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The Beginning of The End of The Bernardin Legacy
RCF ^ | Introduction by Stephen Brady

Posted on 05/15/2004 10:58:03 AM PDT by narses

Just what is the Bernardin Legacy? Ask that simple question to any Catholic and the answers you receive will vary from one extreme to the other. One either loved him or despised him. But regardless of your personal opinion of the man there is one point, I believe, we can all agree on: He was a powerful and influential individual, both politically and spiritually. James Hitchcock wrote in an article published shortly after the Cardinal’s death that: “He [Bernardin] consistently used his influence to promote liberal causes, even attacks on Church teachings and traditions.” Hitchcock went on to say: “...he consistently used his power to build a network of allies within both the hierarchy and the bureaucracy, a network which in effect has controlled the direction of the ‘American Church’.”

Bernardin received the Presidential award from President Clinton and was honored, posthumously, by the Masons. He was a friend of Call To Action (CTA) and allowed them to operate on Church property. He even went so far as to speak out against Bishop Bruskewitz for excommunicating CTA members in his own diocese. History has taught us that the Cardinal usually came down on the liberal side of every issue, but what is his legacy? What about his faith?

As Catholics we know that our purpose in life is to know, love, and serve God, and as Archbishop of Chicago Bernardin had an even greater responsibility. Defending the faith and safeguarding the souls of the faithful was his job. How did he do? What was the condition of the Church in Chicago at the time of his passing, after 15 years of his leadership? That is his legacy.

Who did he live with? Who were his friends? (According to the 11/97 Washington Blade, a homosexual newspaper, the Cardinal himself had arranged for the Windy City Gay Chorus to sing at his wake at Holy Name Cathedral. It did so behind a sign prominently displaying its name.) What kinds of men did he associate with and help elevate to bishop? Who praised him? Who followed him and what was the result? RCF has spent the last four years looking for those answers.

In 1996, RCF approached the Cardinal asking for his help in solving the problems faced by faithful Catholics in the Springfield diocese, the home of Bishop Ryan. His Eminence made it clear he would do nothing to help. But one could hardly blame him; back in Chicago dozens of schools and parishes were closing. Immoral sex education was common, and an alarming number of sex abuse cases were surfacing. Some of the Cardinal’s closest friends, Msgr. Hopwood (who pled guilty to sexual abuse charges in 1994) from Charleston and Fr. Harsham from Cincinnati were accused of sexual abuse. Even the Cardinal was accused of abuse by Steve Cook. Cook later dropped his suit and many claimed that was proof of the Cardinal’s innocence. But was it? According to a 6/18/98 Wanderer article by Paul Likoudis, Msgr. Hopwood was “not your ordinary pedophile. He did hundreds of boys, and I can’t imagine Bernardin not being aware of it, since they lived together for such a long time.” RCF recently contacted one of Hopwood’s victims and discovered that the law firm which represents the Chicago Archdiocese brokered the settlements with some of Msgr. Hopwood’s victims.

Many newspaper and magazine articles have been written regarding the Cardinal’s life. Some suggested he was an active homosexual and did indeed have a relationship with Cook. I had a conversation with a Vatican official as well as a Chicago priest who mentioned an alleged incident in California. But where is the proof?

Many individuals find it difficult to accept the fact that any bishop could ever deny the faith, let alone sexually abuse a child. But recent history proves otherwise. Bishop Symons of Palm Beach, Florida, resigned after admitting he sexually abused altar boys while a priest. The bishop claimed it happened 30 years ago. Why, then, did he resign 30 years after the fact? Public exposure—that’s why. Bishop Ziemann of Santa Rosa, California, also resigned after admitting a two year sexual affair with a priest he brought into the country from Costa Rica. He stepped down after the priest threatened a lawsuit.

While we realize that sexual perversion is a sure sign one has fallen from grace, what else does it tell us–especially when the pervert/predator is a Catholic priest or bishop? Experience has taught us that, more often than not, when we find a priest or bishop whose flock has been subjected to liturgical abuse or heresy you will find a priest or bishop with a sexual weakness or perversion (liturgical abuse and heresy along with case after case of the sexual abuse of children by clergy has long been part of the Chicago Church: The real Bernardin legacy, some might say). The question is: Which came first? This brings to mind the statement: “the first sign of a bankrupt spirituality is a disordered sexuality.”

The Bernardin legacy is the current condition of the Catholic Church in America. From his days as Chancellor in South Carolina to Chief of Staff and then President of the NCCB to the Cardinal of Chicago, Bernardin has been a force in the Church and is responsible, in part, for what we have today. Look around—what do you see? The evidence is there. One diocese after another is dying out with no sign of help coming from Rome. The Catholic faithful are on their own. But what about the charges of sexual abuse? RCF has been searching for those answers. Police officers, lawyers, private investigators, and clergy have provided RCF with details of alleged abuse by the Cardinal, but no one has been able (or in some cases, willing) to provide first-hand information—that is—until now.

If you are still with us—still reading—but are not ready to hear the truth: Please go no further. We are going to present you the story of “Agnes,” an 11-year-old child, along with information RCF received from a former seminarian who admitted to a 4 year sexual relationship with a Catholic bishop.

It was not quite 6:00 am on Thursday, April 6, 2000. I was on my way to the Amtrak station to catch the train to Chicago. I was looking forward to the ride to Chicago, the 4 hours it would take to reach my destination would give me plenty of time to reflect on the chain of events that had brought me to this place and time in history. A train ride to Chicago was nothing new for me but the purpose of the trip was somewhat unsettling to say the least.

I had been asked to travel to Chicago to provide federally funded investigators with information Roman Catholic Faithful (RCF) had obtained. A 1984 unsolved Chicago murder had been reopened. While RCF had no information about the murder, we did have information regarding an alleged clergy pedophile ring operating in Chicago that may have been connected to the murder. Now this story, and that of an 11 year-old child known as Agnes, along with the 1998 murder of Fr. Alfred Kunz, (a priest advisor to RCF) and many other Church-related events will be always present—buried within the pictures permanently implanted in my mind. The one common denominator in this sordid mess seemed to be Father/Bishop/Cardinal Bernardin and his machine.

If Andrew Greeley had only known the chain of events his new book was about to set in motion he may have never published it. Neither Greeley nor the Chicago church were new to scandal or controversy. Greely has made his living, it seems, playing one side against the other in Church politics.

Over the last 30 years, under the leadership of Cardinals Cody, Bernardin, and George, Chicago Catholics have been subjected to all sorts of scandal — the worst being the sexual abuse of children and the cover-up by the hierarchy. General absolution goes on, even today, at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago, and Communication Ministry, Inc. (CMI), a not-for-profit corporation whose members are homosexual clergy and religious, operates out of Chicago today, and its board of directors includes a Chicago priest and nun. (More on CMI, and its connection to the American hierarchy, in other reports contained in this newsletter).

Fr. Greeley's newly published book "Furthermore! Memories of a Parish Priest,” was released on December 1, 1999. The following quote from page 80 of Greeley’s book set in motion a chain of events that led to my trip to Chicago.

...But even in Chicago, the ring of predators about whom I wrote in the paperback edition of "Confessions" remains untouched. There is no evidence against them because no one has complained about them and none of their fellow Priests have denounced them. Those who have been removed are for the most part lone offenders who lacked the skill to cover their tracks. The ring is much more clever. Perhaps they always will be. But should they slip, should they get caught, the previous scandals will seem trivial...

A footnote states:

"They are a dangerous group. There is reason to believe that they are responsible for at least one murder, and may perhaps have been involved in the murder of the murderer. Am I afraid of them? Not particularly. They know that I have in safekeeping information which would implicate them. I am more of a threat to them dead than alive. (p. 80)

What is one to think of Greeley’s admission? If he indeed has evidence concerning an unsolved murder would he not be obliged to step forward and share this information with local authorities? One would think a Catholic priest would be the first to seek justice for the victim and thereby possibly prevent this “ring of predators” he speaks of from harming another child. What about Cardinal George’s responsibility in all this. Has Greeley, in his effort to sell his books, suggested a cover-up. If that is the case, by his own admission, he has been part of the cover-up and his silence may well have contributed to the sexual abuse of other children.

Page 80 of Greeley’s book deeply disturbed at least five businessmen in Chicago. While one wrote the Chicago Police, the other four wrote Cardinal George and all demanded an investigation and called on the Cardinal to make Greeley produce the information he had in “safekeeping.” It wasn’t long until a murder investigator, working for the local District Attorney’s office, showed up at the office of one of the Chicago businessmen who had demanded action from the Cardinal.

My train arrived in Chicago at 10:00 AM. From Union station I walked to an office building several blocks away where I met the five Chicago businessmen who had called Greeley to account. We had time for lunch prior to a 1:00 PM meeting with the, federally funded, murder investigator.

On May 30, 1984 Francis E. Pellegrini, 47, was found murdered in his apartment at 2953 S. Parnell Ave. in Chicago. He had been stabbed at least 20 times. His dog had also been stabbed. Pellegrini was the organist and choir director at All Saints – St. Anthony of Padua Catholic Church located at 518 W. 28th Place in Chicago. He was also assistant professor of Sociology and Social Science at City College. There are those who believe that Pellegrini was about to expose the “Boys Club,” an alleged group of pedophile clergy operating out of Chicago. RCF received information regarding the existence of the “Boy’s Club” while it was investigating Springfield’s homosexual bishop Daniel Ryan, who resigned from his see on Oct. 19, 1999. Ryan was an active homosexual who had sex with priests and male prostitutes as young as 15. Ryan was chancellor of the Joliet diocese and spent many years in and around the Chicago area. Bishop Imesch of Joliet is also no stranger to scandal and he, too, has spent many years in the Chicago area and was included in the Bernardin Circle of Friends. Imesch came from Detroit where he and bishop Gumbleton worked under Cardinal Deardon. Gumbleton is well known for his support of dissenting homosexual groups. Imesch, as bishop of Joliet, according to statements from two attorneys, has lied under oath in an apparent effort to protect pedophile priests (much more on Imesch will be covered in a future edition). The murder investigation is ongoing.

At this point in time RCF believes the Catholic population may be ready to hear Agnes' story. (Her name, of course, is not Agnes; that is the name given her by Malachi Martin in his fictionalized retelling of her story). She is a real person, and has gone on to live her life as a faithful Catholic.

Prior to exposing such serious and scandalous materials to the reader, we ought to remind ourselves that although the Catholic laity may never know the good vs. evil struggles that take place within the Church hierarchy, one thing we do know is that there is an element within the Church that is controlled by “The Father of Lies.” (This was alluded to by Pope Paul VI himself). We may never know the whole story, the whole truth until the day we stand in judgment. It is enough that we do all we can to protect the innocent by shining the light of truth on those who operate in the dark. And it is the least we can do: it is a bit of justice for the victims.

Several months ago I received a phone call, followed by a statement, from a young man in the Detroit area who was abused by a priest when he was only 14 years old. He was married now and had a family. He had never told anyone of the abuse but upon finding RCF’s web page, wanted to call and thank us for all that we are doing. RCF checked out his story and found that the priest who had abused him had been arrested for molesting other children and had moved to the Joliet diocese.

I have heard many similar horror stories in the last four years. Upon meeting and getting to know those who were the victims of childhood sexual abuse, I found they react in many different ways. It is heartbreaking to hear their stories and learn of their lost innocence. In each and every one of them I met, I saw the face of one of my children, and I wondered how on earth they managed to survive the ordeal. Often the only defense they had was the ability to block the memory from their minds. Some of the abused went on to abuse others or turned to drugs or alcohol to wipe away the memory and pain. There were those who, as teenagers, ended up selling their bodies to survive, living on the streets. As though they had not suffered enough, those few who did approach Church authorities were often treated as if they were the enemy. I have seen it happen.

The youngest victim of childhood sexual abuse I had ever known was only 7 when I met her. The state had placed her in our home for a short time because her parents were unable to care for her. No one knew at the time that she had been abused. Her psychological difficulties became evident to my wife and me when the child started to act out while in our home and around our younger children. I sat in the courtroom with the child when her parents had to appear before the judge to answer the charges against them. I received an education that day.

But allow me to get back to Agnes. Agnes has a family and grown children now. She and her husband live in a southern state. Her husband makes a living in law enforcement.

I first heard of Agnes’ story from a friend in 1996. This friend of mine had met Agnes a few years earlier when she came to him for advice. He never gave me her name or location but only made reference to her situation because it fit into a conversation we were having regarding the Archdiocese of Chicago. In 1998, when I first learned who Agnes was, I found that she had been on RCF’s mailing list for some time. I also learned that a private investigator, as well as a lawyer from Chicago who had provided RCF with information, had met with Agnes a few years earlier in an attempt to help her find a way to bear witness to what had happened to her. This same investigator and lawyer provided RCF with information they had obtained regarding the alleged sexual activity of the priest who had abused Agnes many years earlier. That priest was the young Joseph Bernardin.

Over the past 12 years, in sworn deposition, in accounts to investigators, in affidavits submitted in support of others' cases, in direct statements to Bernardin, in phone calls and letters to Church officials, and in correspondence with Vatican officials (all of which RCF has examined), Agnes has testified to the following story:

In the fall of 1957, in Greenville, S.C., Fr, Joseph Bernardin raped 11-year-old Agnes as part of a Satanic ritual that involved, among others, Bishop John Russell of Charleston. Brought to the event by an abusive father, Agnes “was able, at first, to resist Bishop Russell physically, out of the knowledge that God had made me good, not bad as I was being told I was” (her words). As a young child, she had been victimized by a “sadist” cousin, and her identity was based upon “resisting bad things”, which included Bernardin. Bernardin then showed kindness and approval of her resistance, in order to gain her trust and get her to relax, and then he raped her. He followed the rape with a perverted use of a host, in an attempt to make Agnes swallow the guilt of the event.

In the fall of 1992, Agnes passed a polygraph examination regarding these events. She also, in early 1990, told her story to Malachi Martin, who had been recommended to her as someone who could get her information to the Vatican, which Agnes knew had sole and immediate jurisdiction over such a case. Martin wrote a novel, Windswept House, with the premise that Agnes had given him: that the Catholic hierarchy's tolerance of heresy, liturgical abuse, clerical sexual misconduct, and clerical pedophilia had one overarching explanation at root, a network of Satanists whose smoke had ascended high in the Church. Her story is greatly theatricalized in the novel, but the essential fact of ritual rape is there, as is the spiritual reality of Christ's presence in the victimized child. Thirty-four years later, Agnes went to visit Bishop Russell in a nursing home. In and out of lucidity, he agreed to testify against Bernardin if asked. He died without the opportunity to do so.

Agnes later came to know Steve Cook, and submitted an affidavit in support of his suit. Before he died, Cook told Agnes he was writing a book to tell the truth about his abuse, and he gave a different account of his lawsuit retraction than the one publicly accepted.

Someone who knew Cook earlier than Agnes is a former seminarian RCF interviewed who admitted to a four-year sexual relationship with a Catholic bishop who now heads a western diocese. This man stated that he also had forced sexual contact with Cardinal Bernardin, and that, through Bernardin, he came to know Steven Cook. This individual, interviewed in November of 1998 by RCF, claims to have received a cash settlement. RCF confirmed, through an attorney, that this seminarian did indeed receive a cash settlement.

In June of 1998 RCF interviewed a Chicago businessman whose son was abused by a Chicago priest a few years earlier (1980's). In 1989 this Chicago businessman met with Cardinal Edouard Gagnon. He gave me the following account of his conversation with the Cardinal. (He also directed me to Jason Berry's book "LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION" for an account of his family's story). The Cardinal stated that the Holy See had received hundreds of letters regarding the pedophile problem in the U.S. and that it was beyond the control of the Holy See as the Church is in schism and the American bishops will not obey the Holy Father.

This article is excerpted from the Spring/Summer 2000 issue of RCF's periodic newsletter, A.M.D.G. (Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam). It is sent at no additional charge to donors contributing at least $25 annually.


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Worship
KEYWORDS: bernardin; calltoaction; cardinal; cardinalbernardin; catholiclist; chicago; clinton; cta; diocese; freemasonry; freemasons; gay; homosexual; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; josephbernardin; rcf
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1 posted on 05/15/2004 10:58:03 AM PDT by narses
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To: GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; livius; ...
Over the past 12 years, in sworn deposition, in accounts to investigators, in affidavits submitted in support of others' cases, in direct statements to Bernardin, in phone calls and letters to Church officials, and in correspondence with Vatican officials (all of which RCF has examined), Agnes has testified to the following story:

In the fall of 1957, in Greenville, S.C., Fr, Joseph Bernardin raped 11-year-old Agnes as part of a Satanic ritual that involved, among others, Bishop John Russell of Charleston. Brought to the event by an abusive father, Agnes “was able, at first, to resist Bishop Russell physically, out of the knowledge that God had made me good, not bad as I was being told I was” (her words). As a young child, she had been victimized by a “sadist” cousin, and her identity was based upon “resisting bad things”, which included Bernardin. Bernardin then showed kindness and approval of her resistance, in order to gain her trust and get her to relax, and then he raped her. He followed the rape with a perverted use of a host, in an attempt to make Agnes swallow the guilt of the event.


2 posted on 05/15/2004 10:58:42 AM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: narses

Even from the grave, Bernardin is powerful enough to ride out any scandal brought against him.

There is a case gong on now in western MI that is reminicent of all this. There is a Priest in custody that ivolves ritual murder of a Nun, and ritual sex with a child, that dates back in part to almost the same time frame as "Agnes"

Please pray for our Church and the protection of our Priests from the snares of the Devil. Offer every Mass you go to for this intention.

If the Church weren't so important to the devil, he wouldn't work so hard to bring it down.


3 posted on 05/15/2004 11:48:55 AM PDT by Arguss
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To: narses; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp IV; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ..
Thank you, narses, for posting this article and God bless Stephen Brady and RCF for their continued efforts to rout these despicable bishops from the American clergy.

This article is excerpted from the Spring/Summer 2000 issue of RCF's periodic newsletter, A.M.D.G. (Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam).

Stephen Brady continues his tireless work and depends on those pitiful donations to fund his travel from one city to another. Any contribution you make to RCF benefits ALL catholics in this country.

For those who may have missed it, this past February, Stephen Brady and Paul Likoudis were invited by the Coalition of Concerned Catholics to come to Albany NY. This was immediately following the untimely death of Fr. John Minkler, another 'informant' priest whose body was found face down on a blanket in his kitchen. Here is the report I filed that night, after attending the meeting.

REPORT FROM RCF MEETING - ALBANY NY - Feb. 22, 2004

4 posted on 05/15/2004 1:11:33 PM PDT by NYer (Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light!)
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To: Arguss

Exactly, so we must realize elevating cardinals and the like to some higher status is wrong. They are to be as the Apostles were to the Gentiles of the time, not socialites and operatives of causes like gay rights!

The cause is to spread the word of Jesus Christ as God and Savior.

OPs4 God BLess America!


5 posted on 05/15/2004 1:18:24 PM PDT by OPS4
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To: narses

FROM RCF ARTICLE: The Cardinal stated that the Holy See had received hundreds of letters regarding the pedophile problem in the U.S. and that it was beyond the control of the Holy See as the Church is in schism and the American bishops will not obey the Holy Father.

"in schism" also in heresy I might add

How true that's why it can easily be justified to attend irregular valid traditional masses not visibly in union with the local ordinary; the local ordinary himself is in schism, so how can he be in union with Holy father?


6 posted on 05/15/2004 1:29:59 PM PDT by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: NYer

Thanks for the ping. I remember hearing about Bernardin from my mom, but I didn't know about the sexual molestation at the time. It was mostly about liturgical abuses and false teaching.


7 posted on 05/15/2004 1:33:50 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Torrance Ca....land of the flying monkeys)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

ping


8 posted on 05/15/2004 1:52:49 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Arguss
Even from the grave, Bernardin is powerful enough to ride out any scandal brought against him.

He has already faced a much more powerful Judge. He will not ride out any scandal. Hopefully, he is now in purgatory, dealing with the sin.
9 posted on 05/15/2004 2:28:03 PM PDT by Talking_Mouse (Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just... Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Arguss; sandyeggo; narses; Pyro7480
If the Church weren't so important to the devil, he wouldn't work so hard to bring it down.

While the Roman Rite may have dropped the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, the Maronite Rite views purification as part of the journey to the Kingdom. The prayer from the Sunday of the Deceased Priests, implies that the journey is difficult and never free of danger until the end.

...Grant peace and serenity to the priests
who have gone before us to your holy dwellings.
May their works precede them as a record of their faith
and a memorial of their lives.
May the Evil One flee at the sight of their coming
from the path that leads to you.
Let none of your deceased ministers be tempted
by the devil and his legions.
May the marks of your holy Mysteries
shelter and protect them on their journey to you ...

10 posted on 05/15/2004 2:38:33 PM PDT by NYer (Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light!)
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To: NYer

In the Roman rite, the prayer to St Michael is still said (as part of the Leonine prayers) after Low Mass:
"Saint Michael, the archangel defend us in battle; be thou our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray and do thou, O prince of the heavenly host by the power of God, thrust down into hell, satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world for the ruin of souls."
Pope Leo XIII mandated this (adapted short exorcism) prayer after a vision of the devil attempting to take control of the Church.
Pope Leo XIII also wrote several encyclicals on the importance of the rosary which is another powerful weapon against the evil empire.
As part of his devotion to the holy rosary, Pope Leo XIII established the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary.
For more on the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary, please see:
http://www.memorare.com/mary/conf.html
Of course, I would be remiss if I didn't at the same time once again mention the Universal Living Rosary (under the patronage of dearly beloved St Philomena):
http://www.philomena.org/


11 posted on 05/15/2004 3:06:58 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: AskStPhilomena

"In the Roman rite, the prayer to St Michael is still said (as part of the Leonine prayers) after Low Mass:"

In the Tridentine Rite, yes. In the NO Mass, not that I've ever heard or seen.


12 posted on 05/15/2004 3:13:18 PM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: Arguss

Since Bernardin died, notice how much more strong the words from Rome are. Also notice how much more conservative the bishops are getting.


13 posted on 05/15/2004 5:06:24 PM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: AskStPhilomena
In the Roman rite, the prayer to St Michael is still said

Correction --- It is still said in the Indult Tridentine Rite (b/k/a the Mass of the 1962 Missal), but not in the Latin Riite (b/k/a the Novus Ordo Rite). Trust me on this one! I grew up as a child in the Latin Rite (now known as the Mass of the 1962 Missal) and for the past 40 years have 'adjusted' to the changes made. In the current Latin Rite, the prayer to St. Michael is no longer used.

Here is the present 'definition' of the Roman Rite liturgies, compliments of EWTN. As a point of information, EWTN's Sunday liturgy is now a high mass, following the Novus Ordo Rite, but totally in Latin. The priests vest in brocade, there are 6 candles on the altar, incense is used in the liturgy. It is extremely dignified and quite beautiful.

• Roman - The overwhelming majority of Latin Catholics and of Catholics in general. Patriarch of this and the other Roman Rites is the Bishop of Rome. The current Roman Rite is that of the 1969 Missale Romanum, to be published in a third edition in 2001.
- Missal of 1962 (Tridentine Mass) - Some institutes within the Roman Rite, such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, have the faculty to celebrate the sacramental rites according to the forms in use prior to the Second Vatican Council. This faculty can also be obtained by individual priests from their bishop or from the Pontifical Council Ecclesia Dei
- Anglican Use - Since the 1980s the Holy See has granted some former Anglican and Episcopal clergy converting with their parishes the faculty of celebrating the sacramental rites according to Anglican forms, doctrinally corrected.
• Mozarabic - The Rite of the Iberian peninsula (Spain and Portugal) known from at least the 6th century, but probably with roots to the original evangelization. Beginning in the 11th century it was generally replaced by the Roman Rite, although it has remained the Rite of the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Toledo, Spain, and six parishes which sought permission to adhere to it. Its celebration today is generally semi-private.
• Ambrosian - The Rite of the Archdiocese of Milan, Italy, thought to be of early origin and probably consolidated, but not originated, by St. Ambrose. Pope Paul VI was from this Roman Rite. It continues to be celebrated in Milan, though not by all parishes.
• Bragan - Rite of the Archdiocese of Braga, the Primatial See of Portugal, it derives from the 12th century or earlier. It continues to be of occasional use.
• Dominican - Rite of the Order of Friars Preacher (OP), founded by St. Dominic in 1215.
• Carmelite - Rite of the Order of Carmel, whose modern foundation was by St. Berthold c.1154.
• Carthusian - Rite of the Carthusian Order founded by St. Bruno in 1084. 

14 posted on 05/15/2004 5:34:10 PM PDT by NYer (Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light!)
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To: Desdemona

It's been about ten years, hasn't it.

I haven't noticed many changes for the better.

Although the Bishop of Colorado Springs has just made a statement that Catholics who VOTE FOR politicians that support abortion may not receive Communion.


15 posted on 05/15/2004 8:25:54 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Talking_Mouse

"He has already faced a much more powerful Judge. He will not ride out any scandal. Hopefully, he is now in purgatory, dealing with the sin."

Do you really think a liberal can escape Hell?


16 posted on 05/15/2004 10:54:29 PM PDT by dsc (The Crusades were the first wars on terrorism.)
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To: narses

"In the NO Mass, not that I've ever heard or seen."

I guess the people who wrote the NO didn't want to do anything that would keep Satan away.


17 posted on 05/15/2004 10:55:36 PM PDT by dsc (The Crusades were the first wars on terrorism.)
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To: Palladin

There are changes for the better. They don't always make headlines. When Rigali was here, all Tabernacles were moved to plain sight in the church. Specifically, to the foot of the Crucifix, and yes every church had to have one. It was a start.

And yes, Mike Sheridan made waves with that letter. He always was a stickler for the rules. The first Easter he was pastor at my parish he told the choir director we MUST sing "Ye Sons and Daughters." We never had a pastor demand specific music before, but he was paying the bills, so, we did it. Sheridan is very specific and demanding, but very much a man of God. And in his letter, he is absolutely correct.


18 posted on 05/16/2004 4:14:34 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: dsc
I guess the people who wrote the NO didn't want to do anything that would keep Satan away.

That's actually more or less the case. There isn't much mention of Satan at all. It's like someone took an exacto knife and just carved Satan out of everything, the prayers, the readings, the homilies.
19 posted on 05/16/2004 4:17:49 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: Desdemona
There isn't much mention of Satan at all. It's like someone took an exacto knife and just carved Satan out of everything, the prayers, the readings, the homilies.

Well,they had to take something out to make room for all the self-congratulatory stuff. My parish, which is fairly conservative, is bad enough; hard to imagine how bad Kerry's Paulist Center is!

20 posted on 05/16/2004 4:29:06 AM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz

One of Satan's favorite tricks is convincing people he doesn't exist. In this case, just disappearing. It seems he has friends in the Vatican.


21 posted on 05/16/2004 4:54:58 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: Desdemona
One of Satan's favorite tricks is convincing people he doesn't exist.

Hail to another C.S. Lewis fan!

22 posted on 05/16/2004 5:03:42 AM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz
Hail to another C.S. Lewis fan!

Actually, I've been reading up on exorcism. Terrifying stuff. I don't know much about C.S. Lewis to be honest, although I've heard many good things.
23 posted on 05/16/2004 5:07:50 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: Desdemona
You really have to read C.S. Lewis! From posts of yours I've read, I think you really would love The Chronicles of Narnia; look for them in the children's section. The adult trilogy is also excellent (Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength, my own favorite; I think I've read it about 20 times at least). Perhaps the best of the essays to start with is God in the Dock; most of the essays in it were written in the 40s, and it's amazing how he spotted the trends that have just gotten worse.

Even then, he was saying the choice is becoming more clear and inevitable, the choice "between Mordred and Arthur."

24 posted on 05/16/2004 5:23:24 AM PDT by maryz
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To: NYer

Now that it's been some years since I attended the novus ordo, I trust your judgement on this one.
From what I recall though the novus ordo differed markedly depending on whether the priest was tradition-minded or just another raving liberal.
As far as I'm aware omission of the Leonine prayers from the novus ordo was never mandated by the Vatican.
If they are omitted, it's a shame.


25 posted on 05/16/2004 6:53:22 AM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: narses
This stuff goes on and on and on, doesn't it? And to think, I left a perfectly good little Pentecostal church to come home to Rome. :)

Was honestly never much of a Malachi Martin fan, but might pick up Windswept House at the library and give it a go. I think his appearances on Art Bell put me off. In any event - hard to not be bothered by all of the latest and ongoing abuse allegations.

In our diocese we have had a priest arrested and convicted for making and selling the date rape drug. A Monsignor was recently removed for allegations of abuse years ago. Dozens of priests have been removed from ministry because of abuse allegations. One particular gay priest I personally knew was kept in 'service' because of the priest shortage. Even though this particular priest took some time off to tend bar at a gay strip club in Florida that his 'lover' worked at, he was urged by the bishop to return to ministry, twice. I know because he told me this right before he tried to get me into his bed. (I not-so-respectfully declined.) His partner is now now dead from AIDS and I believe he is as well.

And ours is supposed to be a solid diocese. Hate to see a liberal one...

We will ordain a single, solitary priest this year and it is becoming clear that many men who might hear the call are unwilling to be lumped in with some of the dross produced during the 60's.

Yet the Church is one, holy, catholic and Apostolic. There is nowhere else I can or would rather be, this side of Heaven.

A_R

26 posted on 05/16/2004 9:05:13 AM PDT by arkady_renko
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To: NYer
Correction --- It is still said in the Indult Tridentine Rite (b/k/a the Mass of the 1962 Missal), but not in the Latin Riite (b/k/a the Novus Ordo Rite).

The Tridentine Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass are both forms of the Roman/Latin Rite. They are not separate Rites.

27 posted on 05/16/2004 11:21:54 AM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The day the Church abandons her universal tongue is the day before she returns to the catacombs-PXII)
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To: Piers-the-Ploughman
FROM RCF ARTICLE: The Cardinal stated that the Holy See had received hundreds of letters regarding the pedophile problem in the U.S. and that it was beyond the control of the Holy See as the Church is in schism and the American bishops will not obey the Holy Father.

Where did you find this quote? In this article or another?

28 posted on 05/16/2004 11:44:37 AM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The day the Church abandons her universal tongue is the day before she returns to the catacombs-PXII)
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To: AskStPhilomena
"As far as I'm aware omission of the Leonine prayers from the novus ordo was never mandated by the Vatican. If they are omitted, it's a shame."

The St. Michael prayer and the three Hail Mary's are just plain not included in the Order of the Mass.

It's not a question of being mandated. Pope Paul VI just never included them in the Novus Ordo.

One of the "rules" is - if there is no rule, it doesn't exist.

Unfortunately, that is only followed in cases of Orthodoxy, not inventions.

29 posted on 05/16/2004 11:46:26 AM PDT by Arguss
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To: Arguss

I get your point - the Leonine prayers have been quietly forgotten by the liberals - as if Pope Leo XIII's mandate never existed; similar to how the modernists who've taken over our chanceries quietly forget about Pope St Pius V's "Quo Primum" as if it never existed.
As you probably know, abrogation of the traditional Latin Mass was never mandated either.
In other words, priests of the Roman rite should still be allowed to use the Leonine prayers and traditional Latin Mass without restriction.
Isn't it strange that such open-minded "laissez-faire" liberals, who permit practically everything else, can't tolerate the traditional Latin Mass - or even just the Leonine prayers?
Such otherwise "tolerant", mild-mannered (even limp-wristed) individuals seem to a fly into a rage at the mere mention of anything "traditional".
I wonder if satan has anything to do with the status quo?


30 posted on 05/16/2004 12:10:55 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

It is in the posted article, end of next to last paragraph.

it's also on RCF website somewhere.

Just common sense, really, but glad that the cardinal said it.


31 posted on 05/16/2004 12:22:42 PM PDT by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: Desdemona

you wrote:
One of Satan's favorite tricks is convincing people he doesn't exist. In this case, just disappearing. It seems he has friends in the Vatican.


I believe the Pope years ago was quoted as saying that "Jesus said "I am Who AM"."

'Devil says "I am who am not."'


32 posted on 05/16/2004 12:26:18 PM PDT by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: dsc
Do you really think a liberal can escape Hell?

God is merciful. So, yes, I think a liberal can escape Hell. What is important in this case is was he in friendship with God at the moment of death.

"All the graces necessary for salvation" promise to the three children regarding devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary "...grace of final repentance" promise to St. Margret Mary regarding devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. It is my fervent prayer that at the hour of death many people who seem to have left the faith truly repent.

33 posted on 05/16/2004 4:03:40 PM PDT by Talking_Mouse (Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just... Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
The Tridentine Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass are both forms of the Roman/Latin Rite. They are not separate Rites.

Yes, you are right! For purposes of clarification, however, the better word would be 'liturgy'. In the 'liturgy' of the Mass of the 1962 Missal, the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel is still said. In the 'liturgy of the Mass of the 1969 Missal, the prayer is no longer included.

34 posted on 05/16/2004 5:13:43 PM PDT by NYer (Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light!)
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To: arkady_renko
I left a perfectly good little Pentecostal church to come home to Rome. :)

Don't let these threads bother you - it's not worth it! The Catholic Church is wide and diverse, encompasing 22 different liturgies As a cradle catholic, I have only just discovered the Maronite Catholic liturgy. It is one of the oldest, dating back to when St. Peter brought the 'good news' to Antioch. It is the ONLY liturgy within the Catholic Church, that retains the language and words of our Lord at the Last Supper for the Consecration. It is in Aramaic! Communion is by intinction, on the tongue. The priest - ONLY the priest - dips the consecrated host into the Precious Blood, places the host on the communicant's tongue and says: "Receive the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins and eternal salvation".

You can learn more about the Catholic Rites at this link:

Catholic Churches and Rites

35 posted on 05/16/2004 5:24:39 PM PDT by NYer (Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light!)
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To: Desdemona

"Actually, I've been reading up on exorcism. Terrifying stuff."

Can you recommend anything that would be educational, as opposed to "just scary?"


36 posted on 05/16/2004 5:42:38 PM PDT by dsc (The Crusades were the first wars on terrorism.)
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To: Talking_Mouse

"What is important in this case is was he in friendship with God at the moment of death."

That presumes that the liberal had a deathbed epiphany, rejected liberalism, and achieved perfect repentance for a lifetime of sin and leading others astray.

(And yes, I believe that knowingly voting for a politician who supports affirmative action or intends to use taxation to redistribute wealth is a sin.)

With God, all things are possible, but from my finite human perspective, I don't see that happening all too often.

And to be perhaps overly picky, a person who had such a deathbed epiphany wouldn't die a liberal.


37 posted on 05/16/2004 5:47:27 PM PDT by dsc (The Crusades were the first wars on terrorism.)
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To: dsc

Father Gabriele Amorth's first book, 'An Exorcist Tells His Story' is good. He gives definitions and recommendations for treatment in addition to anecdotes from his experiences. I don't agree with everything in the book (he's fond of the renewal movement), but there is some good information in it.


38 posted on 05/16/2004 6:00:47 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The day the Church abandons her universal tongue is the day before she returns to the catacombs-PXII)
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To: NYer
Don't let these threads bother you - it's not worth it!

Thanks, they don't bother me too much. I went through a lot when I came back to the Church and my Faith is pretty unshakable. I used to do battle with charismatic/pentecostal Catholics who were following Protestant Pentecostal 'apostlic' leaders. I appreciate the concern though.

My old website. I used to work on it in my spare time - no more spare time so it is a little out of date.

A_R

39 posted on 05/16/2004 6:59:19 PM PDT by arkady_renko
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To: Desdemona

Wherever a bureaucracy can silence holy men we see the mark of evil.
The Holy See is not much different from the chanceries, is it?


40 posted on 05/16/2004 7:41:58 PM PDT by steve8714
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To: steve8714
The Holy See is not much different from the chanceries, is it?

Hmmm, not having such a Chancery, I wouldn't know. Our Chancery has been run on a short leash by a couple of orthodox bishops.

From what I can gather, the Curia has a few highly placed people who are the big problems. They must have some sort of strong influence on everything. I'm not sure just yet who they are, but a number of knowledgable priests and bishops have complained about them without naming names. I just keep reading and someday I might figure it out.
41 posted on 05/16/2004 7:50:31 PM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: dsc

You'd need to define "educational". There's no handbook on demonology, if that's wht you mean. Every book I read, I get more details and information. I'd trust Fr. Amorth above all others currently living. He has two books out and both are largely stories with all sorts of interesting details tucked in the middle. Fr. Amorth recommends Fr. Candido's books (I have to find them).

If I find something really good, I'll let you know.


42 posted on 05/16/2004 7:54:30 PM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

Thanks.


43 posted on 05/16/2004 10:13:16 PM PDT by dsc (The Crusades were the first wars on terrorism.)
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To: Desdemona

"You'd need to define "educational".

Because of my education in head-shrinking, I can spot various mental problems quite readily, but I'd like to know how to tell when Satanm aliosque spiritus malignos are present.


44 posted on 05/16/2004 10:15:14 PM PDT by dsc (The Crusades were the first wars on terrorism.)
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To: dsc
Because of my education in head-shrinking, I can spot various mental problems quite readily, but I'd like to know how to tell when Satanm aliosque spiritus malignos are present.

Funny you should say that. A lot of exorcists are psychiatrists, actually. All other explainations have to be ruled out before exorcism begins. Every account I've read, though, says that the possessed recoil at the sacred. They spit at a Crucifix or Holy Water, won't go near a church and utterly hate them. No two cases are the same, but that is the one thing they all have in common - hatred for the blessed. Beyond that, you can't make up some of this stuff.
45 posted on 05/17/2004 4:44:02 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: arkady_renko
but might pick up Windswept House at the library and give it a go.

I'd also recommend "Hostage to the Devil." I can't imagine a better written book about demonic possession and spiritual warfare.

The book is frightening, but should benefit all of us engaged in spiritual warfare. I would only recommend it to formed Catholics however, and those who are reasonably sure that they are in a state of grace.

I only read the book during the daytime and after saying the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, sometimes more than once ;-)

46 posted on 05/17/2004 5:33:33 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: dsc
Can you recommend anything that would be educational, as opposed to "just scary?"

See the previous post. I'd be interested in your take on the book considering your background in psychiatry.

Martin recounts five cases of demonic possession and "familiarity," but devotes most of the pages to the psychological build-up to the full-blown manifestation.

Martin is of the opinion that possession is under-diagnosed, and that those suffering from demonic possession or oppression are often shuffled off to psychiatric institutions. On the other hand, he claims that only 1 of 100 cases of purported possession are actual.

47 posted on 05/17/2004 5:40:05 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan; Desdemona

Thanks for the recommendations.

By the way, "psychiatry" pertains to people who have MDs, which I don't.

If you do the same thing without an MD it's "psychology."


48 posted on 05/17/2004 5:50:12 AM PDT by dsc (The Crusades were the first wars on terrorism.)
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To: dsc
If you do the same thing without an MD it's "psychology."

I was too lazy to flip back and check to see which one you were. I figured I had a 50% chance of being right 8-)

49 posted on 05/17/2004 6:28:57 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Desdemona; dsc; Aquinasfan
A lot of exorcists are psychiatrists, actually.

Wait! Most psychiatrists are atheist or agnostic. Most do not believe in the devil and see religious ideology as weakness or disorder. At least in California, most mental health people with any sort of preternatural belief system are into New Age, shamanism, etc. There are very few Christians. Even the Bishops themselves no longer believe and will refer to psychiatrists.

Malachy Martin and Fr. Amorth are right. People who have harassments or possessions are often misdiagnosed and mistreated for years.

I read a story once of an Episcopal priest who was also a psychiatrist. He had some institutionalized patients that no matter what he did, they did not improve. Out of desperation one day he tried exorcism. More than one walked out of the hospital completely cured.

The only Catholic psychiatrist I know of who was involved in exorcisms is Rama Coomaraswamy M.D. He is brilliant but a bit 'offbeat' as of late in his thinking. But, his articles on psychiatry and exorcism are quite good. One thing I read which has stuck with me, he stated (paraphrasing) "The mistake psychiatry makes is that the spirit is not located in the psyche. The psyche is within the spirit."

50 posted on 05/17/2004 10:14:20 AM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The day the Church abandons her universal tongue is the day before she returns to the catacombs-PXII)
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