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Who is Fr. Richard Fragomeni? (vanity question)
my own skeptical curiousity | 03/06/04 | kstewskis

Posted on 03/06/2004 8:02:13 AM PST by kstewskis

We will be having a priest come to our parish March 13-16th to speak about the "On-going Call to Conversion: Lived Out Through the Liturugy and the Sacraments."

His name is Fr. Richard Fragomeni, I have never heard of him (which isn't unusual). He has recently spoken at the Catechetical Congress in Los Angeles (first hesitation), and some staff members at our (liberal) parish are very enthusiastic that he is coming to our community. It is being highly encouraged that all parishoners attend his talks during that time.

Are any of you familiar with his writings? Work? More and more I get skeptical about how these "priests" are being promoted, not knowing what their background is. I'd like to do some homework before attending his talks, so I can be in the right frame of mind.

Thank you all in advance!


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Worship
KEYWORDS: fragomeni
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inquiring minds would like to know... :)
1 posted on 03/06/2004 8:02:13 AM PST by kstewskis
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To: Northern Yankee; Victoria Delsoul; GirlShortstop; missyme; Aquinasfan; saradippity; maximillian; ...
humbly asking for opinions on Fr. Fragomeni if you have them, thanks!
2 posted on 03/06/2004 8:06:49 AM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: kstewskis; NYer
Hiya kstew... good question, good intention!
I did a google, and the first hit, on the surface, wasn't encouraging:
I heard Fr. Fragomeni speak at the Religious Education Congress on the weekend of Feb. 20, 21 & 22, 1998. He is a fantastic speaker filled with God's grace and wisdom. When he spoke on the Holy Spirit, I was mesmerized. It was an eye-opening and Spirit-inspired talk. He is based in Albany, New York. What an incredible speaker!
Fr. Richard N. Fragomeni
Associate Professor of Liturgy and Preaching at the Catholic Theological Union in Chicago
Certainly not everything/everyone in Albany is bad; this comment was from 1998.  NYer, I hope I'm not pestering you, but do you have any experience or knowledge that'd be helpful?
3 posted on 03/06/2004 8:41:02 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: GirlShortstop
From the Defender on the Ninth Annual Catechetical Conference in San Antonion:
Fr. Richard N. Fragomeni spoke on Reconciliation and Eucharist. He said, "Our early ancestors realized early on that we needed a second baptism, so what they did was develop a second baptism called penance."

Fr. Fragomeni seems to be telling us here that the early church and not Our Lord Jesus Christ invented the sacrament of penance. (Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion. It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as 'the second plank (of salvation) after the shipwreck which is the loss of grace.1446 ccc)

He also cast doubt on the Catholic Church being the one true church by saying, "By mercy we enter into one body-one spirit in Christ no matter what our religion is."

4 posted on 03/06/2004 8:54:31 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: kstewskis; GirlShortstop; NYer
And then there was a friend who put out this alert when Fragomeni was due to ride his broom into the DIocese of St. Augustine in Florida:

 FAITH ALERT: Fr. Richard Fragomeni, will be the speaker at the St. Augustine Diocesan Catechist Day, Sat., Feb. 3, 2001 @ Bishop Kenny Hight School. Fr. Fragomeni’s specialties include Tarot cards, New Age, seances and a particular fondness for Cardinal Mahony’s GFT Letter. A popular speaker at the dissident-driven Los Angeles annual Religious Education Congress, his theology is, at the least, unsound.

5 posted on 03/06/2004 9:00:38 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan
He sounds like someone to avoid, or at least question closely.
6 posted on 03/06/2004 9:03:22 AM PST by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: GirlShortstop; NYer; kstewskis
I must say it is very odd, because Fragomeni's name came up in conversation yesterday as one of the most destructive forces in the Catholic Church in America. He has long been an enemy of Mother Angelica and Father Mitch Pacwa, to name but two, and I think it is safe to say that he is in that group of Bernardin's and Mahony's boys.
7 posted on 03/06/2004 9:04:41 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: GirlShortstop
The bit from the Defender is on the EWTN.COM archives website.
8 posted on 03/06/2004 9:05:57 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan; GirlShortstop
He also cast doubt on the Catholic Church being the one true church by saying, "By mercy we enter into one body-one spirit in Christ no matter what our religion is."

I also found (what is distrubing) via goggle search a reference to him, welcoming him to a retreat in 1998:

marriedpriests.org

WEORC RETREAT October 23-25, 1998 St. Benedict Retreat Center Benet Lake, Wisconsin

We are happy to announce that our annual retreat this year will be led by Fr. Richard Fragomeni who is nationally renowned as a speaker and spiritual guide. He is a professor of homiletics at the Catholic Theological Union and many WEORC members know him for his Sunday liturgies at Sheil Chapel of Northwestern University. Everyone who has heard him speaks of his talks which touch the heart.

I'm not liking the sounds of this...

(thank you Siobhan! I didn't mean to leave you out of the "ping"!)

9 posted on 03/06/2004 9:10:33 AM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: kstewskis
Wow, he does Mass at my Center in Chicago occasionally (campus Newman Center). He is a close friend of the Schwazanegar's (however you spell it). Kind of liberal I think, but he is very reverential at Mass, so it is a trade-off.
10 posted on 03/06/2004 9:21:52 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: kstewskis
For the longest time my Parish Center (Sheil) didn't kneel at the consecration, he wanted people to kneel and when people did, he was glad to see it. Sounds like a very mix-bag.
11 posted on 03/06/2004 9:23:48 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: kstewskis; Siobhan; NYer
I'm not liking the sounds of this...

In the words of Fox's Shep Smith...  "not lookin' pretty folks".
Sadly, that doesn't come as a surprise, does it?  kstew, your "hunch" to check into this was right on the money.  If you get any indication that father Richard Fragomeni's undergone a change of heart and/or he's returned to the Catholic faith and teaching, I'd be interested in what you find.  Lastly, if any of this prompts an intel dissemination project to Catholics, let me know if I can help.   :-)

12 posted on 03/06/2004 9:30:44 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: Siobhan
I'd guess -- if he was popular in the LA Diocese, he has to be liberal/heretical. It is BAD out here -- you would not believe the things we hear from the LEADERS at our RCIA class. If challenged, they say things like, 'Well, we don't always follow the Pope's leadings,' and when queried about Romans 1/ homosexuality they say, 'Well, you would hurt a lot of people's feelings at THIS parish. We welcome homosexuals and they bring a lot of money into the Church.' I'd be on my guard with this guy ... bring a little Holy Water to clean yourself up with afterwards, and be prepared to Speak the Truth in Love.
13 posted on 03/06/2004 9:34:43 AM PST by bboop
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To: Siobhan; Salvation; kstewskis
I must say it is very odd, because Fragomeni's name came up in conversation yesterday as one of the most destructive forces in the Catholic Church in America. He has long been an enemy of Mother Angelica and Father Mitch Pacwa, to name but two....

As Salvation would say in a matter like this, "no such thing as a coincidence".   :-)    If Mother Angelica and Father Mitch Pacwa are this guy's enemies, then I can easily firm up my opinion of who's on the good side and who's not.  Thanks so much Siobhan for the info.

14 posted on 03/06/2004 9:39:53 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: NWU Army ROTC; GirlShortstop
For the longest time my Parish Center (Sheil) didn't kneel at the consecration, he wanted people to kneel and when people did, he was glad to see it. Sounds like a very mix-bag.

I know what you mean about "mix-bag." When the GIRM was implemented in our diocese in January, our somewhat left leaning parish has not, as of this day, implemented standing during the communion. They (the parishoners) continue to kneel, throughout the consecration and communion, which I think is great.

Our parish members (in talking with them) seem to be split down the middle on all things traditional, conservative, or liberal. It's an interesting mix, to say the least.

Thanks for your imput!

15 posted on 03/06/2004 9:41:07 AM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: GirlShortstop; Salvation; Siobhan
As Salvation would say in a matter like this, "no such thing as a coincidence". :-) If Mother Angelica and Father Mitch Pacwa are this guy's enemies, then I can easily firm up my opinion of who's on the good side and who's not. Thanks so much Siobhan for the info.

Perhaps it's "the other realm" rearing it's ugly head once again, as Mel Gibson would put it!

Thanks GSS!

16 posted on 03/06/2004 9:44:15 AM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: GirlShortstop
Lastly, if any of this prompts an intel dissemination project to Catholics, let me know if I can help. :-)

You got it! Thanks again!

17 posted on 03/06/2004 9:45:13 AM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: bboop
It is BAD out here -- you would not believe the things we hear from the LEADERS at our RCIA class. If challenged, they say things like, 'Well, we don't always follow the Pope's leadings,' and when queried about Romans 1/ homosexuality they say, 'Well, you would hurt a lot of people's feelings at THIS parish. We welcome homosexuals and they bring a lot of money into the Church.

That is sick, and I take personal offense at their comments and heresy, since I am a team facilitator at our parish's RCIA program in Arizona.

I'd be on my guard with this guy ... bring a little Holy Water to clean yourself up with afterwards, and be prepared to Speak the Truth in Love.

Will do. Can they pipe Holy Water into a shower system?

18 posted on 03/06/2004 9:51:08 AM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: bboop
... bring a little Holy Water to clean yourself up with afterwards, and be prepared to Speak the Truth in Love.

Beautifully said. (A Miraculous Medal and the Brown Scapular are always in order too!)

19 posted on 03/06/2004 9:52:06 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: NWU Army ROTC
Kind of liberal I think, but he is very reverential at Mass, so it is a trade-off.

But didn't you say that your Newman Center Chapel has been consistently using invalid matter? How "reverential" can you be when you are not consecrating a valid Mass?

20 posted on 03/06/2004 10:03:30 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: kstewskis; GirlShortstop; Desdemona; bboop; NWU Army ROTC; Pyro7480; BlackElk; sandyeggo; ...
If he has undergone some sort of conversion to the Truth, I will dance for joy (and I'm still pretty good at an Irish step or two). So let us know. I will hold you and your parish in my prayers (inscribing into my prayer Journal). God bless!

Oh, and everyone -- Prayers to St. Michael the Archangel for Kstewskis and the parish -- and how about an Act of Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, because we need to do so at this time, okay?

21 posted on 03/06/2004 10:07:44 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Maximilian
According to Cardinal George, it was illicit. Now, the fact they still used it for Sundays certainly says something. Daily Mass was hosts. I think I can safely say, that in terms of Adults (30+), I have the most liberal communist parish in the entire country. What I am saying, is that this is a priest who wanted kneeling when he came, but the community didn't kneel cause it wasn't there thing. They are grudgingly kneeling now, and I know it isn't that hard (though they make enough noise, you'd think we asked them to do something bigger). But from talking to the Cardinal and telling him the situation, he said it was illicit, he finally put his foot down and demanded conformity to rubrics, and thankfully, he has since gotten conformity. Though the adults (30+) are still the most progressive liberal group in the country.

Do we just leave them? I think the answer is no, one has to drag them kicking and screaming back to Orthodoxy, one little issue at a time. So, according to Cardinal George it was illicit, but so are Masses with hand-holding, no "lavabo," glass chalices, etc. Still trying to figure out what my next project will be.
22 posted on 03/06/2004 10:14:39 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Siobhan; kstewskis
....Prayers to St. Michael the Archangel for Kstewskis and the parish -- and how about an Act of Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, because we need to do so at this time, okay?

Perfect.
Thank you for the link.
23 posted on 03/06/2004 10:20:08 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: GirlShortstop
He's not wearing his collar. That's enough for me.
24 posted on 03/06/2004 10:25:15 AM PST by BlessedBeGod
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To: NWU Army ROTC
According to Cardinal George, it was illicit.

Depending on the actual recipe, it could be either illicit or invalid. How did Cardinal George know the exact ingredients? Here is a 1979 statement by the Vatican:

"As early as 1979 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith became alarmed over the unauthorized practice in the United States of celebrating Masses with invalid matter and urged its bishops to correct the abuses. On June 4, 1979, Franjo Cardinal Seper, Prefect of the Congregation for the Faith, in a letter directed to Archbishop John R. Quinn, then president of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, among other important items, the following:

". . . It may be helpful to note that recipes sent to the Sacred Congregation over the past several years vary greatly in the matter of "additions"; where there is question of slight additions (e.g. salt, condiments) the matter will be valid but illicit; where there is question of substitution of all or a large quantity of water by other liquids (e.g. milk, eggs, honey, etc.) the matter will be invalid . . . .

It is recommended to the Bishops of the United States that they recall to their priests the need to satisfy any obligation deriving from Masses celebrated with invalid matter. These decisions were approved by His Holiness, Pope John Paul II in the audience of May 11th 1979.12


25 posted on 03/06/2004 10:28:47 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
To my knowledge, they gave the recipe to Cardinal George, and he deemed it Illicit. Of course, the fact they thought nothing of that, is troubling as well.
26 posted on 03/06/2004 10:34:22 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: BlessedBeGod; kstewskis
Ditto on the lack of priestly collar. k, that's his third strike ;-)
27 posted on 03/06/2004 10:37:16 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: kstewskis; Siobhan; GirlShortstop; Canticle_of_Deborah; Maximilian; NWU Army ROTC; bboop
If you go see him, be sure to bring the proper equipment along:


28 posted on 03/06/2004 1:09:34 PM PST by AAABEST (<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
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To: GirlShortstop; Siobhan; rcath60; m4629; sandyeggo; Salvation; johnb2004; kstewskis
Certainly not everything/everyone in Albany is bad

FAITH ALERT: Fr. Richard Fragomeni, will be the speaker at the St. Augustine Diocesan Catechist Day, Sat., Feb. 3, 2001 @ Bishop Kenny Hight School. Fr. Fragomeni’s specialties include Tarot cards, New Age, seances and a particular fondness for Cardinal Mahony’s GFT Letter. A popular speaker at the dissident-driven Los Angeles annual Religious Education Congress, his theology is, at the least, unsound.

Thank you, Siobhan! That's sounds more like the ideology that prevails and emanates out of this hell hole of a diocese. It wasn't bad enough that Hubbard inflicted Fr. Dr. Vosko, the church "wreckovator" on the catholic populace of the US, he now sends out this scourge.

Kstewkis - you would gain more by staying home, tuning in to EWTN and watching reruns of Mother Angelica Live.

Here's the lenten speakers series 2004, sponsored by the Diocese of Albany:

Mar. 3 - The Internet as a Metaphor for God
Mar. 10 - A Day Apart: The Fight for the Sabbath in Judaism, Christianity & Islam
Mar. 17 - African-American Women in Church & Mission History
Mar. 24 - The Erotic Word: Spirituality & the Bible
Mar. 31 - Mar. 31 - The Sacred Depths of Nature

I understand the 'good' Sisters of St. Joseph of Carondelet have issued a lenten meditation pamphlet. Their Good Friday meditation is on nurturing a garden.

Trust me on this one! NOTHING good comes out of Albany! Nothing!

29 posted on 03/06/2004 2:24:18 PM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: kstewskis
When the GIRM was implemented in our diocese in January, our somewhat left leaning parish has not, as of this day, implemented standing during the communion. They (the parishoners) continue to kneel, throughout the consecration and communion, which I think is great.

The GIRM calls for kneeling, not standing, during distribution of the Eucharist. So, your parish IS implementing the GIRM.

30 posted on 03/06/2004 2:32:07 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: NWU Army ROTC
So, according to Cardinal George it was illicit, but so are Masses with hand-holding, no "lavabo," glass chalices, etc

Hand-holding and glass chalices does not render a Mass illicit.

31 posted on 03/06/2004 2:35:16 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: sinkspur
The GIRM calls for kneeling, not standing, during distribution of the Eucharist. So, your parish IS implementing the GIRM.

It is? I'm relieved, and now confused.

I went to my neighborhood parish around the same time, and they stood during the distribution of the Eucharist (stating they were implementing the GIRM)...as did my sister's old parish in Burbank, CA.

(note, they had been doing that for a number of years, under the direction of Bishop Mahoney...not surprising)

Thanks for your imput.

32 posted on 03/06/2004 2:37:00 PM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: kstewskis
imput whoops, input
33 posted on 03/06/2004 2:54:02 PM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: kstewskis
Actually, the posture of the congregation during the distribution of the Eucharist is up to the discretion of the local bishop. Our bishop decided that, since most people will kneel, kneeling would be the posture used in our diocese.

So, different dioceses will likely vary.

34 posted on 03/06/2004 2:56:39 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: NYer; GirlShortstop
Kstewkis - you would gain more by staying home, tuning in to EWTN and watching reruns of Mother Angelica Live.

Sounds like a great plan to me. GSS knew you'd be great resource for this info....thanks so much!

35 posted on 03/06/2004 2:58:23 PM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: Siobhan; All
Oh, and everyone -- Prayers to St. Michael the Archangel for Kstewskis and the parish -- and how about an Act of Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, because we need to do so at this time, okay?

Bless your heart and thank you for those prayers!

36 posted on 03/06/2004 2:59:20 PM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: kstewskis
Oh, could we do RCIA at YOUR Parish??? It is so bad in this one. I have to sometimes not go, for fear that I will breathe FIRE (Holy Prophetic Fire) on the teacher/ group. There is one gal who is coming from New Age (et AL) and asks those 'cosmic' questions of the Confused. I WISH the teacher would give those SOLID answers -- "We Christians do not believe that, but rather...." One of the teacher helpers one evening said, "The Seven Sacraments correlate with the Seven Chakras." I said, "THAT is Hinduism." She said, "Well, the Catholic Meditation teacher teaches that." I am glad to hear that you find that offensive in Arizona. aaah.
37 posted on 03/06/2004 3:09:47 PM PST by bboop
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To: kstewskis
I agree. EWTN is great. Mitch Pacwa and Scott Hahn were out this way (LA). They were so great, reverential. But I wondered if Steubenville were the only 'Holy' Parish happening. It is probably just LA myopia, tho (??).
38 posted on 03/06/2004 3:15:18 PM PST by bboop
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To: bboop
One of the teacher helpers one evening said, "The Seven Sacraments correlate with the Seven Chakras." I said, "THAT is Hinduism." She said, "Well, the Catholic Meditation teacher teaches that."

Eeek!

Isn't that "spiritual sabatoge?" Isn't there someone at the parish to complain to? They are not echoing Catholic Teaching. Who the heck is that "Catholic Meditation" teacher? Does he/she/it teach that deep breathing, tofu, and colonic cleansing go with the process? Heaven forbid it is a nun or priest...I sure hope not!

I am glad to hear that you find that offensive in Arizona. aaah.

Unfortunately, there is a little bit of California (and East Coast) liberalism creeping into our state little by little...but hopefully there are enough of us "refugees" to hold down the fort of conservatism (Church and Politics) along with the natives, to fend them off.

39 posted on 03/06/2004 3:38:05 PM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: bboop; kstewskis; NYer; sandyeggo
Clearly, you know the Truth. Perhaps you can offer up this RCIA mischief as a work of mercy as you pray and intercede for the others who are there -- for the teachers to have there minds opened to the Truth and for those in the class with you to have their minds, hearts, and souls guarded from the Lies of the evil one.

In time, you may discover that your primary purpose in being there was to intercede in this way by Grace and through the operation of the Holy Spirit. Were I with you I would also pray for God to send in legions of His holy angels to assist the Holy Guardian Angels in their work.

40 posted on 03/06/2004 3:55:54 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: bboop; kstewskis; Siobhan; GirlShortstop; TheStickman; sandyeggo; johnb2004; rcath60; tekriter; ...
It is so bad in this one. I have to sometimes not go, for fear that I will breathe FIRE (Holy Prophetic Fire) on the teacher/ group.

Lol .... just do it! Nail them to the wall! Scare the beejeebees out of them. They deserve nothing less. Here in the Albany Diocese, the liberal machine has been churning away for 27 years (I've only been here 11 years). Last year, my 11th grade, 16 year old daughter, entered the final phase of preparation for Confirmation (thank you, Lord!) The pastor asked if I could help out by teaching one of the Confirmation groups.

Flashback: I made my Confirmation back in 1960 at the ripe age of 11, and under the old Latin Rite. Back then, the 'confirmandi' were called to the Church Militant and referred to as 'Soldiers of Christ'. Like many kids that age, we shuffled our feet into the church, sat through the droning Latin mass and waved programs to cool ourselves down under the white and red robes that we wore into the church that night. The bishop stood up and began his homily. Blah ... blah ... blah ... 'soldiers of Christ' ... blah .... blah! My head jerked to attention! What was it he called us? Soldiers? of Christ? My attention was now riveted upon each and every one of his words as he 'commissioned' us. That night stands out today as though it had happened yesterday. Truly!

So, when the pastor asked me to help out, as a 'soldier of Christ', I answered the call and volunteered. Was I in for a surprise! Prior to the beginning of classes, the instructors met with the DRE. She handed us the Catechists's Guide - all 400 pages of it! She then handed us the Student's handbook - all 50 pages of it!

I take these assignments seriously and spent hours pouring over the Catechist's guide, preparing materials for my first class. The 'handbook' is broken down into 4 parts - Period of Invitation, Period of Formation, Period of Reflection and Period of Mission. Excitedly, I flipped the pages to Chapter 1 of the Period of Invitation. Here are the 'Materials Needed' for the first class. (this is no joke!)

1. one or more dice, depending on size of group
2. newsprint and markers or a chalkboard and chalk.
3. stones of similar size and texture, one for each candidate
4. 3 narrow strips of dense fabric to serve as blindfolds
5. candidates' handbooks, one for each participant
6. pens, one for each candidate 7. a large rock to serve as a symbol of Jesus
8. 2 pillar candles and matches.
9. a Bible (finally!)
10. a tape player or CD player and songs on the themes of loneliness and friendship.

At that point, I tossed the book into the cabinet, printed off copies of the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, packed up my Bible and Catechism of the Catholic Church and drove over to the church.

On the 3rd week of classes, the DRE threw open the door to my classroom, boombox in hand, and asked for volunteers to perform a liturgical dance. My jaw dropped! I made excuses for her, thinking that she must not know that liturgical dance was banned in the US by the USCCB and the Vatican.

Long story short, she didn't. She took the materials I gave her to the pastor, he told her to disregard them, I then spoke with the pastor; he tried to rephrase it as a 'processional'; I wrote to the diocese; they supported the pastor; I wrote back and quoted from Inaestimable Donum - "all catholics have a right to a valid liturgy'; the diocese wrote back and conceded the issue.

Pont of this post ... KNOW YOUR RIGHTS, as a catholic and be prepared to fight for them.

Is Your Mass Valid? Liturgical Abuse

I have now left that parish and roam the Albany Diocese in search of a new one. Thanks to another catholic freeper, tomorrow, I will attend mass at St. Ann's Maronite Church in Troy NY. The Consecration is in Aramaic, the language of Jesus.

There are 21 Rites that make up the Catholic Church. to learn more about these, click the following link.

Catholic Rites and Churches

41 posted on 03/06/2004 4:16:31 PM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: NYer
I wrote back and quoted from Inaestimable Donum - "all catholics have a right to a valid liturgy'; the diocese wrote back and conceded the issue.

You are proof that not everything that comes out of Albany is bad.   Soldier of Christ!   Pax et bonum.
42 posted on 03/06/2004 4:23:42 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: NYer; sandyeggo
sandyeggo attends the Maronite Church from time to time. And as many know on FR The Maronite reite parishes have long been our sanctuary in America. I speak Arabic, and when I hear the parts of the Mass in Aramaic I am transported in time. Most Maronite parishes have Mass in English and Aramaic now, and the English is so very beautiful.

To me, the Maronites are the only ones in the Catholic Church who understand the theology of the Exchange of the Peace of the Lord as well as how it should be done.

NYer, my prayers that it may be a haven of rest and blessing for you.

43 posted on 03/06/2004 4:31:14 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan; sandyeggo; NYer; bboop
That may have been a confusing post. Yes, I am a Latin rite Irish American Catholic. I meant that I have found sanctuary from the madness that one sometimes finds in our Latin rite parishes, yes, I have found a holy have of peace among the Maronites.

I have learned how to appreciate this aspect of the Catholic Church -- how as a loving mother she gives us a means off surviving during the horrors we have experienced in our various dioceses.

44 posted on 03/06/2004 4:36:03 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: NYer; bboop; GirlShortstop; sandyeggo; kstewskis
My last two posts are evidence that it is hard to type with children climbing on you.....signing off for now.. God bless you all!
45 posted on 03/06/2004 4:38:18 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan
My last two posts are evidence that it is hard to type with children climbing on you.....signing off for now.. God bless you all!

LOL... 'til next time!   God bless you as well Siobhan.
46 posted on 03/06/2004 4:43:52 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer
I made excuses for her, thinking that she must not know that liturgical dance was banned in the US by the USCCB and the Vatican

Good grief! Someone needs to tell our parish priest! (as if he'll listen...) I can't bear to see these "liturgical dancers again whom our priest calls 'a form of prayer' during the Triduuum.

48 posted on 03/06/2004 6:30:47 PM PST by kstewskis ( "The Passion of The Christ" is here....and no I'm NOT giving up Mel for Lent!!)
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To: kstewskis
I attended a class taught by Fr. Fragomeni when he was still in Albany NY. I think it(the class) was Astrology and Religion or something like that. He had a psychologist speak to us about Jung. Now, that was long ago...perhaps he's had a conversion.
49 posted on 03/06/2004 8:00:45 PM PST by cielo
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To: kstewskis
Well, Phx has a new Bishop now and...

Seriously, gather some like-minded people from your parish, study the relevant documents, have high-ended dignified conversions with your pastor concerning any continuing liturgical/other abuses, document said efforts and failures for corrections (if necessary).

In other words, play the dialogue game over time - leaving your emotions in check. Then, if necessary, write to the new Bishop with your concerns and documentation. Things might start to change then!

"Other abuses" could include this speaker (Priest). You have to be intelligent in this process though. The Bishop is still new and learning the Diocese. Well thought out and documented critiques from sober and faithful laity could help him out!

50 posted on 03/06/2004 11:25:21 PM PST by TotusTuus
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