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Reincarnation: Past Lives of Jesus Christ and John the Baptist
Autobiography of a Yogi (1946 edition) ^ | 1946 | Paramhansa Yogananda

Posted on 03/12/2004 8:56:05 PM PST by Gilead


"Thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness."1 In these words to John the Baptist, and in asking John to baptize him, Jesus was acknowledging the divine rights of his guru.

From a reverent study of the Bible from an Oriental viewpoint,2 and from intuitional perception, I am convinced that John the Baptist was, in past lives, the guru of Christ. There are numerous passages in the Bible which infer that John and Jesus in their last incarnations were, respectively, Elijah and his disciple Elisha. (These are the spellings in the Old Testament. The Greek translators spelled the names as Elias and Eliseus; they reappear in the New Testament in these changed forms.)

The very end of the Old Testament is a prediction of the reincarnation of Elijah and Elisha: "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord."3 Thus John (Elijah), sent "before the coming . . . of the Lord," was born slightly earlier to serve as a herald for Christ. An angel appeared to Zacharias the father to testify that his coming son John would be no other than Elijah (Elias).

"But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. . . . And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him4 in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."5

Jesus twice unequivocally identified Elijah (Elias) as John: "Elias is come already, and they knew him not. . . . Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." 6 Again, Christ says: "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."7

When John denied that he was Elias (Elijah), 8 he meant that in the humble garb of John he came no longer in the outward elevation of Elijah the great guru. In his former incarnation he had given the "mantle" of his glory and his spiritual wealth to his disciple Elisha. "And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee. . . . And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him."9

The roles became reversed, because Elijah-John was no longer needed to be the ostensible guru of Elisha-Jesus, now perfected in divine realization.

When Christ was transfigured on the mountain10 it was his guru Elias, with Moses, whom he saw. Again, in his hour of extremity on the cross, Jesus cried out the divine name: "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias. . . . Let us see whether Elias will come to save him."11

 

1 Matthew 3:15.
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2 Many Biblical passages reveal that the law of reincarnation was understood and accepted. Reincarnational cycles are a more reasonable explanation for the different states of evolution in which mankind is found, than the common Western theory which assumes that something (consciousness of egoity) came out of nothing, existed with varying degrees of lustihood for thirty or ninety years, and then returned to the original void. The inconceivable nature of such a void is a problem to delight the heart of a medieval Schoolman.
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3 Malachi 4:5.
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4"Before him," i.e., "before the Lord."
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5 Luke 1:13-17.
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6 Matthew 17:12-13.
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7 Matthew 11:13-14.
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8 John 1:21.
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9 II Kings 2:9-14.
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10 Matthew 17:3.
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11 Matthew 27:46-49.
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TOPICS: Eastern Religions; Other Christian; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: faithandphilosophy; reincarnation

1 posted on 03/12/2004 8:56:06 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Gilead
Absurd.
2 posted on 03/12/2004 9:15:03 PM PST by newberger
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Gilead
Do you, yourself, know; and can/will you state, what your reason was for posting this (and that other post from the same source) article? Thanks.

DG

p.s. Why did you pick a Hebrew nickname, which means "Mass (or hill) of witness?"
4 posted on 03/12/2004 10:21:26 PM PST by DoorGunner ("A KERRY Ain't Nothin' But a Sandwich")
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To: Gilead
Another case of where man tries to mix pagan worship with the Word of God. If the author was a scholar of the Old Testament he would know this is what Israel did-right before being led into captivity.
5 posted on 03/12/2004 11:26:05 PM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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To: Salve Regina; newberger
What is absurd or inane about this? These scriptural passages speak for themselves. Can you make a reasoned response or explanation for why Jesus referred to John as Elijah, or why the OT said that Elijah would be sent before the "coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord"? Malachi 4:5.
6 posted on 03/13/2004 1:52:54 PM PST by Gilead
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To: DoorGunner
I posted this because it provides a congent explanation for why Jesus frequently referred to John the Baptist as being Elijah, and why the people watching him from the cross thought they heard Jesus calling out to Elijah.

I know this may be a challenge to conventional thinking, but the scriptural passages are so plain as day. That is why the only responses have been to make bald insults without addressing the scriptural passages in any way.

This also provides further Old Testament evidence (Malachi 4:5) that Jesus was indeed the Messiah.

Thank you for the respectful response.
7 posted on 03/13/2004 1:56:42 PM PST by Gilead
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To: HarleyD
Please provide any evidence of the author of this writing engaging in pagan worship. That is deeply insulting.
8 posted on 03/13/2004 1:57:57 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Gilead
"Please provide any evidence of the author of this writing engaging in pagan worship. That is deeply insulting."

I'll be happy to compile as soon as you can provide me with Biblical evidence of reincarnation. Chapter and verse please. If it isn't in the Bible it's pagan. Instead of being insulted I would suggest familiarizing yourself with God's word.

9 posted on 03/14/2004 11:34:05 AM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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To: Gilead
Correction: comply.
10 posted on 03/14/2004 11:35:22 AM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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To: Gilead; DoorGunner; Salve Regina; newberger; HarleyD
Gilead- 03/12/04

are you a Lurker or a former?
11 posted on 03/14/2004 12:07:50 PM PST by restornu ( "Faith...is daring the soul to go beyond what the eyes refuse to see."J.R.R. Tolkien)
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To: HarleyD; Gilead
(NIV)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of life leads upward for the wise to keep him from going down to the grave.

Footnotes
1. 15:24 Hebrew Sheol

(NASB)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of life leads upward for the wise That he may keep away from Sheol below.

(MSG)
Proverbs 15
24 Life ascends to the heights for the thoughtful--it's a clean about-face from descent into hell.

(AMP)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of the wise leads upward to life, that he may avoid [the gloom] in the depths of Sheol (Hades, the place of the dead).

(NLT)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of the wise leads to life above; they leave the grave behind.

Footnotes
1. 15:24 Hebrew Sheol.

(KJV)
Proverbs 15
24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

(NLV)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of life leads up for the wise, so he may keep away from hell below.

(ESV)
Proverbs 15
24The path of life leads upward for the prudent, that he may turn away from Sheol beneath.

(CEV)
Proverbs 15
24 All who are wise follow a road that leads upward to life
and away from death.

(NKJV)
Proverbs 15
24 The way of life winds upward for the wise, That he may turn away from hell below.

Footnotes
1. 15:24 Or Sheol

(KJ21)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of life is upward for the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

(ASV)
Proverbs 15
24 To the wise the way of life goeth upward, That he may depart from Sheol beneath.

(YLT)
Proverbs 15
24 A path of life [is] on high for the wise, To turn aside from Sheol beneath.

(DARBY)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of life is upwards for the wise, that he may depart from Sheol beneath.

(NIV-UK)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of life leads upward for the wise to keep him from going down to the grave.

(JPS)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of life goeth upward for the wise, that he may depart from the nether-world beneath.


path from the Hebrew
734 'orach o'-rakh
1) way, path
a) path, road
b) the path, way, passing of life (fig.)
c) way of living (fig.)
d) traveller, wayfarer (meton)


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 58 AV - way 26, path 25, highway 1, wayfaring man + 05674 08802 1, manner 1, race 1, ranks 1, traveller 1, troops 1; 58

the way - the path = way of living

(NIV)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked return to the grave(1), all the nations that forget God.

Footnotes
1. 9:17 Hebrew Sheol

(NASB)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

(AMP)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked shall be turned back [headlong into premature death] into Sheol (the place of the departed spirits of the wicked), even all the nations that forget or are forgetful of God.

(KJV)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

(NLV)
Psalm 9
17 The sinful, all the nations that forget God, will be turned back into the grave.

(ESV)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked shall return to Sheol, all the nations that forget God.

(NKJV)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, And all the nations that forget God.

(KJ21)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

(ASV)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked shall be turned back unto Sheol, Even all the nations that forget God.

(YLT)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked do turn back to Sheol, All nations forgetting God.

(DARBY)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked shall be turned into Sheol, all the nations that forget God.

(NIV-UK)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked return to the grave, all the nations that forget God.

(JPS)
Psalms 9
18 The wicked shall return to the nether-world, even all the nations that forget God.

turned from Hebrew
7725 shuwb shoob
1) to return, turn back
a) (Qal)
1) to turn back, return
a) to turn back
b) to return, come or go back
c) to return unto, go back, come back
d) of dying
e) of human relations (fig)
f) of spiritual relations (fig)


There's more to the above, but it's super long. The above is the first portion.

I just found it curious that Proverbs 15:24 indicates that the path of life, or the way one lives their life, allows one to ascend and 'depart' from the nether-world/sheol/hell.

Meanwhile, Psalms 9:18 indicates that the wicked are 'returned' back to the nether-world/sheol/hell

Just a possibility, mind you.

(JPS)
Proverbs 15
24 The path of life goeth upward for the wise, that he may depart from the nether-world beneath.

(ASV)
Proverbs 15
24 To the wise the way of life goeth upward, That he may depart from Sheol beneath.


(JPS)
Psalms 9
18 The wicked shall return to the nether-world, even all the nations that forget God.

(ASV)
Psalm 9
17 The wicked shall be turned back unto Sheol, Even all the nations that forget God.


The first set of verses:

If we look or think of heaven as being upward, then existence here on earth, might be viewed as being below, beneath. Could it be that what we think of as life here on earth is actually sheol,hell,the nether-world?

The first set also indicate that the way we live our lives, allows us to ascend up, away from the nether world/hell/sheol. Here on earth is the time when we 'live our lives' as far as being able to follow the path of life, or to follow 'the way' of life.


The second set of verses indicate that the wicked get returned to sheol/hell/the nether-world.

Do wicked people have to keep returning to hell/sheol/the nether-world -- earth, until they understand that they need to live righteous lives to escape this earth bound cycle?

Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

The spirit of Elias, being the same spirit as that of John the Baptist???

If YHWH incarnated to the earth as Yehoshua (which I doubt YHWH did), is there anything which would prevent YHWH from doing such a thing prior to the existence or after the existence of Yehoshua?

YHWH can do anything, and I would think He could do anything He wants as often as He sees fit to do it. Including re-incarnating as often as needed, or allowing a prophet or 'teacher' to reincarnate as often as needed.

"Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." (Confucianism. Mencius VII.A.4 )

Confucious predates Yehoshua by about 500 years.
12 posted on 03/14/2004 12:55:39 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) ( Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of Man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I don't see any other conclusion than that John the Baptist was Elijah. If he wasn't, the Malachi 4:5 propecy wasn't fulfilled. However, Jesus said that Elijah's spirit (soul) was in John the Baptist. Was Jesus lying? I don't think so.

The early church and Kabalah have supported reincarnation.

What other rational explanation could there be for the fact that some people seem to be born good, others born bad, and others in-between?

Jesus said that you only new follow the commandments - but if you want to be perfect, you must follow his path. I interpret that as meaning to free yourself of the chain of birth, death and rebirth.

I've looked at many of your past postings around here, and I am intrigued. If you don't mind my asking, of what belief system do you subscribe?
13 posted on 03/14/2004 1:42:38 PM PST by Gilead
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To: Salve Regina
YHWH is G-d. Yehoshua isn't G-d. Someday, you'll have to choose between them.

1 Kings 18:21 (JPS)
21 And Elijah came near unto all the people, and said: 'How long halt ye between two opinions? if YHWH be God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.' And the people answered him not a word.

Now a rephrase...

1 Kings 18:21
21 And Elijah came near unto all the people, and said: 'How long halt ye between two opinions? if YHWH be God, follow Him; but if Jesus, follow him.' And the people answered him not a word.

At some point you will have to make a choice. YHWH won't force Himself upon anyone, He wants people to go or return to Him, of their own choosing. ;)

Jeremiah 23:27
27 That think to cause My people to forget My name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal/Lord.

Now, why is it that 'YHWH' is removed yet Baal remains in most bibles?

Baal from the Hebrew
1168 Ba`al bah'-al the same as 1167; Baal, a Phoenician deity:--Baal, (plural) Baalim.
Baal = "lord"
1) supreme male divinity of the Phoenicians or Canaanites
2) a Reubenite
3) the son of Jehiel and grandfather of Saul
4) a town of Simeon, probably identical to Baalath-beer

from the Hebrew
1167 ba`al bah'-al from 1166; a master; hence, a husband, or (figuratively) owner (often used with another noun in modifications of this latter sense):--+ archer, + babbler, + bird, captain, chief man, + confederate, + have to do, + dreamer, those to whom it is due, + furious, those that are given to it, great, + hairy, he that hath it, have, + horseman, husband, lord, man, + married, master, person, + sworn, they of.
1) owner, husband, lord
a) owner
b) a husband
c) citizens, inhabitants
d) rulers, lords
e) (noun of relationship used to characterise - ie, master of dreams)
f) lord (used of foreign gods)

I wonder how many have replaced YHWH with Jesus?

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

15 posted on 03/14/2004 2:01:06 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) ( Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of Man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: Salve Regina
You might try refuting posts instead of being disparaging, but hey, you might actually have to think, and I sure wouldn't want you to hurt yourself!
17 posted on 03/14/2004 2:11:03 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) ( Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of Man, in whom there is no help.)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: Salve Regina
No problem. You didn't contribute anything intelligent anyway. (Y-a-w-n)
19 posted on 03/14/2004 2:49:26 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) ( Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of Man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: HarleyD
Do you have another explanation for these verses? Why would you say that anything not specifically stated in the Bible is pagan? IN the Old Testament, blood sacriffice was the atonement act for sin. There are many that would call that pagan.

Again, what is your interpretation that would bring a greater sense to the verses mentioned?

20 posted on 03/14/2004 3:35:42 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Salve Regina
Please just leave me out of it from now on.

You came to the thread and made comments. What is your interpretation of these most opaque concepts, and specifically of the words of Jesus about John?

It is not enough to just appear and say this is silly, that you feel sorry for someone who is discussing these things. You must make some coherent argument as to why it is silly and why it deserves your pity.

Otherwise, you look like a ignorant nay-sayer, without foundation for his opinions. And those who might hear you and turn away from these things that you deem they should, now may pay attention the other way because they see you helpless and without reason for your beliefs.

So you may very well accomplish the opposite of your intentions.

21 posted on 03/14/2004 3:55:15 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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