POPE’S APPROVAL FOR THE FATIMA INTERFAITH SHRINE

Tradition in Action ^ | May 18, 2004 | Atila Sinke Guimarães

[Unam Sanctam]

There are no traditional bishops in AmChurch--or anywhere else outside of Campos and the SSPX.

On the contrary, all Catholic bishops are duty bound to uphold Sacred Tradition, and many of them actually do.

[Land of the Irish]

what is being constructed is a Catholic church = what is being constructed is not a Catholic church

You were right the first time.

[ultima ratio]

The SSPX doesn't lie--and neither do I. This Pope has on his record Assisi I and II--which are more than enough material heresies (at the least) in a single lifetime to condemn any pontificate. Nor do I spew forth venom--since I have made it a habit to be civil to those with whom I disagree--unlike you who get emotionally unhinged at the drop of a hat.

You say, "Ultima Ratio once again deliberately ignores what the Pope actually teaches and claims that the Pope is teaching exactly what he specifically teaches against." But this is a misrepresentation of my position. Does this mean you are spreading lies and vicious rumors about me? I hope not.

What I have actually said--consistently, by the way--is that this Pope says one thing and does another. For example, he writes long encyclicals warning against liturgical abuses--then celebrates scandalous public Masses which are noteworthy for their abuses. He warns the American Church that prohibiting kneeling for Communion is an offense against the dogma of the Real Presence--but permits it anyway.

You further state, "UR does this all on the basis of a vile and malicious rumor spread by schismatics who have a vested interest in justifying their completely unjustifiable disobedience against a perfectly orthodox pope." But if you check most of my posts, I normally would not say these things without backing my arguments up with irrefutable facts. In this instance, your claim this pope is orthodox is ludicrous.

Tell me, would a perfectly orthodox pope elevate a man who is known to have publicly denied the Resurrection in a published work and who has publicly denied the reality of the Gospel miracles? Was this the act of an orthodox Pontiff? Would an orthodox pontiff have given the Archbishop of Canterbury a pectoral cross as a gift--the very sign of legitimacy previous popes had denied? Would a perfectly orthodox pope have bragged in his diary that he prayed with animists? Are these "vile rumors" maliciously spread by "schismatics" or real facts about a disturbing pattern of papal heterodoxy?

[ultima ratio]

"On the contrary, all Catholic bishops are duty bound to uphold Sacred Tradition, and many of them actually do."

Am I the only one who finds this statement funny?

[ultima ratio]

"The Pope has consistently criticized Syncretism and Indifferentism." Oh, really? Is this why he partook of a faux ceremony at Assisi, lining up with Buddhists and voodoo priests and witchdoctors--holding his plant-for-peace in a pseudo-liturgy, placing himself on a par with them? As I say, he says one thing, does another.

As for hating the Pontiff--I don't. I simply refuse to worship him--which gets people like you all worked up. I sincerely believe he is a very bad pope. It will take centuries to undo the harm he has done.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Nope. I'm waiting for names.

[Dajjal]

The Pope has consistently criticized syncretism and indifferentism.

[Dajjal]

Sanctuary of Fatima
Church of The Most Holy Trinity
Designed by A. N. Tombazis and Associates, Architects
Polydroso - Athens, Greece





Model plans for the interfaith shrine to be
constructed in the Fatima Square, the site
where Our Lady appeared in 1917.

[gbcdoj]

Tell me, would a perfectly orthodox pope elevate a man who is known to have publicly denied the Resurrection in a published work and who has publicly denied the reality of the Gospel miracles?

Are you talking about Kasper? Can you provide a source for this?

[megatherium]

Portugal does indeed have earthquakes. Lisbon was destroyed in 1755 (if memory serves) by a big quake.

I thought the third secret had something to do with the Pope getting shot.

[TheCrusader]

With this symbolic gesture, John Paul II publicly takes a side in the controversy and in unspoken words gives his order: “Go ahead with the pan-religious shrine! It is what I want.”

Oh well, the pope's ecumania was made emminently clear at Assissi, when the Holy Father invited schizmatics, heretics, pagans and Indian cheifs to stand on sacred ground and pray to the "one God" with him. They prayed to their false gods and idols, while, (hopefully anyway), the Holy Father prayed to Christ. We can all see the results of these false ecumenical gatherings. The Church is being assaulted from all of the "good folk" the pope has been dealing with. Christians are being slaughtered all over the world by Muslims, anti-Catholics in the U.S. have decimated the Church with law suits as we sell off our buildings, close our Church doors and watch helplessly as local governments establish the rules by which our Bishops and priests must deal with priestly sexual abuse charges. Protestant clergy still rail against the Catholic Church from their pulpits, as always; and Catholics continue to lose their faith due to complete lack of true spiritual leadership from top to bottom.

[TheCrusader]

I've been away for a time and I see the old trolls are still at it. Archbishop Curtiss is a traditionalist? Thanks for putting a smile on my face this fine Thursday morning. Here is a quote from your "traditionalist" bishop Eldon Curtiss, after viewing a new-age renovation of an old Church, (St. Patricks), in Des Moines. (Note: The revamped Church now looks like a barn with pews. It has a semi-amphitheatre design, pitched wooden roof, wooden beams everywhere, a "risen" Christ on the plain cross inside a figure 8 design, a barren sanctuary that is barely elevated from the floor, and a WOODEN altar table... I'm sure you've all seen these new-age barns).

"At the May 27, 2001 dedication, Archbishop Eldon Francis Curtiss said in his homily "it's a marvelous blending of the old and the new - traditional catholic symbols and art with new forms and materials".

[TheCrusader]

"On the contrary, all Catholic bishops are duty bound to uphold Sacred Tradition, and many of them actually do"

You're being facetious, right?

[Revelation 911]

and a WOODEN altar table

Gads !....like a Carpenter would have built ?

Oh the humanity

[AskStPhilomena]

I don't know why Catholics are having such a hard time believing the plans for an interfaith shrine at Fatima when churches in every diocese throughout the world have become place of interfaith worship today.
Our holy father has consistently promoted interfaith activities (not just at Assisi) - and for once all the bishops have followed his lead wholeheartedly.
Of course many of these same "obedient" bishops have totally ignored our holy father's directive for a "wide and generous" application of the Roman Missal of 1962.
Others have permitted the occasional celebration of the traditional Latin Mass - usually in some beaten-down rubbish dump - as long as during all the other Sacraments are received according to the new rite - in a nearby novus ordo parish.
Under the leadership of Pope John Paul 2, it's interfaith activities that have taken on a truly "wide and generous" application - not the traditional Latin Mass.
In some dioceses, these interfaith exercises are taken to the extreme. Here are a few examples:
A bishop (still in good standing) holding his his inauguration party in a masonic temple:
http://www.rcf.org/docs/bishop_lucas01.htm
A diocese where the archbishop provided a church dedicated to the Sacred Heart for a gay-pride interfaith service (as part of gay-pride week):
http://www.rcf.org/friends/CALL.htm
The story of a Catholic order which felt honored to pay an official visit to a masonic temple is found in this editorial:
http://www.christianorder.com/editorials.html
The same Archbishop Fitzgerald mentioned in the Fatima reports seems to pay more attention to pagan festivals than even the pagans do. Here's just another (recent) example:
http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=52887
Even the Vatican's directory on ecumenism (which is far more "rigid" than many of the bishops' conferences) contains the following:
"if priests, ministers or communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church do not have a place or the liturgical objects necessary for celebrating worthily their religious ceremonies, the diocesan Bishop may allow them the use of a church or a Catholic building and also lend them what may be necessary for their services."
If only the Vatican would apply these norms to the SSPX.
Of course, they'd probably have to renounce their noted opposition to interfaith activities to be admitted to the party:
http://www.sspx.org/Superior%20Generals%20Ltrs/jan_6_04_letter_to_cardinals/ecumenism_to_apostasy.pdf
http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/04Feb/feb11hot.htm
The Pontifical Council for Christian Unity even approved of a "Mass" without a consecration - in their rush to promote the one-world religion: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20011025_chiesa-caldea-assira_en.html
Compare all of this with the wisdom of Pope Pius XI:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html

[Maximilian]

Looks like Mr. Guimares is just making stuff up.

I suppose he also "made up" this newspaper from Fatima:

Hmm, Fatima is to become a "sanctuary for various creeds." Perhaps he means both the Nicene and the Apostles' creeds. But the article begins:

"The future of Fatima will pass through the construction of a sanctuary where the different religions will co-mingle..."

So perhaps it is not Guimares who is "making stuff up," but you who are ignoring the clear and indisputable evidence right in front of your nose.

[Maximilian]

Guimaes is a liar and making things up. Absolutely zero official or unbiased evidence has been presented that what is being constructed is a Catholic church. SSPXers it would appear seem to live by outright lies and distortions.

Please see the photo in post #36. The director of the Fatima shrine is more than happy to proclaim his intention to have various religions intermingling in the new sanctuary to be built.

The Pope has consistently criticized syncretism and indifferentism. Those are not true ecumenism.

The photo is not that easy to read and I'm no expert in Portuguese, but it certainly looks like JPII was the inspiration for their "Sanctuary of Various Creeds." The second sentence quotes his statement that "inter-religious dialogue" has attained the status of a "universal vocation." According to the shrine itself, "the mixing of different religions" is the purpose of the new construction. And having been inspired by JPII, he has now given this project his approval. Sounds an awful lot like "syncretism and indiffertism" to me.

[Revenge of Sith]

Orthodox bishops did join the pope and Catholic bishops in consecrating Russia.

[Revenge of Sith]

Orthodox bishops did join the pope and Catholic bishops in consecrating Russia.

[Revenge of Sith]

Orthodox bishops did join the pope and Catholic bishops in consecrating Russia.