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It May Not Be Realized Yet
San Francisco Faith ^ | STEPHEN FRANKINI

Posted on 03/26/2004 6:47:24 PM PST by Land of the Irish

Helen (a pseudonym) describes herself as devoutly Catholic. She attends St. Anne's Parish Community in Discovery Bay in the diocese of Oakland. Most parishioners there, she says, are excited about the changes in the parish made by their pastor, Father Ron Schmit -- who is also chairman of the art and design committee (formerly referred to as the liturgy committee) for the new Oakland cathedral.

Helen, though, told me a few of the things that bothered her about the parish. For one thing, she said, Father Schmit is very proud that he will be acquiring for the parish a crucifix with a fully naked Jesus. (Another parishioner I talked to joked that perhaps this was Father's way of teaching the pope's Theology of the Body). Another thing that angered Helen happened at Christmas Eve Mass, when two girls, between the ages of ten and twelve, pretending to be Joseph and Mary, danced at Mass to a song with the words, "would you pick some grapes from the tree." Their dresses, Helen said, had slits that went up to the waist.

According to Helen, St Anne's sometimes uses leavened bread for its hosts. "It rose and was sweeter than it should be," she said. "My mother called the rectory, and they insist it's unleavened. They got the recipe off the internet."

Helen is not alone in her confusion about what is happening at her church.

Joyce Davis lived in Discovery Bay for six years, up until 2002, and was a parishioner of St. Anne's. She told me that the pastoral associate, Gail McGuire, reads the Gospel once a month at the Children's Mass and delivers the homily. Davis said she received a letter from Father Schmit in which he said that the reason McGuire does this is that she is "good with children" -- even though the children troop out of the church for the Liturgy of the Word. Once McGuire, said Davis, conducted a Eucharistic service (no Mass) and instructed everyone to bring his chair closer to the altar, thus forming a circle. "Everyone took their own Jesus from the ciborium. I couldn't do it," said Davis. "The Eucharist is something given, not taken."

Joyce also informed me that Father Schmit "pulled the kneelers, and pews out of the church, and had a garage sale." She also said Father Ron wrote in the Contra Costa Times in support of gay marriages. In the March 12, 2000 edition of the Contra Costa Times, Father Ron is quoted as being "saddened" that the bishops supported Proposition 22 banning gay marriages in California. He argued that divorce is also condemned in the Bible, but no one is clamoring to make divorce illegal.

According to Joyce, Father Schmit once said, "the Bible is just a bunch of stories." She said he often uses the term "Spirit of Vatican II" to justify his actions. Furthermore, as if Catholic moral teaching were simply suggestions, she claimed Schmit said, "in a perfect world, we could all follow the catechism".

In early February, Schmit delivered a controversial sermon regarding the nature of the parish as well as the priesthood. At the request of parishioners, within the bulletin he distributed a flier that lists the source material he used for his sermon, which Helen faxed to me. Among his sources was a book written by William J. Bausch, called The Parish of the Next Millenium. According to Helen, Schmit recommends this book to those interested in getting involved with ministry.

Schmit's handout includes the following quotations from Bausch's book: "The parish of the Christian millenium will be lay oriented, with shared and collaborative ministry." "It will be grounded not so much in ordination and office as in baptism and charism, wherein the baptismal call to discipleship binds believers in a common mission, and leadership, conferred with broader input, is respectful of others' gifts and ministries." "It will complete the process of moving from a pyramid to a koinonia (communion) church, with a better balance between male and female spiritualities and influence, greater female representation in decision making; there will be married priests and communion with one another across the earth, those gone before and those to come after." "It will stress the wisdom tradition rather than the intellectual, retrieve the mystical and return to a more holistic spirituality." "It will see a new priesthood within and among the people, a common communion in ministry." "It will move closer to a male-female partnership, a real balance of male-female cooperation and ministry."

After these quotations, the handout has these comments from Father Schmit: "Although these predictions by Fr. Bausch may not be realized as of yet, or as quickly as one might hope, nevertheless they should inspire and move all who minister for Jesus in the daily grind that is our human existence."

According to Helen, Father Schmit's teachings are very well received because, as she put it, many in the parish want to "get away from the authoritarian church" and have "lay people making decisions."

Another handout contained a "psalm," titled, "Do This in Memory of Me," from a book, Psalms for Zero Gravity by Edward Hays (Forest of Peace Publishing). The psalm begins: "Beloved Jesus, Lord of the Meal, I rejoice that a mother and a father, laboring for their family, begin and end each day's work saying, 'This is my body, this is my blood.' An adult child nursing a sick elderly parent with compassion and patient care says 'This is my body, this is my blood.'" The "psalm" then lists a preacher, a singer "forgetting self and the audience, making love out of the music," an artist, teacher, dancer, doctor, auto mechanic, office worker -- and all in their work say, "This is my body, this is my blood." In the last verse of the psalm, we learn that "ten thousand thousand consecrations occur daily, as all heaven's angels chime in, 'Holy, holy, holy,' to the thunderous praise of a thousand silent, silver bells. Listen. Listen."

Father Schmit's handout explains the "psalm" in the following "reflection": "Some theologians as late as the twelfth century held that there was no necessary connection between the consecration of bread and wine into Christ's Body and Blood and sacramental ordination. Gary Macy, chairman of the theology department of the University of San Diego and a scholar of the medieval period, discovered that the first document making a distinction between laity and ritually ordained clergy didn't appear until the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215."

Schmit's explanation continues: "To frequently make a gift of yourself in loving compassionate service is being faithful to Jesus, keeping the memory of his gift alive and doing what he did. While his gift-words are officially restricted to the ordained clergy today, Jesus' last request on the night before he died was restricted to neither time nor place, person nor circumstance. We all are called at every moment to live out that request."

I called St Anne's several times to ask Father Schmit to comment for this article. No one returned my calls.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholic; novus
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By their fruits (Novus Ordo), you shall know them.
1 posted on 03/26/2004 6:47:24 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; attagirl; ...
Ping
2 posted on 03/26/2004 6:49:39 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
Well, how long does it take before Helen has to run to the door? I would have been out of there with the "nude" Jesus.
3 posted on 03/26/2004 6:52:26 PM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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To: HarleyD
Good question. I wondered the same thing.
4 posted on 03/26/2004 7:04:16 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Land of the Irish; nickcarraway; pbear8
Does Bishop Vigneron get the San Francisco Faith delivered to his door?

I hope he sees this article.
5 posted on 03/26/2004 7:05:30 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Land of the Irish
From their Web site

Family Faith Formation
Catholic Youth Organization (CYO)
Financial Committee
Called and Gifted
Women's Fellowship
Pastoral Council
Music Ministry
Men's Spirituality
Parish Maintenance
Sacraments
Altar Servers
Men's Club
Social Justice
Greeters
Evangelization
Grief Ministry
Eucharistic Ministers
Hospitality
Faith Sharing
Lectors

There are many different ways to be involved in the community life of St. Anne's Parish. If you or a member of your family is interested in any of the above ministries please contact the church office.


Altar Servers
Help provide for the hospitality of the Sunday assembly by helping the presider, leading processions, setting the Holy Table, modeling the kind of service Jesus showed us at the last supper when he washed the disciples' feet. (from 1st Communion through adulthood.) We need those who would also help in forming and training servers.

Greeters
Welcome as Christ the members of the assembly, take up the collection and coordinate the procession of the gifts.

Eucharistic Ministers
Help with the hospitality of the Holy Table by distributing the Eucharist so that we can become that which nourishes us the body and blood of Christ.

Lectors
Proclaim the Scripture Readings so that the assembly might hear the living word of God.

I like the use of the word hospitality. Must be a hotel or country club.

Their Web site:

http://www.rc.net/oakland/stannes/
6 posted on 03/26/2004 7:07:26 PM PST by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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To: Land of the Irish; autopsy; Canticle_of_Deborah; Maximilian; Dajjal; Francisco; Jacinta; dsc; ...
Well Irish, of course we all know that this is merely the misapplication or misinterpretation of Vatican II - before which nothing ever existed - EXCEPT TRUTH - and if only "John Paul the Great" knew what was going on, or wasn't being held prisoner, or wasn't too busy kissing the Koran or excommunicating true (i.e. traditional) Catholics, all this would have beeen taken care of by the "Vatican" - or *would* have been if it wasn't for "schismatics" like you!

The truth of course is that it has gone to the dogs and is being run by monkeys:

"papal" audience of Wednesday, March 24, 2004

7 posted on 03/26/2004 7:22:54 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: franky
It is quite clear that this parish holds a Protestant eucharistic theology. The language simply is not capable of a Catholic interpretation.

This is as explicit a rejection of the Church's sacramental doctrines as can be made.
8 posted on 03/26/2004 7:24:20 PM PST by Loyalist (Liberate Hans Island from the Danish imperialist aggressors!)
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To: Viva Christo Rey
Do my eyes deceive me or is that scenario on its way to becoming X-rated?
9 posted on 03/26/2004 7:25:20 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Do my eyes deceive me or is that scenario on its way to becoming X-rated?

On the contrary, it is most likely the most innocent thing present today in what has tragically become a satanic pit.

As Pope Paul IV so aptly quoted the Prophet Daniel:

The Abomination of the Desolation in the Holy Place.

10 posted on 03/26/2004 7:34:44 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: Viva Christo Rey
I recognize each of them! From left to right: Weakland, Mahoney, Pilla, and (bringing up the rear, as always) Hubbard.
11 posted on 03/26/2004 7:40:56 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Land of the Irish; All
Here is what the Pope said about Archbishop Lefebvre and the bishops he consecrated, in his Ecclesia Dei letter: "The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, 'comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit.'"

Of course the letter is NOT infallible. It is, in fact, wrong as well as reckless, condemning true Tradition while praising something called "living Tradition"--which he allows to be radical. What the Pope praises as living Tradition is in reality a revolution--a destruction of Tradition, stuff like this Fr. Ron's bizarre approach--which the Holy See seems to think is blessed by the Holy Spirit.

But Vatican I made it very clear: "For the Holy Spirit was not given to the Successors of Peter that by His revelation they might disclose new doctrine, but that by His help they might guard the revelation transmitted by the apostles and the deposit of faith." In other words, the Pontiff has no divine protection when he proclaims the new, but ONLY when he PROTECTS what has been handed-down already. This is what this Pontiff doesn't do.
13 posted on 03/26/2004 8:00:42 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Romulus
a naked crucifix would be vastly preferable as the norm, for many sound theological reasons.

Do you care to elaborate why a naked crucifix would be preferable?

14 posted on 03/26/2004 8:03:26 PM PST by Grey Ghost II
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To: Land of the Irish; Canticle_of_Deborah
I recognize each of them! From left to right: Weakland, Mahoney, Pilla, and (bringing up the rear, as always) Hubbard.

A good eye!

Any idea who these clowns are?

St. James the Greater Church, Dogtown, Missouri, March 17, 2004

15 posted on 03/26/2004 8:03:27 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: Grey Ghost II
Do you care to elaborate why a naked crucifix would be preferable?

Maybe because, the majority of Amchurch bishops and priests would find it "enjoyable".

16 posted on 03/26/2004 8:10:33 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Romulus
Do you have one of these hanging in St. Patrick's Church? I've never seen one in there. If not, why don't you broach the subject with your pastor?

17 posted on 03/26/2004 8:19:14 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Viva Christo Rey
Any idea who these clowns are?

Yes, from left to right, McCarrick and O'Malley.

These "Irish" prelates really make me proud of my ancestry.

18 posted on 03/26/2004 8:32:30 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Religion Moderator; Land of the Irish
Are you aware that the crucifix in my post that you deleted in your ignorance was carved by Michelangelo? Are we to be not allowed to post images of the noblest works of religious art in the Western tradition? What on earth are you thinking? I'm disgusted to see prudery of this sort -- grounded in a gross misunderstanding of human sexuality -- prevailing in a forum supposedly dedicated to serious religious discussion. Explain yourself and your phobic response to a reverent presentation of scriptural truth.

Pathetic.
19 posted on 03/26/2004 8:37:32 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Land of the Irish
We can't afford original Michelangelos.

I regret if you find it offensive -- mostly because it implies something disordered in your ability to receive scripture and authentic theology.

I am sorry to be angry with you, but such a grave lack of discernment in one supposedly devoted to Tradition disappoints me to the bottom of my soul.
20 posted on 03/26/2004 8:41:35 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Land of the Irish
These "Irish" prelates really make me proud of my ancestry.

Yes, but we all know that it is the Modernist "anti-Jesuits" that it's REALLY hard to live down!

;-)

21 posted on 03/26/2004 8:45:06 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: Grey Ghost II
Because it more fully conveys the scriptural truth and theological mystery of the crucifixion. It would have been so cool if Mel had found himself capable of this. Maybe people in general are simply incapable of bearing that much truth all at once. That's their misfortune.
22 posted on 03/26/2004 8:45:52 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Romulus
We can't afford original Michelangelos.

Step across Canal Street, three blocks away, and into the French Quarter. I'm sure you'll find a street artist willing to give you whatever you desire, for a very affordable price. Then donate it to St. Patrick's.

I will be anxiously looking for your donation, when I return to New Orleans.

23 posted on 03/26/2004 8:49:36 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Romulus
Because it more fully conveys the scriptural truth and theological mystery of the crucifixion.

Theological mystery???

Who are you kidding!!?

24 posted on 03/26/2004 8:52:55 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: Romulus
Christ was crucified naked. That is the reality.

I agree with your sentiments here. The theological reality should not be obscured.

25 posted on 03/26/2004 9:01:36 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: Land of the Irish; Religion Moderator
Please spare yourself the indifferentist argument that all human nakedness is pornographic, lest you make our crucified Lord a an obscene exhibitionist. Instead, do me and yourself the honor of a thoughtful response worthy of this deadly serious topic, if you can.

I'll be happy to see you next time you come to St. Patrick's. Perhaps you'll sit in on one of the Advanced Discussion groups I moderate every month, the most recent of which included a display of the same image you find so scandalous. I'm pleased to say it provoked an intelligent and reverent response that might prove enlightening to you.

Here's a little something to leave you with. Cover your eyes!


26 posted on 03/26/2004 9:08:41 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Does Bishop Vigneron get the San Francisco Faith delivered to his door?

Don't know, only met him once at the funeral of my retired pastor. I'm sure someone has sent this to him by now.

27 posted on 03/26/2004 9:09:45 PM PST by pbear8 (no complaining...Thanks be to God)
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To: sinkspur; Romulus; Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; ...

How low will they make Him go?

28 posted on 03/26/2004 9:10:32 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Viva Christo Rey
I'm not kidding. The crucifixion is a deeply theological event. It's precisely Christ's complete gift of self in the crucifixion that makes the nuptial gift of self meaningful at all.
29 posted on 03/26/2004 9:11:26 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: sinkspur
Christ was crucified naked. That is the reality.

Didn't John cover his nakedness? I can't find the verse.

30 posted on 03/26/2004 9:12:21 PM PST by Aliska
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To: sinkspur
I agree with your sentiments here. The theological reality should not be obscured.

Thank you. I look forward to your discernment from this to an understanding that marital contraception is wrong precisely because it proposes a lie about the way marriage images Christ's unreserved gift of self to his Spouse.

31 posted on 03/26/2004 9:14:45 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Aliska
Me neither.
32 posted on 03/26/2004 9:15:11 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Land of the Irish
I'm with you on those crucifixes. I read that the twisted crucifix was a medieval witchcraft symbol. I don't know if that is true, probably not, but there was a book written by a traditionalist about it that is hard to find that I got from the library on inter-library loan. Wish I could remember the author but I can't at the moment.
33 posted on 03/26/2004 9:18:16 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Religion Moderator; Land of the Irish
Having been declined the courtesy of a response, be advised that I intend to re-post the image you deleted, unless you restore it first.
34 posted on 03/26/2004 9:20:11 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Romulus
Please spare yourself the indifferentist argument that all human nakedness is pornographic

Why don't you post pictures of the naked Blessed Virgin or a naked St. Joseph and call it holy?

35 posted on 03/26/2004 9:22:27 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Aliska
Wish I could remember the author but I can't at the moment.

Was it by the Abbe' Roux or Leroux - I can't quite remember either but the staff/crucifix was supposed to be a mockery and a symbol of the antichrist.

36 posted on 03/26/2004 9:23:04 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: Romulus
Well, you can get your naked Jesus calendar here (an apologetic website for a naked Jesus here
37 posted on 03/26/2004 9:23:45 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Land of the Irish
The downward facing crosses are disturbing. Heaven is upward, and the downward positioning is not victorious. Christ is conquering hell, not bowing or succumbing to it.

I see other disturbing theological interpretations which I won't share.
38 posted on 03/26/2004 9:24:59 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Viva Christo Rey
a mockery and a symbol of the antichrist.

We're on the same page.

39 posted on 03/26/2004 9:26:23 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Romulus; Religion Moderator
be advised that I intend to re-post the image you deleted, unless you restore it first.

Then be advised that I will ask, again, that it be removed. Name me one Catholic Basilica that displays a crucifix of a naked Jesus.

40 posted on 03/26/2004 9:32:24 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
We're on the same page. Yes, but isn't it amazing the absolute filth, blasphemy and perversion against Our Lord and Our Lady and the TRUE Church that can be posted in this forum, and when one rightly and with justifiable anger replies, one gets one head lopped off for being "politically incorrect"!
41 posted on 03/26/2004 9:33:06 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: Romulus; Religion Moderator; Land of the Irish
Then be advised that I will ask, again, that it (the naked image of Christ) be removed.

AS WILL I!!!

42 posted on 03/26/2004 9:35:57 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: Land of the Irish
That's a truly disgusting suggestion.

To do so would be unscriptural and -- for that, as well as for other reasons -- theologically disordered. Mary and Joseph's marriage of unreserved mutual gift of self did not require a sexual dimension to be fully authentic.

The images you propose would convey nothing but the trivial and negligible point that from time to time human nature requires all of us to be naked. The fact that Mary and Joseph in their humanity were not exempt from these exigencies is not theologically meaningful. Being fully human, Our Lord also made himself subject to these demands, but there too his nakedness is not "interesting" unles it conveys a theological truth, as in the iconography of his infancy, baptism, or yes, crucifixion.
43 posted on 03/26/2004 9:36:11 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Romulus
Taunting a moderator is a quick path to the Outer Darkness.
44 posted on 03/26/2004 9:39:09 PM PST by drstevej
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To: Aliska
Thanks, but I prefer to get my Christian art from people seeking to be conformed to Christ, rather than the other way round.
45 posted on 03/26/2004 9:39:50 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Viva Christo Rey
No, it was a traditionalist catholic from England and not Michael Davies. One of the channel Islands.
46 posted on 03/26/2004 9:40:03 PM PST by Aliska
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To: drstevej
"Be not afraid"
47 posted on 03/26/2004 9:40:22 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Viva Christo Rey; Religion Moderator; Land of the Irish
AS WILL I!!!

Yet none of you can explain why, nor even has the integrity to be ashamed at that fact.

48 posted on 03/26/2004 9:42:30 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Viva Christo Rey
It was Piers Compton, "The Broken Cross: Hidden Hand In the Vatican", Channel Islands, Neville Spearman, 1981, p. 72.
49 posted on 03/26/2004 9:43:00 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Romulus; Religion Moderator
Having been to FR Purgatory five times, I can offer you a few days at my time share. You may need accommodations if you continue to taunt the RM.
50 posted on 03/26/2004 9:44:04 PM PST by drstevej
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