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Therese Neumann, the Catholic Stigmatist
Autobiography of a Yogi (1946 edition) ^ | 1946 | Paramhansa Yogananda

Posted on 03/11/2004 8:39:44 PM PST by Gilead

(Original 1946 Edition)

by Paramhansa Yogananda

CHAPTER 39

Therese Neumann, the Catholic Stigmatist


"Return to india. I have waited for you patiently for fifteen years. Soon I shall swim out of the body and on to the Shining Abode. Yogananda, come!"

Sri Yukteswar's voice sounded startlingly in my inner ear as I sat in meditation at my Mt. Washington headquarters. Traversing ten thousand miles in the twinkling of an eye, his message penetrated my being like a flash of lightning.

Fifteen years! Yes, I realized, now it is 1935; I have spent fifteen years in spreading my guru's teachings in America. Now he recalls me.

That afternoon I recounted my experience to a visiting disciple. His spiritual development under Kriya Yoga was so remarkable that I often called him "saint," remembering Babaji's prophecy that America too would produce men and women of divine realization through the ancient yogic path.

This disciple and a number of others generously insisted on making a donation for my travels. The financial problem thus solved, I made arrangements to sail, via Europe, for India. Busy weeks of preparations at Mount Washington! In March, 1935 I had the Self-Realization Fellowship chartered under the laws of the State of California as a non-profit corporation. To this educational institution go all public donations as well as the revenue from the sale of my books, magazine, written courses, class tuition, and every other source of income.

"I shall be back," I told my students. "Never shall I forget America."

At a farewell banquet given to me in Los Angeles by loving friends, I looked long at their faces and thought gratefully, "Lord, he who remembers Thee as the Sole Giver will never lack the sweetness of friendship among mortals."

I sailed from New York on June 9, 19351 in the Europa. Two students accompanied me: my secretary, Mr. C. Richard Wright, and an elderly lady from Cincinnati, Miss Ettie Bletch. We enjoyed the days of ocean peace, a welcome contrast to the past hurried weeks. Our period of leisure was short-lived; the speed of modern boats has some regrettable features!

Like any other group of inquisitive tourists, we walked around the huge and ancient city of London. The following day I was invited to address a large meeting in Caxton Hall, at which I was introduced to the London audience by Sir Francis Younghusband. Our party spent a pleasant day as guests of Sir Harry Lauder at his estate in Scotland. We soon crossed the English Channel to the continent, for I wanted to make a special pilgrimage to Bavaria. This would be my only chance, I felt, to visit the great Catholic mystic, Therese Neumann of Konnersreuth.

Years earlier I had read an amazing account of Therese. Information given in the article was as follows:

(1) Therese, born in 1898, had been injured in an accident at the age of twenty; she became blind and paralyzed.

(2) She miraculously regained her sight in 1923 through prayers to St. Teresa, "The Little Flower." Later Therese Neumann's limbs were instantaneously healed.

(3) From 1923 onward, Therese has abstained completely from food and drink, except for the daily swallowing of one small consecrated wafer.

(4) The stigmata, or sacred wounds of Christ, appeared in 1926 on Therese's head, breast, hands, and feet. On Friday of every week thereafter, she has passed through the Passion of Christ, suffering in her own body all his historic agonies.

(5) Knowing ordinarily only the simple German of her village, during her Friday trances Therese utters phrases which scholars have identified as ancient Aramaic. At appropriate times in her vision, she speaks Hebrew or Greek.

(6) By ecclesiastical permission, Therese has several times been under close scientific observation. Dr. Fritz Gerlick, editor of a Protestant German newspaper, went to Konnersreuth to "expose the Catholic fraud," but ended up by reverently writing her biography.2

As always, whether in East or West, I was eager to meet a saint. I rejoiced as our little party entered, on July 16th, the quaint village of Konnersreuth. The Bavarian peasants exhibited lively interest in our Ford automobile (brought with us from America) and its assorted group—an American young man, an elderly lady, and an olive-hued Oriental with long hair tucked under his coat collar.

Therese's little cottage, clean and neat, with geraniums blooming by a primitive well, was alas! silently closed. The neighbors, and even the village postman who passed by, could give us no information. Rain began to fall; my companions suggested that we leave.

"No," I said stubbornly, "I will stay here until I find some clue leading to Therese."

Two hours later we were still sitting in our car amidst the dismal rain. "Lord," I sighed complainingly, "why didst Thou lead me here if she has disappeared?"

An English-speaking man halted beside us, politely offering his aid.

"I don't know for certain where Therese is," he said, "but she often visits at the home of Professor Wurz, a seminary master of Eichstatt, eighty miles from here."

The following morning our party motored to the quiet village of Eichstatt, narrowly lined with cobblestoned streets. Dr. Wurz greeted us cordially at his home; "Yes, Therese is here." He sent her word of the visitors. A messenger soon appeared with her reply.

"Though the bishop has asked me to see no one without his permission, I will receive the man of God from India."

Deeply touched at these words, I followed Dr. Wurz upstairs to the sitting room. Therese entered immediately, radiating an aura of peace and joy. She wore a black gown and spotless white head dress. Although her age was thirty-seven at this time, she seemed much younger, possessing indeed a childlike freshness and charm. Healthy, well-formed, rosy-cheeked, and cheerful, this is the saint that does not eat!

Therese greeted me with a very gentle handshaking. We both beamed in silent communion, each knowing the other to be a lover of God.

Dr. Wurz kindly offered to serve as interpreter. As we seated ourselves, I noticed that Therese was glancing at me with naive curiosity; evidently Hindus had been rare in Bavaria.

"Don't you eat anything?" I wanted to hear the answer from her own lips.

"No, except a consecrated rice-flour wafer, once every morning at six o'clock."

"How large is the wafer?"

"It is paper-thin, the size of a small coin." She added, "I take it for sacramental reasons; if it is unconsecrated, I am unable to swallow it."

"Certainly you could not have lived on that, for twelve whole years?"

"I live by God's light." How simple her reply, how Einsteinian!

"I see you realize that energy flows to your body from the ether, sun, and air."

A swift smile broke over her face. "I am so happy to know you understand how I live."

"Your sacred life is a daily demonstration of the truth uttered by Christ: 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.'"3

Again she showed joy at my explanation. "It is indeed so. One of the reasons I am here on earth today is to prove that man can live by God's invisible light, and not by food only."

"Can you teach others how to live without food?"

She appeared a trifle shocked. "I cannot do that; God does not wish it."

As my gaze fell on her strong, graceful hands, Therese showed me a little, square, freshly healed wound on each of her palms. On the back of each hand, she pointed out a smaller, crescent-shaped wound, freshly healed. Each wound went straight through the hand. The sight brought to my mind distinct recollection of the large square iron nails with crescent-tipped ends, still used in the Orient, but which I do not recall having seen in the West.

The saint told me something of her weekly trances. "As a helpless onlooker, I observe the whole Passion of Christ." Each week, from Thursday midnight until Friday afternoon at one o'clock, her wounds open and bleed; she loses ten pounds of her ordinary 121-pound weight. Suffering intensely in her sympathetic love, Therese yet looks forward joyously to these weekly visions of her Lord.

I realized at once that her strange life is intended by God to reassure all Christians of the historical authenticity of Jesus' life and crucifixion as recorded in the New Testament, and to dramatically display the ever-living bond between the Galilean Master and his devotees.

Professor Wurz related some of his experiences with the saint.

"Several of us, including Therese, often travel for days on sight-seeing trips throughout Germany," he told me. "It is a striking contrast—while we have three meals a day, Therese eats nothing. She remains as fresh as a rose, untouched by the fatigue which the trips cause us. As we grow hungry and hunt for wayside inns, she laughs merrily."

The professor added some interesting physiological details: "Because Therese takes no food, her stomach has shrunk. She has no excretions, but her perspiration glands function; her skin is always soft and firm."

At the time of parting, I expressed to Therese my desire to be present at her trance.

"Yes, please come to Konnersreuth next Friday," she said graciously. "The bishop will give you a permit. I am very happy you sought me out in Eichstatt."

Therese shook hands gently, many times, and walked with our party to the gate. Mr. Wright turned on the automobile radio; the saint examined it with little enthusiastic chuckles. Such a large crowd of youngsters gathered that Therese retreated into the house. We saw her at a window, where she peered at us, childlike, waving her hand.

From a conversation the next day with two of Therese's brothers, very kind and amiable, we learned that the saint sleeps only one or two hours at night. In spite of the many wounds in her body, she is active and full of energy. She loves birds, looks after an aquarium of fish, and works often in her garden. Her correspondence is large; Catholic devotees write her for prayers and healing blessings. Many seekers have been cured through her of serious diseases.

Her brother Ferdinand, about twenty-three, explained that Therese has the power, through prayer, of working out on her own body the ailments of others. The saint's abstinence from food dates from a time when she prayed that the throat disease of a young man of her parish, then preparing to enter holy orders, be transferred to her own throat.

On Thursday afternoon our party drove to the home of the bishop, who looked at my flowing locks with some surprise. He readily wrote out the necessary permit. There was no fee; the rule made by the Church is simply to protect Therese from the onrush of casual tourists, who in previous years had flocked on Fridays by the thousands.

We arrived Friday morning about nine-thirty in Konnersreuth. I noticed that Therese's little cottage possesses a special glass-roofed section to afford her plenty of light. We were glad to see the doors no longer closed, but wide-open in hospitable cheer. There was a line of about twenty visitors, armed with their permits. Many had come from great distances to view the mystic trance.

Therese had passed my first test at the professor's house by her intuitive knowledge that I wanted to see her for spiritual reasons, and not just to satisfy a passing curiosity.

My second test was connected with the fact that, just before I went upstairs to her room, I put myself into a yogic trance state in order to be one with her in telepathic and televisic rapport. I entered her chamber, filled with visitors; she was lying in a white robe on the bed. With Mr. Wright following closely behind me, I halted just inside the threshold, awestruck at a strange and most frightful spectacle.

Blood flowed thinly and continuously in an inch-wide stream from Therese's lower eyelids. Her gaze was focused upward on the spiritual eye within the central forehead. The cloth wrapped around her head was drenched in blood from the stigmata wounds of the crown of thorns. The white garment was redly splotched over her heart from the wound in her side at the spot where Christ's body, long ages ago, had suffered the final indignity of the soldier's spear-thrust.

Therese's hands were extended in a gesture maternal, pleading; her face wore an expression both tortured and divine. She appeared thinner, changed in many subtle as well as outward ways. Murmuring words in a foreign tongue, she spoke with slightly quivering lips to persons visible before her inner sight.

As I was in attunement with her, I began to see the scenes of her vision. She was watching Jesus as he carried the cross amidst the jeering multitude. 4 Suddenly she lifted her head in consternation: the Lord had fallen under the cruel weight. The vision disappeared. In the exhaustion of fervid pity, Therese sank heavily against her pillow.

At this moment I heard a loud thud behind me. Turning my head for a second, I saw two men carrying out a prostrate body. But because I was coming out of the deep superconscious state, I did not immediately recognize the fallen person. Again I fixed my eyes on Therese's face, deathly pale under the rivulets of blood, but now calm, radiating purity and holiness. I glanced behind me later and saw Mr. Wright standing with his hand against his cheek, from which blood was trickling.

"Dick," I inquired anxiously, "were you the one who fell?"

"Yes, I fainted at the terrifying spectacle."

"Well," I said consolingly, "you are brave to return and look upon the sight again."

Remembering the patiently waiting line of pilgrims, Mr. Wright and I silently bade farewell to Therese and left her sacred presence.5

The following day our little group motored south, thankful that we were not dependent on trains, but could stop the Ford wherever we chose throughout the countryside. We enjoyed every minute of a tour through Germany, Holland, France, and the Swiss Alps. In Italy we made a special trip to Assisi to honor the apostle of humility, St. Francis. The European tour ended in Greece, where we viewed the Athenian temples, and saw the prison in which the gentle Socrates6 had drunk his death potion. One is filled with admiration for the artistry with which the Greeks have everywhere wrought their very fancies in alabaster.

We took ship over the sunny Mediterranean, disembarking at Palestine. Wandering day after day over the Holy Land, I was more than ever convinced of the value of pilgrimage. The spirit of Christ is all-pervasive in Palestine; I walked reverently by his side at Bethlehem, Gethsemane, Calvary, the holy Mount of Olives, and by the River Jordan and the Sea of Galilee.

Our little party visited the Birth Manger, Joseph's carpenter shop, the tomb of Lazarus, the house of Martha and Mary, the hall of the Last Supper. Antiquity unfolded; scene by scene, I saw the divine drama that Christ once played for the ages.

On to Egypt, with its modern Cairo and ancient pyramids. Then a boat down the narrow Red Sea, over the vasty Arabian Sea; lo, India!

 

 

1 The remarkable inclusion here of a complete date is due to the fact that my secretary, Mr. Wright, kept a travel diary.
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2 Other books on her life are Therese Neumann: A Stigmatist of Our Day, and Further Chronicles of Therese Neumann, both by Friedrich Ritter von Lama (Milwaukee: Bruce Pub. Co.).
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3 Matthew 4:4. Man's body battery is not sustained by gross food (bread) alone, but by the vibratory cosmic energy (word, or AUM). The invisible power flows into the human body through the gate of the medulla oblongata. This sixth bodily center is located at the back of the neck at the top of the five spinal chakras (Sanskrit for "wheels" or centers of radiating force). The medulla is the principal entrance for the body's supply of universal life force (AUM), and is directly connected with man's power of will, concentrated in the seventh or Christ Consciousness center (Kutastha) in the third eye between the eyebrows. Cosmic energy is then stored up in the brain as a reservoir of infinite potentialities, poetically mentioned in the Vedas as the "thousand-petaled lotus of light." The Bible invariably refers to AUM as the "Holy Ghost" or invisible life force which divinely upholds all creation. "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"-I Corinthians 6:19.
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4 During the hours preceding my arrival, Therese had already passed through many visions of the closing days in Christ's life. Her entrancement usually starts with scenes of the events which followed the Last Supper. Her visions end with Jesus' death on the cross or, occasionally, with his entombment.
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5 Therese has survived the Nazi persecution, and is still present in Konnersreuth, according to 1945 American news dispatches from Germany.
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6 A passage in Eusebius relates an interesting encounter between Socrates and a Hindu sage. The passage runs: "Aristoxenus, the musician, tells the following story about the Indians. One of these men met Socrates at Athens, and asked him what was the scope of his philosophy. 'An inquiry into human phenomena,' replied Socrates. At this the Indian burst out laughing. 'How can a man inquire into human phenomena,' he said, 'when he is ignorant of divine ones?'" The Aristoxenus mentioned was a pupil of Aristotle, and a noted writer on harmonics. His date is 330 B.C.
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Chapter 40



TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 03/11/2004 8:39:44 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Gilead
This sounds occultic.


2 posted on 03/11/2004 9:06:37 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
It sounds phony.

Q. Fraulein Neumann, you say you have not eaten nor drunk anything since 1926. Do you ever experience hunger?

A. I have absolutely no desire to eat. I believe it is God's will that I should not eat or drink.

This interview took place in 1952. The entire interview is here.

3 posted on 03/11/2004 9:18:54 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Tell me. Do you experience normal bowel movements?

[At this point, the interpreter balked. Apparently, however, Fraulein Neumann understood enough English to get the idea. She answered.]

A. You mean do I use the toilet? No, I have not since September 1930.

Q. I don't quite understand. You said you stopped taking nourishment in 1926. Now you say you stopped having normal bowel movements in 1930? How do you explain the period from 1926 to 1930 when you were having bowel movements but were not eating?

[She smiled and shrugged her shoulders.]

A. God can do anything.

4 posted on 03/11/2004 9:22:59 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
http://www.catholictreasures.com/descrip/10804.html

THERESE NEUMANN MYSTIC AND STIGMATIST

Adalbert Albert Vogl. These are the personal memories of a life-time family friend who was also an official witness in the process leading to the Cause for Therese Neumann's beatification. Here Mr. Vogl describes Therese's Passion ecstasies, her stigmata, miraculous receptions of Holy Communion, her abstinence from 1926 to 1962 from all food and drink except the Eucharistic Host, her living without sleep, her visions and the language phenomenon, her mystical recognition of priests and relics, her cures and prophecies, and her bilocation and other mystical gifts. Therese was at the pinnacle of world fame during the Nazi regime which she and her friends opposed vigorously, and an informative chapter is included showing the proportion of voters who brought Hitler to power had very few Catholics among them. 72 phenomenal black and white and color photographs graphically portray the wounds and bleeding and the Passion she experienced over 700 times. Although not told in this book, there is an often recounted story which tells that Therese is the mystic who prophecied that because of the mercy of God, bombs would not fall on U.S. soil as a reward for the generosity of the American people to many other countries of the world. But the chastisement that would befall America would be due to natural disasters and financial loss. Therese lived between 1898 and 1962 and offered her sufferings in reparation for the horrors of this century. Her life appears to be a pure gift of God as an inspiration to all of us. 172 pp. PB. ITEM #10804 $16.50

5 posted on 03/11/2004 9:58:08 PM PST by Gilead
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To: PetroniusMaximus
SEVERAL RARE PHOTOS

Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, 1947

Story of Therese Neumann

by Albert Paul Shimberg
Photo

Price: $19.95 Hardcover

Why was Hitler consumed with hatred for this German Catholic stigmatist?

Because at the height of the Nazi terror, the tremendous faith she inspired among Catholics posed a mortal threat to Hitler’s regime.

Consider: for more than 20 years she lived without food or even water, sustained only by Holy Communion—a fact confirmed by medical experts. On 35 Fridays each year she received mystic visions in which she suffered the Passion of Christ—receiving also His five wounds. And, with her gift for “expiatory” suffering, in which she took on the illnesses and sufferings of others, she was the instrument of dozens of miracles and cures.

As her fame grew, so did the Nazi’s obsession with her. Yet their efforts to kill her were repeatedly thwarted by ordinary citizens. She escaped unharmed when Nazi tanks turned their guns on her home village of Konnersreuth. Once the war was over, more than 12,000 Allied soldiers flocked to see her, many testifying to her stigmata and mystic ecstasies. One Jewish officer was inspired to convert after seeing one of her Good Friday visions.

This riveting book, first published in 1947, is the most reliable biography of Therese Neumann, based on extensive testimony by family, friends, and by some skeptics whose minds were changed. Author A.P. Shimberg, an editor for Milwaukee’s Catholic Herald Citizen, also relied on the extensive research of Therese’s German chronicler, Dr. Fritz Gerlich, who was murdered by the Gestapo.
Revelations

SEVERAL RARE PHOTOS

Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, 1947


Price: $19.95

Hardcover


Roman Catholic Books
A Division of Catholic Media Apostolate
Post Office Box 2286
Fort Collins, CO 80522-2286

Copyright © 2000 Catholic Media Apostolate


6 posted on 03/11/2004 10:01:46 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Gilead
http://www.booksforcatholics.com/listings/l0056.html
7 posted on 03/11/2004 10:02:07 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Gilead
***Story of Therese Neumann***

"When the Spirit of truth comes,... He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you." - John 16

The Holy Spirit always glorifies and puts the spotlight on the Son - not some man (or woman)and their gifts and abilities.

Many of the items listed are abilities possessed in occult, spiritist and mediumistic circles especially:

extraordinary visions of Gospel (i.e. historical) events—including architecture, dress, manners, even language. What one expert testified about her detailed knowledge of the temple in Jerusalem

Linguists confirm her accurate use, during her visions, of Aramaic and other foreign languages she had never learned

Her other gifts—including bilocation, discernment of relics, seeing her guardian angel and others’ seeing into past and future

I haven't read the book, but I'm sorry, based on what you've posted this just creeps me out.

8 posted on 03/11/2004 11:24:35 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
It is a pagan explanation of an experience I've heard of about other Catholics. St. Therese of the Little Flower subsisted on solely on Eucharist ("consecrated bread") for many months. THat he has her call the Eucharist, "consecrated bread" shows he is putting his understanding into her mouth; I doubt she would have put it that way. To see how badly he chnanges words to fit his purposes, lok what he does to the gospel of Matthew in his footnotes!
9 posted on 03/12/2004 8:02:31 AM PST by dangus
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To: Gilead
Thank you. I think this is someone I should read more of... Any idea how advanced the cause for her sainthood is, or why it isn't further?
10 posted on 03/12/2004 8:04:51 AM PST by dangus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
>>"When the Spirit of truth comes,... He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you." - John 16

>>The Holy Spirit always glorifies and puts the spotlight on the Son - not some man (or woman)and their gifts and abilities. <<

Although the Indian author obviously rejected her message and focused on HER as a phenomenon, it should be obvious that the works done through her are to testify to Christian truths. Throughout Acts, we are taught of the many deeds and signs that were worked through the apostles. The same Holy Spirit that worked through them continues to work in the world today.

11 posted on 03/12/2004 8:24:54 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus
***That he has her call the Eucharist, "consecrated bread" shows he is putting his understanding into her mouth; I doubt she would have put it that way. ***

He seems to have left the experience with little or no consciousness that his spiritual practices and worship of false gods would send him to hell.

He seems to have not been told to turn from his sins and repent or turn from his idols and follow Jesus.

That to me is very telling.

When darkness and light come in contact THEY DON'T GET ALONG and smile at each other - there will be conflict. Light exposes darkness and darkness hates it.

When a person involved with pagan/occultic practices comes in contact with a true Christian, living in the power of the Spirit, the former will go into one of three modes:

Fight, Flight or Repent.

The fact that this pagan could be so comfortable around this lady, with no conviction of sin on his part, indicates strongly that the power in her life was not of God.

"...Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness." 2nd Corinthians 11
12 posted on 03/12/2004 8:28:29 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
You apply the "Satan" label pretty quickly to a lady who will likely be made a Saint one day.

I pray for you.
13 posted on 03/12/2004 9:01:50 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Gilead
***You apply the "Satan" label pretty quickly to a lady who will likely be made a Saint one day. ***


I honestly do not mean to offend you. In my post I offered some reasons for my opinion.

The Bible counsels us not blindly accept things but to test all things and hold fast to what is good.

"...but test everything; hold fast what is good."
1st Thes 5


I would like to hear your opinion or refutation of the substance of my post.

14 posted on 03/12/2004 9:14:11 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
>>When a person involved with pagan/occultic practices comes in contact with a true Christian, living in the power of the Spirit, the former will go into one of three modes: Fight, Flight or Repent.<<

I agree, but don't you see, he has chosen to flee! She has so shocked his soul, that he cannot bear to live in reality.

She says, "This is the body of Christ," and he tells himself that she said, "This is consecrated bread."

The gospel says, "This is the Holy Spirit," and because of her, he cannot say the gospel is wrong. Instead, he denies reality itself saying instead that the gospel says, "This is OHM, the sacred vibration."

While outside, he pretends to be at peace, inside he has covered his ears, and run screaming away from her. She is so convicting of his existence, that he must deny reality itself.
15 posted on 03/12/2004 10:08:03 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus
***I agree, but don't you see, he has chosen to flee! She has so shocked his soul, that he cannot bear to live in reality.***

No, read it again, he says...

"Remembering the patiently waiting line of pilgrims, Mr. Wright and I silently bade farewell to Therese and left her sacred presence"

... no fleeing there.


He is quite obviously a spiritist with his yogic trances, telepathy and so forth, yet she fails to warn him of his certain doom should he not repent

16 posted on 03/12/2004 10:34:09 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
What makes you believe that he does not accept Jesus Christ?
17 posted on 03/13/2004 2:08:43 PM PST by Gilead
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To: dangus
The gospel says, "This is the Holy Spirit," and because of her, he cannot say the gospel is wrong. Instead, he denies reality itself saying instead that the gospel says, "This is OHM, the sacred vibration."

Different words being used to describe the same thing. If you are so caught up in language, then you should only be reading the bible in its original Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew.

18 posted on 03/13/2004 2:11:24 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Gilead
***What makes you believe that he does not accept Jesus Christ?***

My friend,

Could you outline for me what you believe it means to accept Jesus Christ, or what one must do to become a follower of Jesus Christ.

19 posted on 03/13/2004 8:40:12 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Gilead
Ahhhhh... no. If you believe they are the same thing, fine, but I don't and I'm sure Therese did not. Anyway, If you said the "The thief stole my wallet," and I believe Steve is the theif, it is still wrong of me to insert my beliefs into what you said and say you said that Steve took your wallet. That is me ascribimg my beliefs to you. He did not even say the "This is the Holy Spirit, which is the name by which Christians know AUM." He claimed the gospel speaks of the AUM and sacred vibration, which it does not.
20 posted on 03/13/2004 9:26:38 PM PST by dangus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
I'm afraid you missed what I said. His fleeing from her is not in a physical manner. He cannot deny what he has seen, so he has changed the meaning of what he has seen. In this way he has fled from the reality of what she has spoken. She has spoken and given witness to Christianity, and he knows the truth of what she has done, so he has, in his own mind, changed what she has said so he can think of her as having given witness to something she in fact must have opposed; he has refused to live in the truth. It is a subtler way of fleeing than fleeing in body, but it is no less a denial of what she has said.
21 posted on 03/13/2004 9:39:07 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus
I realized at once that her strange life is intended by God to reassure all Christians of the historical authenticity of Jesus' life and crucifixion as recorded in the New Testament, and to dramatically display the ever-living bond between the Galilean Master and his devotees.

What about these words do you not understand? Is it the author's unusual Indian name that offends you the most?

22 posted on 03/14/2004 1:47:05 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Gilead
No, get past it. Why must you play the race card? Who mentionned anything about race? I happen to love the Indian people. If anything, I am biased *towards* them, because my experience with many Indian people has been so positive, I almost take for granted any given Indian persion I meet is going to freindly, warm, peaceful, decent and respectful. I know many who are wonderful Christians, and have liked many who were not. But I respect more someone who practices Hindu than someone who tells me that Hindu and Christianity are the same thing, for they are not.

BUt suppose I did not have warm feelings towards Indians. Suppose I only knew a few Indians and happened to get along with them quite poorly. What's that to you? Have I said anything debasing Indians in general, or do you accuse me of bigotry just because I find fault in this one man?

Let me tell a parable, a fantasy. Suppose Jim believes in UFOs. Robert sees a dragon swoop down from the sky, and burn an entire village. He sees its yellow eyes, its lizard-like skin, its great big wings. He tells Jim, "Go warn the king... there is a dragon here!"

Jim says to himself, "I don't believe in dragons!" But Rob has shown him the village that was burnt to cinders, and the giant dragon egg in the middle of town. He sees the damage and destruction. He even hears the dragon's wings in the distance.

And yet Jim says, "I don't believe it was a dragon. It was a UFO! THey probably have weapons which make great fires. And they fly in the sky. And I bet that 'egg' is some sort of landing pod. And that noise on the wind must be its engines." And so Jim reports to the authority that Rob told him a UFO destroyed the village.

Has Jim told the truth? No. Has Jim even respected Robert? No, he has presumed Robert is a fool! He would have been telling the truth if he said, "Robert says he has seen a dragon; I believe it to be a UFO." But he didn't say this. Even if his intentions were well, he lied. He said "Robert says he has seen a UFO" even though Robert does not believe in UFOs.

That is what the Indian has done. The Holy Spirit is not AUM; it is not a "great vibration." And the Eucharist is not merely consecrated bread. He has seen incredible things, but has disbelieved what the woman has told him. So he reports that it is the things that he believes in him.

23 posted on 03/14/2004 9:41:08 PM PST by dangus
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