST by wimpycat ("Black holes are where God divided by zero.")
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To: kcvl
I would not put Foxman, Jesse or Al in the same (low) class as David Duke. Abe Foxman does some good, but is way off-base on other things. Jesse is a poverty pimp and hustler. Sharpton is a hustler and a clown. David Duke is for all intents and purposes a Neo-Nazi. He's also in jail for embezzlement.
59 posted on 02/21/2004 6:57:24 AM PST by veronica ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people." GW Bush 1-20-04)
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To: wimpycat
This is staying true to the gospels?

Gibson is not merely telling the Gospel account, but adds to it in ways that consistently accent the culpability of Jews and mitigate that of the Romans. He adds violent beatings of Jesus--by Jews--that are not in Scripture. He changes the entire feel of the story as the Gospels tell it. In the Scriptural account, Jesus is snatched quietly, at night, to avoid the crowds. Jesus is willing to go quietly, and keeps the disciples from fighting back. He is held while the high priest gathers his council. During it, there is some physical abuse by the guards and some taunting and one slapping of his face, but the Evangelists don't elaborate on this or draw it out. Then he is delivered to Pilate. Gibson changes the tenor of all these scenes, making them more dramatic, more violent, more frightening. He also adds scenes that contradict explicit statements in Scripture. According to John, the Jews refuse to enter the Praetorium. No Jew--not even a disciple--is depicted as present in the Praetorium. But Gibson has them there.

In Mel's version, the beating of Jesus begins immediately upon his arrest, contrary to the Gospels. He is wrapped in chains, and at one point thrown off a bridge. These added beatings, by Jews, and the behavior of the Jews in subsequent scenes, make them a bloodthirsty, barbarous people--the only exceptions being those who believe in Jesus or are sympathetic to his cause. Jews are depicted in customary stereotypes, as greedy and money-grubbing, who can be easily bought off in the middle of the night. The Jewish leaders are seen as the equals of or more powerful than the Romans, which is contrary to history. The Jewish high priest at the time was a Roman appointee, answerable to Pilate--not in Mel's version, though.

The Jewish violence which began in the garden is unleashed without mercy in the court of the high priest. Jesus arrives, a bruised and bloody mess--perhaps a hundred people are crammed into the room, anxious for the spectacle to begin. Immediately after the "trial," the priests take turns hitting and spitting on Jesus, and then the guards and observers join in, beating him with sadistic glee. In this melee Peter, who is in the room itself, is grabbed and manhandled, and accused of being a follower of Jesus.

Gibson's Pilate is a weak and indecisive administrator who grouses about the rabble and about being stuck in this stinking outpost. When the excessively large crowd gathers in the courtyard of the Praetorium, Pilate goes out and, seeing Jesus for the first time, is disgusted by what the Jews have done. He asks the priests, “Do you always punish them before you judge them?” In the scenes which follow, Pilate appears as a lone and weak representative of Rome, with inadequate troops at his disposal, not the brutal governor know from history. He muses, “If I don’t condemn him, Caiaphas will rebel. If I do, his followers will. Either way there will be bloodshed.” Soldiers inform him that there is already an uprising. The priests, temple guards, and people are growing ugly. But instead of putting them in their place, as the historical Pilate would have done, they are appeased.

Pilate decides to have Jesus beaten, thinking this will satisfy the bloodlust of the Jews. Jesus is taken within. The leading priests go in, watching through a gate--but clearly on Roman soil, contrary to the Gospels. Jesus is beaten first with rods until he collapses. There’s a pause. Jesus stands. The Romans are perturbed. They get the flagella. One hits the table—the metal embedded in the strands of the whip sticks fast in the surface of the table. They begin to apply it to Jesus’ back. It sticks, and rips skin away. The violence goes on longer than any human could withstand. The camera lingers, fascinated, voyeuristic. The only breaks are to follow Mary as she leaves the scene, unable to watch any more (yes, she is there--and she will wipe up the blood afterwards, using towels given to her by Pilate's wife).

A Roman comes and orders them to stop: “You were ordered to punish him, not to scourge him to death.” This is but the first instance where Romans are depicted as having a conscience, or at least a limit to what they will inflict on a person. The Jews have none. The Romans are egged on by Satan, wandering through the crowd--the Jews need no such encouragement.

In the version I saw, after Pilate gives in to their demands the crowd shouts, gleefully, “His blood be upon us and our children.” Pilate gives up, and says to his men, “Do as they wish.” Rumors say Mel has taken this line out. That's good, as it was traditionally understood by Christians to extend the guilt for Deicide through history to contemporary Jews; but it doesn't minimize the exaggerated depiction of the Jews that we've endured to this point. And more is to come.

The procession to Calvary appears to be a religious event, led by priests riding donkeys; flashbacks recall Palm Sunday. The crowds lining the road this time are hostile and merciless, berating and pummeling Jesus as he passes. The Romans beat them back. Arriving at Calvary, Jesus is nailed to the cross--again, the violence is exaggerated and excessive, with the camera lingering over the scene as the cross is flipped over, with Jesus face down; blood dripping; the protruding ends of the nails are bent over, and then the cross is flipped over the other way.

A thief taunts Jesus to save himself and them. The crowd joins in the taunting, as does the High Priest, who says, “If he is the Messiah, let him come down that we may believe.” Caiaphas walks around as if he is the senior official presiding over the execution. He does not protest at the sign nailed to the cross by the Romans. There is no division of roles here--they are doing his bidding.

When Jesus prays, "Father, forgive them," the good thief says (as in Scripture), “Listen, he prays for you. We deserve this, but he doesn’t. Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom” Jesus promises that he will be in paradise. The bad thief, Gesmas, laughs. A crow drops from heaven and pecks out his eyes. Hardly an answer to that prayer for forgiveness, is it?

The sky darkens, and the priests leave. The Romans let Mary approach. Throughout, they've shown her sympathy, assisting her in the crowd, casting nervous glances at her, talking amongst themselves.

Jesus dies. The camera looks down on Calvary. A drop of rain condenses, and the camera follows it down to the ground. It hits with explosive force, and an earthquake rocks the hill. Pilate is rattled. The temple is hit hardest; a chasm opens in the floor, and rocks fall on the priests. The sense is clearly one of divine judgment (like the crow eating the eyes of the thief). The drop of rain is like a divine tear; we see a picture of God as grieving in human fashion, his grief quickly turning to anger, and lashing out, not at the Romans, but at the Jews, and particularly at the Jewish religious authorities.

It is an awful depiction, and recalls the worst of medieval passion plays. Yet most of the Christians in the usually select audiences that have seen it so far are oblivious to these things. Even a handful of politically conservative Jewish commentators claim to have seen nothing problematic. But those Jews who have seen it who are not predisposed to be generous to Mel have been shocked by the portrayal. A special screening in Houston included local Jewish community members and representatives of the national offices of the ADL and American Jewish Committee. All had similar reactions. They sat like strangers in the auditorium, unable to understand the emotional reactions of the Christians around them, and unable to understand, when they spoke with those Christians later, how they could have missed the parts of the film that so troubled the Jews.

Thoughts?

60 posted on 02/21/2004 6:59:12 AM PST by joesbucks
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