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Lithuania Lowers Age of Consent for Homosexual Sex to 14
Life Site ^ | 3/1/2004 | LifeSiteNews.com

Posted on 03/02/2004 7:55:26 PM PST by Land of the Irish

Lithuania Lowers Age of Consent for Homosexual Sex to 14
Passed legislation to conform with "UN Child's Right Convention"

VILNIUS, March 1, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Lithuanian government led by Prime Minister Algirdas Brazauskas has accepted a proposal pushed by the international Gay and Lesbian Association to lower the age of consent for homosexual sex acts with boys to 14.

The government of the mostly Catholic European country passed the legislation in line with the "UN Child's Right Convention Realization Account" and forwarded a copy of the acceptance of the legislation to the UN Child rights Committee, according to LifeSiteNews.com sources in Lithuania.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholic; children; homosexual; lithuania; un
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1 posted on 03/02/2004 7:55:26 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; attagirl; ...
Ping
2 posted on 03/02/2004 7:56:43 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
Well, I certainly am glad that Lithuanian boys now have a right to be buggered. This is giant leap forward for human rights and freedom. Good work, U.N.

Say, Kofi: do you think you could send someone by to give *my* sons a good reaming? I want to make sure their rights are protected.

But really, this is irrelevant, since we all know that men with SSAD don't prey on youth.
3 posted on 03/02/2004 9:13:07 PM PST by dsc
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To: dsc; Land of the Irish
Does it seem to you, like it does to me, that the world is falling in on us?

Holy Spirit, stand with us!
4 posted on 03/02/2004 9:19:16 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Land of the Irish

PRAYER TO ST. MICHAEL
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in Battle; Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, who prowl through the world, seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen

5 posted on 03/02/2004 9:19:53 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: dsc
Good work, U.N.

Better watch the sarcasm of a "sacred" institution.

The Pope instructs us to look towards the UN for guidance. You may be accused of schism, both from the UN and Rome.

6 posted on 03/02/2004 9:21:30 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
This is awful.
7 posted on 03/02/2004 11:36:59 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
I feel sick. Particularly when I think that, judging by the pattern we have seen in the last few years, this will probably become the worldwide norm in about - oh, two years.

The Muslims should like it, however, since this has always been one of their favorite pastimes, and was one of the reasons depraved American and European literati were always running off to Morocco to dabble in boys. It will just make it all that much easier for Europe to adjust to becoming Islamic (give that a little longer, say 10 years).
8 posted on 03/03/2004 3:34:03 AM PST by livius
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To: Land of the Irish
A couple of weeks ago I was doing some research on homosexual marriage and I came across stats compiled by the EU listing the percentages of opposition and the percentages of disagreement. It was broken down by level of education, religious belief, age and country. The level of acceptance is staggering, particularly in well educated females. No real discernable difference in those who profess no religion to those who profess believing in God. The study was furthered by polling those in countries NOT in the EU but who want admittance to the EU... I was staggered then so I am not surprised by this capitulation of the age of consent regarding homosexuality.

What is the general age of consent in Europe? Is it fairly uniform (among the various countries)?

My heart is sore that Ireland is a part of the EU. My Easter Rebellion IRA (before they were thugs) grandfather must be rolling in his grave. This would break his heart if he were alive today.

9 posted on 03/03/2004 4:40:10 AM PST by american colleen
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To: Land of the Irish
Lithuania Lowers Age of Consent for Homosexual Sex to 14...

What great news for homosexuals everywhere as surely the other nations will fall in lockstep with the homosexual agenda.

In Lithuania, thanks to a benevolent government, perverts may legally lay their hands on youngsters under 15 years of age.

What a disgusting style of living your life. Where aberrant sexual acts are construed as legitimate sexual activity....as normal as a man and woman!

America needs to wake up quickly and reverse this trend that leads to hell.

Just this week a "man" was in trouble for raping an eight-month-old baby. It won't be long until legislation will be passed that would make this man innocent.

Today 14, tomorrow 8 months!

10 posted on 03/03/2004 5:49:16 AM PST by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal)
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To: Land of the Irish
I just did a google search using "age of consent" and "european union" as the search criteria.

The results are horrifying and evil. Small countries being strongarmed into conformity so as not to discriminate against gays and lesbians... oddly, the age of consent for homosexuals is lower than is the age of consent for heterosexuals.

You can see this same thing happening in our country within a short time.

Frightening.

11 posted on 03/03/2004 6:29:37 AM PST by american colleen
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To: Land of the Irish; dsc; Salvation; Canticle_of_Deborah; livius; american colleen; JesseHousman; ...
In such a depraved circumstance, there is hope! The original Divine Mercy Image, commissioned by Saint Faustina herself, is in Holy Trinity Church in Vilnius, Lithuania. The church and the Image itself were recently restored with the help of the Marians of the Immaculate Conception, the religious order that is the main advocate of the Divine Mercy Message and Devotion in North America and other parts of the world. Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet!


12 posted on 03/03/2004 6:48:30 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: livius
Actually I'm not so sure the Muslims/Islam worshippers are going to like this. I heard once that one of the worst riots in London was from the Muslims coming out to kick a bunch of homosexuals butts that were marching in parade or doing something like that. My impression is they hate homosexuals just as much as Christians do. But I won't doubt if what they do in secret stands out in stark contrast to what they say and do in public.
13 posted on 03/03/2004 6:58:14 AM PST by ReformedBeckite
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To: ReformedBeckite
I think it's technically a no-no for adults, but what they mean by that, is being the - er, passive partner. Things like cross-dressing are also frowned upon. However, teenage and younger boys seem to fair game in most Islamic societies (to the extent that the Koran even promises the [male] faithful that there will be beautiful boys for them in Paradise). I guess any society where the women go around masquerading as bags of laundry is going to have problems like this...
14 posted on 03/03/2004 7:15:28 AM PST by livius
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To: ReformedBeckite
My impression is they hate homosexuals just as much as Christians do.

Christians do not "hate" homosexuals, that's just leftist propaganda. Christians hate sin, of which homosexual acts merely are one.

Strangely, Muslim societies seem to be more tolerant of private acts of homosexuality although they are clearly rabidly opposed to any public displays of approval.

15 posted on 03/03/2004 7:16:22 AM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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To: FormerLib
Christians do not "hate" homosexuals

Thanks for mentioning that, I do believe that also just didn't say it that way. You said it better.

16 posted on 03/03/2004 7:21:18 AM PST by ReformedBeckite
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To: Pyro7480
Thank you for this reminder, Pyro7480. Perhaps in reading this news faithful Catholics and others touched by the Divine Mercy will stop and pray the Chaplet as a means of combatting this present darkness (rather than merely cursing the evil of the day).

The Divine Mercy Devotion

17 posted on 03/03/2004 7:24:46 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: american colleen
You can see this same thing happening in our country within a short time.

Frightening.

Evil.

18 posted on 03/03/2004 7:26:45 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Salvation
Yes, St. Michael the Archangel, defend us, for this is not only the day of battle, this is the hour and year of war. Amen.
19 posted on 03/03/2004 7:27:57 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan
WE ARE TO PRAY TO GOD, NOT TO DEAD SAINTS.
20 posted on 03/03/2004 9:08:42 AM PST by DEEHERR
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To: DEEHERR
No need to shout. St. Michael the Archangel is not dead. He is an angel. He was never a human being. He never died. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I suppose you are a protestant and not familiar with the Catholic Church. This website may help you understand our faith: Catholic Answers.

God bless you!

21 posted on 03/03/2004 9:17:26 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: DEEHERR
Thank you for your solid biblically based instruction. Let's all meditate, shall we:

29 Jesus said to them in reply, "You are misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.
30 At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.
31 And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God,
32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Dead or living? Time is such a deceiver. We think it is absolute. It is only a part of creation.
22 posted on 03/03/2004 9:58:09 AM PST by siunevada
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To: Siobhan
OTHER MEDIATORS BETWEEN GOD and MAN.

We have Christ as our Great High Priest who gives us full access to God's throne of grace. We do not need a human priest, nor Mary, nor dead saints to intercede for us. "Seeing then that we HAVE a GREAT HIGH PRIEST ... JESUS CHRIST the Son of God ... Let us therefore COME BOLDLY unto the Throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." Heb. 4:14, 16.

The Catholic priest, not only makes Christ's death on the cross a waste of time, but he also takes Christ's place as intermediary between man and God, when he says that you can't be saved unless you come to mass performed by him. They call him "Vicar" meaning "in the place of". "For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and man. The man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5.

23 posted on 03/03/2004 10:05:00 AM PST by DEEHERR
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To: Siobhan
Jesus Is Our Only Mediator Between God And Men

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV
"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:26-27 KJV

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25 KJV

24 posted on 03/03/2004 10:21:33 AM PST by DEEHERR
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To: DEEHERR
Please read the original Greek of 1 Tm 2:5. The word translated "one" (Gk heis) does not mean "one and only" (Gk monos).

By the way, the whole chapter of 1 Tm 2 is promoting intercessory prayer, which is nothing more than a form of mediation. The point is that Christian prayer participates in the mediation of Jesus before the Father.

By the way, did you also stop to chew out the author of Revelation, which depicts the allegedly "dead" St. Michael doing battle with Satan in heaven.

25 posted on 03/03/2004 10:54:11 AM PST by Campion
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To: DEEHERR
Is it pathetic that you have more of a problem with a Catholic prayer than with an entire nation seeing fit to legitimize homosexual molestation of 14-year-old boys?

Get the plank out of your eye.

26 posted on 03/03/2004 10:55:41 AM PST by Campion
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To: Siobhan; Pyro7480
Thanks to the constant, non-sublimal suggestions from Siobhan (;-), I looked up the Divine Mercy revelations and chaplet the other night, then started praying it last night.
27 posted on 03/03/2004 11:07:12 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Good for you! The Divine Mercy Devotion is what initiated my "reversion" back in the summer of 2002. On this Apologia link (the main page of which you linked me too), there's a good description of it.
28 posted on 03/03/2004 11:10:09 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: DEEHERR
In case you didn't notice, Catholic-bashing is neither the topic nor intent of this thread. Perhaps you would like to start another thread for such purpose?
29 posted on 03/03/2004 11:10:20 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Pyro7480
I'll look there also. I hadn't noticed it before.
30 posted on 03/03/2004 11:11:27 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: DEEHERR
Your opinions are misguided as one would expect outside the Magisterium of the Church. But I thank you for the charity you exhibit in trying to share truth as you conceive of it from your personal interpretation of the Scriptures. God bless!
31 posted on 03/03/2004 12:22:37 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Pyro7480
Your reversion, dear Pyro. By whatever name, the Church is stronger with your active presence, and poor souls are blessed and freed every time you pray the Chaplet. God bless you, my dear.
32 posted on 03/03/2004 12:28:15 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Campion
Thank you for your assistance, Campion. May the Holy Angels attend your every need.
33 posted on 03/03/2004 12:29:21 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan
My gosh, you are so sweet. :-)
34 posted on 03/03/2004 12:30:03 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: DEEHERR
I have been on enough Web sites being an apologist against many of your cohorts using the same jargon.

Most of the time it is a copy and paste job from a book or essay by fallen away priests, nuns and many agnostics. The problem is that they do not ever answer my question of: What do you believe in?

All I got back was their dis-beliefs but never their beliefs. How about giving it a try?
35 posted on 03/03/2004 12:33:30 PM PST by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
I am smiling at this news. ;^)
36 posted on 03/03/2004 12:44:05 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan
CATALOGUE OF ROME'S UNSCRIPTURAL DOCTRINES
AND DATES OF THEIR INCEPTION

1. Prayers for the dead 300 A.D.
2. Sign of the Cross 310 A.D.
3. Wax votive candles 320 A.D.
4. Veneration of saints and angels 375 A.D.
5. Mary declared "Mother of God" 431 A.D.
6. Priests begin to wear vestments 500 A.D.
7. Worship in Latin 600 A.D.
8. Temporal power of Papacy granted by Phocas 610 A.D.
9. Feast days in honour of Mary 650 A.D.
10. Kissing of the Pope's feet 709 A.D.
11. Temporal power of Papacy confirmed 750 A.D.
12. Adoration of Mary, saints, images and relics
legalised by 2nd Council of Nicea 788 A.D.
13. Holy water 850 A.D.
14. Veneration of St. Joseph 890 A.D.
15. Baptism of bells 965 A.D.
16. Canonization of dead saints 995 A.D.
17. Fasting on Fridays and Lent 998 A.D.
18. Rosary beads 1090 A.D.
19. Pope Boniface VII decrees celibacy of priests 1097 A.D.
20. Inquisition of heretics 1184 A.D.
21. Sale of Indulgences 1190 A.D.
22. Transubstantiation of the wafer 1215 A.D.
23. Confession to a priest 1215 A.D.
24. Adoration of the host (Wafer God) 1220 A.D.
25. Bible forbidden and placed on index of forbidden books --
by Council of Valencia 1229 A.D.
26. Red hats for Cardinals 1245 A.D.
27. Feast of Corpus Christi 1264 A.D.
28. The Miraculous scapular 1287 A.D.
29. Roman church as the only true church 1303 A.D.
30. Cup forbidden to laity at Communion 1415 A.D.
31. Purgatory decreed by Council of Florence 1439 A.D.
32. Doctrine of the seven sacraments 1439 A.D.
33. Tradition of equal authority to the Bible 1545 A.D.
34. Justification by works and not faith alone 1545 A.D.
35. Creed of Pope Plus IV makes all the unscriptural
doctrines of Council of Trent binding 1560 A.D.
36. Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary 1854 A.D.
37. Papal infallibility 1870 A.D.
38. Papal decree on mixed marriages -- all marriages not
celebrated by a Roman priest declared null and void 1908 A.D.
39. Pope reaffirms Mary as Mother of God 1931 A.D.
40. Assumption of the Virgin Mary 1950 A.D.


37 posted on 03/03/2004 5:39:19 PM PST by DEEHERR
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To: DEEHERR
Again, I thank you for exhibiting charity within the confines of what you have been taught about the Catholic Church.

Now it is time for you to stop cutting and pasting lists and to learn the glorious truth of the Holy Catholic Church of Rome. Here are 2 other good websites where you can begin:

The Holy See

EWTN - The website

38 posted on 03/03/2004 6:07:52 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: DEEHERR; Siobhan; Salvation; NYer; AAABEST
Historical errors just from your list (these are just a few):

1. Prayers for the dead 300 A.D. "Prayers to the dead" predate Christ. You'll find it in the books 1 Macabees and 2 Macabees. You're Bible doesn't have it? Then its incomplete! Jesus used the Septuagint, which had these books.

2. Sign of the Cross 310 A.D. See Sign of the Cross. It references Tertullian, who writes about the Sign of the Cross a century before your date, and the Sign itself has pre-Christian Jewish roots.

3. Wax votive candles 320 A.D. Candles were around LONG before that. Beekeeping goes back millenia.

6. Priests begin to wear vestments 500 A.D. Religious kept the standard garments they had been wearing for century, while other peoples' styles of clothing changes. That's why vestments are ancient-looking.

Adoration of Mary, saints, images and relics legalised by 2nd Council of Nicea 788 A.D. There's a First Century image of St. Peter in the Roman catacombs. While else would Christians paint them, if as some Protestants claim, these are "graven images."

13. Holy water 850 A.D. Ever hear of the Baptism of Christ?

14. Veneration of St. Joseph 890 A.D. There is a First Century prayer still prayed to St. Joseph. An ancient piece of papyrus from this century was found in Egypt.

22. Transubstantiation of the wafer 1215 A.D.
23. Confession to a priest 1215 A.D.
These are the sacraments instituted by Jesus Himself.

24. Adoration of the host (Wafer God) 1220 A.D. Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament comes from at least the Fourth Century.

25. Bible forbidden and placed on index of forbidden books -- by Council of Valencia 1229 A.D. Completely and utterly FALSE. There is a long-standing partial indulgence for reading the Bible.

Most of the rest, the dates of the dogmas are correct, but as my pastor said once, you'd be hard pressed before the Protestant Reformation to find Christians who didn't believe in these things.

39 posted on 03/03/2004 6:58:03 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Pyro7480
Do You Know Mary?
Carl Knott





I wonder, do you know the Mary of Mary’s Well, in Nazareth, Israel, and of the Gospels? She was a very special woman, blessed by God, and occupies a unique place in history. There has never been another woman just like her. She is an example to all women of purity, humility, faith and obedience. But I’d like you to notice some things that the Rosary says about Mary:
Holy Mary, pray for us...
Queen of heaven
Queen conceived without stain of sin
Ark of the Covenant
Door of heaven
Star of the morning
Healer of the sick
Refuge of sinners
Queen of the angels
Queen of the patriarchs
Queen of the confessors
Queen of all saints
Mystic Rose
Tower of David
Holy Mother of God
Holy Virgin of virgins
Mother of divine grace
Virgin worthy of veneration
Virgin worthy of praise
Powerful virgin
Merciful Virgin
Mirror of righteousness
Throne of wisdom
Source of our joy
Spiritual vessel
Venerable vessel
Yes, these things and many more are said about the Mary of the Rosary, the woman who is presented to us as the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ. Do you really know her? Perhaps you think so because they have told you about her since you were a child, but let’s see if you really know the Mary of the Scriptures.

Take the example of John the Baptist. The Lord Jesus said that John was the greatest of the prophets, but when they asked John, "Who are you?" he refused to take any title or honor for himself. He said, "I am not the Christ... I am not...no" (John 1:20-21). Each time he spoke he had less to say about himself, as if he were shrinking! And when they insisted, "What do you say concerning yourself?" he answered, "I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness" (John 1:23).

The case of Mary is similar. She was specially blessed of God to conceive and bear the Lord Jesus, and the angel called her "highly favored" (Luke 1:28). But there is a great distance between this statement and all the titles that the followers and devotees of Mary give her today. And as in the case of John the Baptist, if we allow Mary to speak of herself, this is what she says, "Behold, the handmaid of the Lord" (Luke 1:38), and "my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior" (Luke 1:47). Mary did not lie, I’m sure we agree, and there you have it, she said that God was her Savior, which means she needed to be saved. She knew well who she was, and we have it from her own mouth in the humblest of words.

John the Baptist, the greatest of the prophets, said about the Lord Jesus, "he must increase but I must decrease" (John 3:30). This is the way it was with Mary as well. In John 2:5 she moved into the background and told the servants this about Jesus, "Whatever He says to you, do it." If the devotees of Mary really believed her and took her advice, from this moment forward they would be devotees of Jesus Christ, not of Mary. The key to eternal life and the grace of God is the Lord Jesus Christ, not Mary. The Lord Jesus said, "that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father" (John 5:23). We are not told to honor Mary as divine or heavenly. There is no place in the Scriptures where the Apostles or early Christians prayed to Mary or venerated her. Did you know that there is no Rosary anywhere in the New Testament? When the Lord Jesus spoke of heaven, He said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me" (John 14:6). He never said, "To Jesus through Mary," but rather, as His words indicate, the way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. So let’s not allow ourselves to be deceived, nor allow our respect for Mary to be misguided by traditions or sentimentalism. She is blessed, but she is not the way to God. The Lord Jesus Christ is the way, the only way (see Peter’s words in Acts 4:12).

Who, then, is the Mary of the Bible? To answer that question we will need to go directly to the Scriptures, not to the Missal, prayer book, catechisms, etc. It’s like drinking water right from the fountainhead, instead of the muddy stream. In the Bible we have already seen that the angel said, "highly favored," and Mary replied, "Behold, the handmaid of the Lord". The Lord Jesus called her, "woman" (John 2:4), not "holy mother". The Apostles knew her as "Mary the mother of Jesus" (Acts 1:14), not as "Mother of God". For true believers, here are four texts, one from an angel, one from Mary herself, one from the Lord Jesus, and one from the Apostles, that describe the Biblical Mary.

Strangely, in spite of the clear record, there are people who insist on exalting a humble godly woman and making her something that neither angels, apostles, the Lord nor Mary herself claimed to be: a goddess. Perhaps they are unaware that this is the sin of idolatry, but the Mary that they have fabricated is a religious legend, not the true Mary of the Bible. It is another woman disguised as Mary who receives the devotion of her followers.

She is not the mother of God. No one in heaven, or in the Church in the New Testament called Mary "Mother of God," because God does not have a mother or a beginning; He is eternal. God the Son existed in heaven in perfect fellowship and glory with the Father before creation (see John 17:5). Mary is the mother of Jesus, simply the human vessel through which God became flesh, blessed to receive the Incarnate Lord, not to make Him.

She is most certainly not the door of heaven, for this is a phrase that describes the Lord Jesus Christ. As with many of her titles, they have apparently been robbed from Christ, long years ago, by people who didn’t really know Him, love Him, follow Him, or find Him to be sufficient as their Savior. Were they sincere? Probably. But the simple fact is, they insult the Lord Jesus by taking His titles and giving them to His human mother. He said, "I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved" (John 10:9). That is about as clear as it can be. Therefore, to call Mary the door of heaven is nothing less than blasphemy.

She is not the mother of the Church, nor of the apostles (at least not of the true Church), because the Church is a creation of God through the Holy Spirit, just as Adam and Eve were created without human parents. The Church is the bride of the Lord Jesus Christ, not the daughter of Mary. Therefore, to present Mary as the mother of the Church is not mystic, but simply ridiculous.

The Mary of the Bible is not the mother of all grace, because grace proceeds uniquely from God the Father and Jesus Christ (see Gal.1:3; Eph. 1:2; Phil. 1:2; Col. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1, etc.). It is not dispensed by humans but received by them, nor is it dispensed by churches or through sacraments, but only by God. Men should look to God for grace, not to Mary nor to any church.

She is not the throne of wisdom, because wisdom comes from God. She is not given a throne and has no spiritual wisdom to give others. We can learn from her example how to believe God and obey Him in a humble way, but she does not dispense wisdom. True wisdom descends from above, from the Father of lights (James 1:17; 3:17). There is no such thing as a "mother of lights".

She is emphatically not the queen of heaven, let’s be clear about this, because the Bible never gives her this title. There is no queen ruling in heaven. The throne belongs to God and to the Lamb, but not to Mary (see Revelation 7:15,17; 22:1). In John 14:1 the Lord called heaven, "my Father’s house," but never said it was His mother’s house. Those who know the Holy Scriptures know that "queen of heaven" is an idolatrous title from the pagan mythology of Babylon (Semiramis), repeated in Egypt (Isis) and elsewhere by other names (see Jeremiah 44:15-19, 25). According to verse 15 of this text, many of the devotees of the pagan "queen of heaven" were women. This pagan practice of devotion to female deities invaded the professing church after the Roman Emperor legalized Christianity and professed to believe, making it popular. Instead of being persecuted, Christians were to be allowed to build temples to worship in, and some pagans erased the names of their gods and goddesses and substituted Biblical names. Instead of the Babylonian mother-god Semiramis and her son Tammuz, or the Egyptian mother-god Isis, and her son Horus, they put the names Mary and Jesus. This practice of devotion to the mother and her son is neither Christian, nor apostolic, nor Biblical.

We are not told to believe in Mary, trust her, nor pray to her. The Lord Jesus said, "Ye believe in God, believe also in me" (John 14:1) but He never said, "believe also in my mother." If it were necessary, why didn’t He say so? He taught the disciples to pray in that wonderful way, saying, "Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name" but have you noticed that He never taught them to pray to Mary? Christ said that whatever we ask the Father in His name, will be given us (John 15:16; 16:23). We can go directly to the Father through the Son, and Mary is never presented as a mediatrix or intercessor. No one in the New Testament ever prayed to her. The true Mary cannot hear our prayers nor answer them. She would have to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent to do that, and she is not, for she is not God. Anyone who prays to her is guilty of false religion and idolatry.

The Mary of the Bible has already told us who she is. I invite you to look up and read each of the Scriptures, and see for yourself what the truth is in the Bible. The angel Gabriel has spoken. The Holy Apostles have spoken. The Lord Jesus has spoken, and this should be enough. He said, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30), but never mentioned Mary in this way. Nothing can be added to contradict or modify what the Scriptures say. But if in spite of this anyone continues venerating and practicing devotion to the legendary or mystical Mary that certain churches promote, then such a person shows that he is not a true believer. He is a pagan devotee of a goddess who uses the name of Mary to turn people away from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Friend, if you have venerated or prayed to Mary, I think you can see from the Scriptures such behavior is not pleasing to God. Perhaps you did it sincerely, but in ignorance. Nevertheless, now that you know the truth, you should confess it as sin, repent, and put all your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, for He alone can save you. I hope you’ll take the advice of Mary and do whatever the Son says. He says that we should trust in Him for eternal life (John 3:16). And while you’re at it, take the advice of John the Baptist, too, and let the Lord Jesus Christ increase in your life. The apostolic doctrine teaches us that there is one God and one mediator between God and men, not one God and many mediators. The one whose is both God and Mediator is named Christ Jesus. Do you know Him, and have you put your trust in Him alone for salvation? If not, I hope you’ll do so right now.




40 posted on 03/03/2004 7:32:20 PM PST by DEEHERR
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To: Pyro7480
Hail Mary?
Greg Durel





The prayer life of the Roman Catholic is quite different from the Bible believing Christian. The predominant prayer in the life of almost any catholic is the "Hail Mary." It goes like this: "HAIL MARY FULL OF GRACE, THE LORD IS WITH THEE. BLESSED ART THOU AMONG WOMEN AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB, JESUS. HOLY MARY, MOTHER OF GOD, PRAY FOR US SINNERS, NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH. AMEN." The statements made in this prayer are quite significant. Allow us to look at them one at a time and compare them with the word of God to see if there is a basis for such a prayer at all.

1) Hail Mary—The word "hail" brings with it today the connotation of royalty, nobility and power. It is a greeting given to someone of great power, influence and preeminence. We know very well that is the position that Roman Catholicism places on Mary. For example: the principle form of prayer for most Catholics is the "rosary." The rosary is a system of beads where a prayer is said for each bead. The beads are a way to count the prayers and to know where and when to say a particular prayer. In this "rosary," ten prayers are said to Mary for every one that is said to God the Father. In other words Mary is preeminent ten to one over God! Mary is referred to as the "mother of the church," "the second eve," "the queen of heaven." The queen of the universe," "co-redemptrix," "co-mediator," and if that were not enough, the head of the Roman Catholic Church has dedicated the world on at least two occasions, not to the savior Jesus Christ, but to Mary. When he was shot in an assassination attempt, he thanked and credited Mary with saving him! Attributing praise and worship to humans that have no basis to receive such is not uncommon in forms of religious and political paganism, e.g., "Hail Caesar" or "Hail Hitler."

2) Full of Grace—Wow! What a statement. The teaching is clear. Mary was not ordinary, but was in fact "full" of grace. She must have been special to be "full of grace," right? What does God’s word have to say on the matter? John chapter 1 is like a giant spotlight on this subject. It clearly tells us that Jesus Christ is the one that is full of grace. Mary is never said to be full of grace in the scripture. John goes on to tell us in verse 16 that we are all full of His grace and truth, because all believers have Jesus dwelling within them. Only in this sense could Mary have been full of grace. The grace would have been the savior she carried in her womb and after Pentecost, the spirit of Christ that lives in every believer.

3) The Lord is with thee—The Lord is with every believer or they are not in fact a believer (Rom. 8:9)

4) Blessed art thou among women—While this statement is certainly biblical, it must be understood in the light of biblical truth and not as a result of subjective interpretation. The New Testament was written in "koine" Greek as opposed to classical. There are several words in the Greek language for blessed, just like there are several words for "love," each having a different meaning or carrying with it a particular connotation. A failure to examine the underlying text is a gross mistake on the part of the student of God’s Word. The word translated "blessed" when speaking of Mary is not the same word used when referring to our Lord. The word used for Mary means to pronounce fortunate, and indeed she was. On the other hand the word used for blessed when referring to our Lord means to be adored. Quite a difference, wouldn’t you say? You may even wish to check your concordance to see if there is a woman whom the Bible says is blessed "above" women.

5) Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus—Without a doubt this is the truth that should be the focus: the Lord Jesus, the Messiah and savior of the world. This should be the emphasis and not Mary. Many, though, know not what they worship.

6) Holy Mary, Mother of God—What a statement! Is it true? Not by any stretch of the imagination. The Bible clearly teaches that the only HOLY one is God. Mary in what is known as her Magnificat, rejoices in God HER SAVIOR (Lk.1: 47). Holiness does not need saving. Mary, after the birth of Jesus, offers a sacrifice for HER SINS. Holiness need not offer a sacrifice for sins. Mary, as any believer, received her righteousness as a gift from the Father. There was nothing inherently holy about Mary. Even Thomas Aquinas denies the "immaculate conception" of Mary. Regarding the "Mother of God" statement much not need be said. God was not born nor was He created. Mary gave birth to the "humanity" of Jesus. Jesus was God, because He is God! The statement "Mother of God" developed out of a reaction to the denial of the Deity of Jesus by some. That overreaction has resulted in the tail wagging the dog so to speak. Mary was the vessel by which the incarnation took place but she was not the supplier of Divine chromosomes.

7) Pray for us sinners—Mary does not pray for you or me. She does not even know that we exist. If she could know millions and millions of people then she would be a God! While I can pray for you if you were to ask me to, I am alive here on earth. If I would know that you were asking me to pray for you from a thousand miles away, then I would be like God. Do you get the picture? Mary has been clearly given the attributes of God. The adjective "sinners" is used because all good Catholics are still trying to pay for their sin debt. Failing to realize that when Christ said, "it is finished," He meant it. When God the Father declared it through Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20, He certainly was not kidding.

8) Now and at the hour of our death—"Now," she could not even if she wanted to. "At the hour of our death," why? Please tell me what would be the purpose of such a prayer (if one could be made) at the hour of our death? Further, she again would have to be a "GOD" to know where and when we were going to die.

9) Amen—A permanent amen should not be given to prayers to anyone other than God. The Father is to be the recipient of all prayer.

In summary, allow me to say that Mary was a wonderful vessel that the Father used. Mary was chosen for these reasons:

1. She was a fine, virtuous, faithful to the law Jewish maiden.
2. She was of the "seed" of King David.
3. She was a virgin.

These qualifications were the biblical reasons to choose her. Not having just one of these prerequisites would have caused God’s prophecies to fail. Did Mary play an important role in the Bible? Yes, but so did Noah and Joseph, etc. Remember, Jesus never called Mary Mother. Not even once! No Apostle ever asks her opinion on anything. No one in the Bible ever asks Mary to pray for them. After the first chapter of the fifth book of the New Testament she is never mentioned again, and then only in a list of other believers.

Please allow the Scripture to bring you to a true understanding of Mary the Mother of Jesus.

41 posted on 03/03/2004 7:34:37 PM PST by DEEHERR
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To: DEEHERR; Siobhan; fatima; NYer; Salvation; AAABEST
But I’d like you to notice some things that the Rosary says about Mary:

This isn't the Rosary. This is called the Litany of Loreto. There's something very "providential" about the title "Star of the morning," or if you will, "Morning Star." Maia Morgenstern, the Romanian Jew who played Mary in "The Passion of the Christ," her last name means "Morning Star." In fact, one ancient interpretation of the Hebrew name "Miriam" is "Morning Star."

Your article starts out with a major error. It can't even get right where these titles are from!

42 posted on 03/03/2004 7:50:41 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: DEEHERR; Siobhan; NYer; Salvation; AAABEST
HAIL MARY FULL OF GRACE, THE LORD IS WITH THEE. BLESSED ART THOU AMONG WOMEN AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB

Open your Bible to Luke 1, and you'll see these words as the words of the Archangel Gabriel and those of Mary's cousin, Elizabeth.

43 posted on 03/03/2004 7:52:28 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Land of the Irish
I must live a sheltered life. I had no idea there was such a thing as an age of consent for homosexuality.

All aboard the handbasket to hell.
44 posted on 03/03/2004 8:05:49 PM PST by P.O.E.
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To: DEEHERR; Religion Moderator
Disruptor alert.
45 posted on 03/03/2004 8:07:46 PM PST by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment NOW!)
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To: DEEHERR
" Even Thomas Aquinas denies the "immaculate conception" of Mary.

Luke 1:34-35
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."

" Now and at the hour of our death—"Now," she could not even if she wanted to...There was nothing inherently holy about Mary. She does not even know that we exist.

If Abraham knows, she knows!

John 2:3
When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." "Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come." His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

Holy Mary, Mother of God—What a statement! Is it true? Not by any stretch of the imagination... Remember, Jesus never called Mary Mother. Not even once!

It is forbiden to tempt the Lord thy God. I'd sleep with my mouth to the pillow in fear of angels coming with a bar of soap.

46 posted on 03/03/2004 9:10:16 PM PST by spunkets
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To: DEEHERR
Are you Jehovah's witness?
47 posted on 03/03/2004 10:08:10 PM PST by fatima (Today is my birthday,I want everything.)
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To: ReformedBeckite
"My impression is they hate homosexuals just as much as Christians do."

Where in the world did you get a silly idea like, "Christians hate homosexuals?"
48 posted on 03/04/2004 7:25:16 AM PST by dsc
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To: DEEHERR; Religion Moderator; Antoninus; Pyro7480
We have a disruptor on board.
49 posted on 03/04/2004 7:34:40 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Campion
"Please read the original Greek of 1 Tm 2:5. The word translated "one" (Gk heis) does not mean "one and only" (Gk monos"

Except in the context of that verse, "one" means one and only...which is to say"ONE Mediator between God and Man, That being Christ Jesus.

You have to look at context, not just pick out one phrase to support a whole doctrine. Christ IS OUR CHIEF Mediator. Granted any Christian can pray and intercede for one another, but that is not what Timothy was saying!

As for St. Michael, I never bought the notion that an arch angel could be a saint!
50 posted on 03/04/2004 7:48:09 AM PST by mdmathis6 (The Democrats must be defeated in 2004...." MDMATHIS6, The Anti-Democrat")
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