Who Are the ‘Real’ Catholics?

MSNBC ^ | 4-13-04 | melinda henneberger

[Catholicguy]

I was watching EWTN the other night and saw a woman assume the ambo where she proceeded to read the Gospel. This occured during the Easter Vigil.

"Wait on the Lord" is my operating motto. I have no expectation things will be set right during my lfetime.

[Catholicguy]

:). Thanks, brother.

[narses]

I agree, in the Lord's time, not ours.

[Aquinasfan]

What an insipid article.

Last week, Kerry brought fresh misery on himself when he fought back by citing a non-existent pope, "Pius XXIII" as a source of his mistaken belief that Vatican II essentially tells Catholics: Whatever.

How did I miss this? Is this true?

[Destro]

Catholics need to explain this to me. The official Catholic church position is to be against abortion and the death penalty. Why this furor over a "pro-choice" politician receiving communion and not the same furor over a "pro-death penalty" politician receiving communion? Kerry after all never committed an abortion and said he is personally against abortion. But being a man and not a doctor he will never commit an abortion personally. So what is his sin? Allowing others to be able to commit the sin of abortion? When did allowing someone the free will to commit a sin become a sin?

[man of Yosemite]

President Bush declared that he is pro-life, and he has been elected to our highest office. For Kerry to say that he separates his personal view from his political one is a cop-out. The man is voting with those who are pro-choice, shaking their hands much more firmly than he would shake yours. His vote is aligned with those who would oppose God, supporting those who have disdain for the Word of God. A person who follows the Faith does so all day long, not just when he appears at church.

[polemikos]

The official Catholic church position is to be against abortion and the death penalty.

Of the two, only abortion is an intrinsic evil.

The Church "does not exclude . . . recourse to the death penalty" (CCC 2267). The death penalty, in the prudential judgement of JPII, should be rarely applied, but it is morally permissible in some situations. So good Cathoics can disagree over what is prudent in a particular situation vis-a-vis the death penalty.

[polemikos]

When did allowing someone the free will to commit a sin become a sin?

"A well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law that contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals" (Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Doctrinal Notes on Some Questions Regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political Life, 4)."

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is "never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it" (John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), 73).

It's allowing someone to commit murder.

[Snuffington]

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. (1 Corinthians 11:27-29)

Thank you. It's a passage I often meditate upon for myself.

But considered from the perspective of a bishop or priest knowingly administering the sacrament to a pro-abort, it seems almost Pilate-like. Too politically dangerous to them personally to care about the soul of the person presenting themself for communion. Assist them in their path to damnation and save themselves alot of worldly grief.

For all the sins I risk being confronted with on judegement day, I feel almost relieved that this can't be among them. Yet can anyone seriously believe that the vast majority of American bishops and priests will not answer for their neglect of these members of their flock some day?

[Snuffington]

How did I miss this? Is this true?

Sort of. In context he was clearly referring to John XXIII. But he definitely said Pius, instead of John.

[Destro]

Then a good Catholic must resign his position if the secular institutions make abortion legal to be in good standing with the church then?

[TradicalRC]

When I asked about Kerry’s standing, he seemed pained by the idea of turning him, or anyone else, away. “I would find it hard to use the Eucharist as a sanction,” he said gently. “You don’t know what’s in anyone’s heart when they come before you. It’s important that everyone know what our principles are, but you’d have to be very sure someone had a malicious intent [before denying him communion.]”

Seeing as he has taken a public stand on the issue, the bishop knows full well what's in the senator's heart. His is a misguided sense of compassion that confuses non-judgmentalism with Christianity. Bishops seem to prefer worldly power and will show more "compassion" for a politico than they will for the slaughtered innocents.

[TradicalRC]

Welcome back, CG.

I wanted to know your thoughts on this regarding the washing of the feet. It seems that a bishop or two was stating that it should be men only getting their feet washed. Would it be improper to disobey the bishop or do away with the ritual entirely if the priest disagreed with him?

[polemikos]

Then a good Catholic must resign his position if the secular institutions make abortion legal to be in good standing with the church then?

Can you give me a fer instance?

[Barnacle]

Last week, Kerry brought fresh misery on himself when he fought back by citing a non-existent pope, "Pius XXIII" as a source of his mistaken belief that Vatican II essentially tells Catholics:

Unbelievable. Next he'll be citing quotes from that great American, President Jack Andrews.

[TOUGH STOUGH]

"Like her, McCarrick seems to feel that we only get better if we stick around and practice."

For Kerry the above has nothing to do with it. He is making his PUBLIC attendance in Catholic Church to garnish the Catholic vote. This sho0uld NOT be allowed.

[TOUGH STOUGH]

You are precisely right.

[narses]

"The official Catholic church position is to be against abortion and the death penalty. "

Not true. The Church has ALWAYS supported the death penalty and ALWAYS opposed abortion. The current Pope has argued that the Death Penalty today may not be necessary, but that isn't the same as never allowable. It is also not a formal teaching, or dogma, of the Universal Church, whereas the ban on abortion is.

[Jaded]

Cardinal McCarrick prefers Catholic-Sorta-Lite. The touchy-feely-kiss-and-hold-hands flavor. You can be anything you want and Jesus will follow you in your lifestyle and be your friend. Anything to reinforce your positive self-image. Blech.

Does no one take a stand?