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A New Breed of Priest
Los Angeles Times ^ | July 31, 2004 | Teresa Watanabe

Posted on 08/02/2004 8:21:41 AM PDT by CatherineSiena

Edited on 08/02/2004 12:08:38 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

It's hard to miss Father Marcos Gonzalez, who wears an ankle-length black cassock every day, a garment most priests tossed out decades ago. But it's not just his clothes that bespeak an older, more traditional era of his Roman Catholic Church.

When some priests spoke in favor of optional celibacy at a Los Angeles priest assembly last year — a position supported by most American Catholics today — Gonzalez booed in dissent. In premarital counseling, he tells couples to remain chaste until marriage, plunging into delicate territory some priests prefer to avoid. Gonzalez also believes artificial birth control and gay sex are always a sin and opposes women's ordination.

Such stances conform with Vatican teachings, he says, but are at odds with many American priests and lay people.

Yet Gonzalez, an associate pastor at St. Andrew Church in Pasadena, is hardly a relic from a fading past. At 41, he offers one glimpse of the future as a member of a new breed of younger priests ordained during the 25-year papacy of Pope John Paul II and passionately committed to the pope's orthodox teachings.

As the health of John Paul — now 84 and the third-longest serving pontiff in history — continues to falter, men like Gonzalez stand ready to guard and propagate his legacy. They represent a global trend toward Christian orthodoxy, in contrast to a generation of more liberal priests ordained during the 1960s reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

"We are very, very faithful to the Holy Father and not in any way dissenting from the teachings of the church," Gonzalez says of like-minded colleagues.

The emergence of these young conservatives has set off a flurry of studies, books and debate about what effect they will have on the nation's 62 million Roman Catholics, its largest religious denomination.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholiclist
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1 posted on 08/02/2004 8:21:45 AM PDT by CatherineSiena
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To: CatherineSiena

"They aim for nothing less than to reshape the face of the American Catholic priesthood."

The same could be said about the SSPX - except they're less liberal than Pope John Paul 2 - and are reshaping not only the American priesthood, but every other continent as well.


2 posted on 08/02/2004 9:24:14 AM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: CatherineSiena
Linda Pieczynski, national spokeswoman for the liberal ####"Catholic reform group Call to Action, said that in parishes across the country, young conservatives have reportedly adopted an old-style "father knows best" attitude and made abrupt changes without adequate consultation with lay members. Women lay ministers in particular say many newly ordained priests have difficulty accepting them as colleagues, showing a lack of respect and excessive concern for power and authority, according to a 2001 study by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops."#####

Since when does the priest need to consult with lay members?

I never knew a priest who considered women lay ministers as colleagues?

This lady has illusions of grandeur forced upon herself by her egoism.
3 posted on 08/02/2004 11:37:05 AM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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To: AskStPhilomena
The SSPX is reshaping nothing, Phil, except its own small sphere. It's amazing how many integrists think their influence is so much greater than it actually is. 99% of Catholics aren't even aware of the SSPX.

As to Gonzalez, I notice he's a priest in Los Angeles.

Ordained by that mean old lefty, Roger Mahoney.

4 posted on 08/02/2004 11:52:41 AM PDT by sinkspur (It is time to breed the dangerous Pit Bull Terrier out of existence!)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: CatherineSiena

**When some priests spoke in favor of optional celibacy at a Los Angeles priest assembly last year — a position supported by most American Catholics today — Gonzalez booed in dissent.**

This man is a tall man in my mind! Think of it -- in Los Angeles!


6 posted on 08/02/2004 12:18:13 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: CatherineSiena

Will it be OK with you if I add the words Catholic List to the keywords?

That is the new way that FR is tracking articles now...........always needs to be included on any Catholic Article!


7 posted on 08/02/2004 12:20:09 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: CatherineSiena

Thanks for the article- Wonderful- I am looking forward to the next generation of Bishops and Cardinals.


8 posted on 08/02/2004 12:20:47 PM PDT by Fast Ed97
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To: father_elijah; nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; attagirl; goldenstategirl; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

9 posted on 08/02/2004 12:21:56 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Fast Ed97

**I am looking forward to the next generation of Bishops and Cardinals.**

I'll second that idea!


10 posted on 08/02/2004 12:23:04 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: franky

I think the
Catholics-In-Name-Only
should be known as

"catholics Without Borders"

due to
the seemingly limitless girth
of the aging boomer membership,
and to their
"no bondaries" attitude
regarding doctrine.


11 posted on 08/02/2004 12:29:28 PM PDT by Notwithstanding (Fides et Ratio)
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To: sandyeggo

ARTICLE: "...however, the "John Paul priests" are less supportive than older colleagues of optional celibacy, women priests, the democratic elections of bishops and greater lay leadership."

IN PLAIN ENGLISH: these priests are not heretics


12 posted on 08/02/2004 12:31:17 PM PDT by Notwithstanding (Fides et Ratio)
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To: CatherineSiena

Sounds great, and I can cheer this priest and those like him! Wish there were more of them and that they were further up in the hierarchy!


13 posted on 08/02/2004 12:46:44 PM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (tired of shucking and jiving)
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To: CatherineSiena
I have a related experience to report: at my [former] local parish, a new priest, 28 years old and newly ordained, was dispatched. At one point I complained to him about the bad teaching that was shoved down my throat when I was younger. He replied in a disgusted tone: "that's the milk and cookies Jesus they give you. My religious education sucked too." On another occasion, I got the distinct impression that he was one of the meanies in favor of denying Communion to pro-aborts. Unfortunately, he is only an "associate pastor". The priest in charge is 60 years old. He lets girls "move liturgically" all over the alter, and substitutes the word 'forgive' for 'absolve' in the sacramental formula (no act of contrition required, either) . I have a feeling that if we are vigilant for the next few years, these younger priests will take over control and the Church will be able to rest her eyes a little. There's hope!
14 posted on 08/02/2004 12:58:24 PM PDT by Lilllabettt
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To: Lilllabettt
On another occasion, I got the distinct impression that he was one of the meanies in favor of denying Communion to pro-aborts.

If a priest is a "meanie" for denying Our Lord's Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, to a unrepetent public sinner of ANY sort, then we need more "meanies!"

15 posted on 08/02/2004 1:14:21 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Convert from ECUSA

Indeed we need more of these priests, and will have many more of them in the future soon, as the liberals die off. The problem these younger ones have now is that of having to skirt the liberal superior they deal with, in order to properly say mass, teach the faith, etc. They have a valiant struggle.


16 posted on 08/02/2004 1:30:11 PM PDT by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux!)
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To: thor76

"The problem these younger ones have now is that of having to skirt the liberal superior they deal with, in order to properly say mass, teach the faith, etc. They have a valiant struggle."

Sadly, you are correct. Fr. Stravinskas had an editorial in one of his last issues of "The Catholic Answer" chronicling just this fact. Some of these young men are LEAVING the priesthood after five years or so because of the Fr. Groovies and Sister Issues they have to deal with.

Sad.


17 posted on 08/02/2004 1:37:35 PM PDT by undirish01 (Go Irish! If only we can get the theology dept. turned around.)
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To: All; livius; chemicalman; Notwithstanding; PadreL; nickcarraway; NYer; Polycarp IV; ninenot; ...
A New Breed of Priest

And more to come!

Cardinal Arinze - "Youth will embrace religious life with right role models"

Today's seminarians reflect growing trend

Number of Seminarians Increases - Please Decipher This!!!!

In Seminaries, New Ways for a New Generation

Seminary Springtime: Father Darrin Connall s Big Success

EVIDENCE GROWS OF DIRECT DISOBEDIENCE TO VATICAN IN MAJOR AMERICAN SEMINARIES

Pope to Church: Risky Seminarians Must Go

Priests Down, Seminarians Up

U.S. Priests and seminarians survey: more vocations in orthodox dioceses

Vatican Announces Surge in Seminaries during JPII Pontificate

Seminary Reform Needed in Wake of Sex Abuse Study ["the crisis in the Church is ... homosexuality"]

Homosexuals in seminaries? The latest.....

Priests 'In Orgy' at Seminary

Bishop urges gay ban in clergy; presses for overhaul in screening priests

A New Breed of Priest

18 posted on 08/02/2004 1:56:55 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Lilllabettt
I was hoping for an epiphany in my parish as well. Our very sweet but very liberal priest just retired. The new priest came in with an ethnic name (I was praying that he would be like the priest at the very traditional local Slavic parish)and the rumor of being younger. Right.
This Sunday, still the altar girls, still the glass on the altar and still the holding and lifting hands for the Our Father (even the priest). He announced during the homily that he had been a priest for 37 years. My hopes were dashed.
19 posted on 08/02/2004 2:27:44 PM PDT by netmilsmom ("We haven't begun military action. the world will know when we do." -Marine in Fallujah)
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To: CatherineSiena; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp IV; narses; ...
At 41, he offers one glimpse of the future as a member of a new breed of younger priests ordained during the 25-year papacy of Pope John Paul II and passionately committed to the pope's orthodox teachings.

I have repeatedly heard on EWTN, similar stories from young men who were "called" to the priesthood during the pope's visit to Denver.

God has carefully watched over, nurtured and fed this new crop of priests. To Him be the glory now and forever, Amen!

20 posted on 08/02/2004 3:22:05 PM PDT by NYer (When you have done something good, remember the words "without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).)
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To: CatherineSiena

Praise God.


21 posted on 08/02/2004 3:28:30 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: gubamyster

bump


22 posted on 08/02/2004 3:31:00 PM PDT by gubamyster
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To: NYer; Salvation

I absolutely believe this article and it gives me great hope for the future. This Sunday, the seminarian at our parish just casually dropped into his sermon that Catholic husbands and wives should always be open to life. The thrust of his sermon was that Jesus considers all those who know the truths of the Catholic faith but willfully choose not to follow the teachings "fools".


23 posted on 08/02/2004 4:23:14 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: undirish01

That is very sad. If they cannot bear the cross of a disobedient superior, they should request a transfer to a more conservative parish or diocese. I just today mentioned on another thread that I know a young priest who did just that. He is now very happy and has started a street hockey club for the boys. I pray he will reap many vocations in his new parish.


24 posted on 08/02/2004 4:30:13 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: old and tired
*This Sunday, the seminarian at our parish just casually dropped into his sermon that Catholic husbands and wives should always be open to life.*

Thank you for sharing this!

Like your freeper name, there are times when I feel "old and tired" but my faith is sound and I truly trust in the future!

25 posted on 08/02/2004 4:46:48 PM PDT by NYer (When you have done something good, remember the words "without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).)
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To: Salvation
THANKS FOR THE PING!

"This man is a tall man in my mind! Think of it -- in Los Angeles!"

In my opinion, taller than Cardinal McIntire!
26 posted on 08/02/2004 4:53:40 PM PDT by Smartass ( BUSH & CHENEY IN 2004 - Si vis pacem, para bellum - Por el dedo de Dios se escribió.)
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To: NYer
NYer, I have been meaning to freepmail you that last week my wife and I attended daily Mass at a Maronite Rite church. We were briefly in the Richmond diocese and went one day to the Roman Catholic Church - there were no kneelers. My wife mentioned that she had seen a sign for a Maronite church so we checked it out. Very beautiful. Very reverent. The folks there weren't used to outsiders, so we were a bit of a curiosity and several approached us.

It turns out that particular Maronite church had several refugees from liberal parishes. Any idea how many folks have switched rites? We were also wondering, but didn't have the nerve to ask, if any of them would switch back once things get better in the Roman rite. Do you think you would switch back? (I'm much bolder on the internet!)

27 posted on 08/02/2004 5:02:25 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: netmilsmom

I think the only thing more traditional Catholics can do is to support parishes that are in line with tradition. I havent gone to a local parish in 2 and a half years. Have you considerd going to the more traditional Slavic parish?


28 posted on 08/02/2004 5:16:05 PM PDT by RFT1
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To: RFT1

>>Have you considerd going to the more traditional Slavic parish?<<

Going there is one thing, joining is another. They are in the process of expanding and are not taking new parishoners until then.

Also (although this is less important) my four year old is starting K CCD in the fall. She is homeschooled and doing first grade work. If I go to the Slavic CCD she will go back to Preschool. However if they would take us, we would deal with that.
I volunteered for the Education committee in the fall. I fear I will not be well liked. I plan to print out everything the Vatican recently frowned upon. MANY things are wrong with this parish.


29 posted on 08/02/2004 5:36:32 PM PDT by netmilsmom (A penny saved is a government oversight.)
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The "new" priest in our parish apparently read this article and was quite upset by it.

He went on to say how the Vatican II priests teach and preach "love" and the JPII priests preach "fire and brimstone." That, "sure there was a hell but God would never put anyone there." Then he went on saying that he would certainly not comment or preach on sexual sins and would stay out of our bedrooms! Especailly since he had no expertise in that matter.
Then he went on to say that he watched the Democratic Convention and said, "While not endorsing Kerry, at least Kerry was connected to his inner self and was complete in his life." Or something to that effect.

My husband of 23 years said that he had never had such a jarring homily in all his life. Ruined the day for us actually. --Until we read the article he was commenting on. What a refreshing piece - and from the LA Times for that matter.


30 posted on 08/02/2004 6:37:28 PM PDT by It's me
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To: old and tired

Not sure where you were in the Richmond diocese, it is quite large geographically, but there are 2 traditional parishes (more accurately one traditional parish in Richmond, and one traditional "mission" in chesapeake near virginia beach). Both allowed by the Bishop. I think there might be an SSPX church somewhere in Richmond, too (not sure, though, never been there).

Other than those two "indult" churches that I regularly attend when in Richmond, what I have seen in that diocese is positively frightening.


31 posted on 08/02/2004 6:58:40 PM PDT by bonaventura
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To: franky

"This lady has illusions of grandeur forced upon herself by her egoism."

Actually, they were probably put there by a previous pastor who was too lazy to run the parish himself, and turned it over to anyone willing to look after it. When this type of pastor is replaced, the new guy has a miserable time trying to rebuild a parish (and take away the "priestly faculties" his predecessor has bestowed on lay people in his tenure).


32 posted on 08/02/2004 7:36:10 PM PDT by Tuco Ramirez (Ideas have consequences.)
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To: sinkspur

"99% of Catholics aren't even aware of the SSPX."

At least 75% of these are ex-Catholics; and many others are probably masqueraders aligned with the pro-death Kerry crowd.

"Ordained by that mean old lefty, Roger Mahoney."

Ordained despite adversity from Roger the dodger.


33 posted on 08/02/2004 9:10:10 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: CatherineSiena
My son is one of the young priests of the "New Breed". We are unreservedly proud of him! He is strong in his Faith; loyal to the Magisterium & the Holy Father and loves his parishioners so much that his homilies reflect his desire to save them from Hell and guide them to the narrow path to Our Lord. He tells it like it is.... he is Catholic to the core. And he knows other young priests like himself. Keep these young guys in your prayers and if you are lucky enough to have one in your parish (we aren't), give them some moral support and pray for them as they pray for you. Benedicite. Pat
34 posted on 08/02/2004 9:38:55 PM PDT by irishsmile
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To: It's me
That, "sure there was a hell but God would never put anyone there."

God doesn't need to 'put us there', we get there just fine on our own ( to His dismay ) when we turn away from HIM!

35 posted on 08/02/2004 10:11:39 PM PDT by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we MUST!!!)
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To: Lilllabettt

That 28 year old priest sounds like dy-no-mite! He certainly gets my vote! Oh yeah! My 73-year old Irish dreadnought pastor would welcome him with open arms, they would be totally compatible in their views! As for that 60 year old.....the most charitable thing I'll say is that there is a clear lack of bran in his diet!

"I have a feeling that if we are vigilant for the next few years, these younger priests will take over control and the Church will be able to rest her eyes a little. There's hope!"

Lillabettt, that is a hope I share with you.


36 posted on 08/03/2004 4:41:44 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (tired of shucking and jiving)
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To: Pyro7480

"If a priest is a "meanie" for denying Our Lord's Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, to a unrepetent public sinner of ANY sort, then we need more "meanies!"

Amen and right-on! Preach it!


37 posted on 08/03/2004 4:42:31 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (tired of shucking and jiving)
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To: irishsmile

May the Lord greatly bless your son and strenghten him in his vocation!


38 posted on 08/03/2004 4:47:51 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (tired of shucking and jiving)
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To: sinkspur

Sinkspur, at last I think we are in agreement, at least in a limited sense:

"The SSPX is reshaping nothing, Phil, except its own small sphere. It's amazing how many integrists think their influence is so much greater than it actually is. 99% of Catholics aren't even aware of the SSPX."

1% of One Billion Catholics is about 10 million. Isn't that what you would define as THE remnant (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:5)?

"As to Gonzalez, I notice he's a priest in Los Angeles.
Ordained by that mean old lefty, Roger Mahoney."

"Old lefty" is right.

By the way, why is it that when the SSPX moves in on a diocese, the Ordinary of that diocese runs scared and calls up the FSSP or establishes the Indult Mass? Most recent example is the diocese of Phoenix.

Mattheus
http://alcazar.net


39 posted on 08/03/2004 5:35:47 AM PDT by Mattheus (Deus in adjutorium. O God, come to my assistance; O Lord, make haste to help me. -- Psalm 69:2)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: old and tired; sandyeggo; Convert from ECUSA
*My wife mentioned that she had seen a sign for a Maronite church so we checked it out. Very beautiful. Very reverent.*

And, probably a bit disorienting the first time you attend their liturgy. It simply improves on each visit. It is from Jewish roots that the church of Antioch sprung. In fact, the church of Antioch was founded by St. Peter and it was there that the terms "Christian" and "Catholic" were first used. The first Christians were Jews and entire communities came to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Evidence from archaeological studies of Maronite church buildings show that they had earlier been synagogues.

* The folks there weren't used to outsiders, so we were a bit of a curiosity and several approached us.*

Lol ... this is VERY Maronite! They are the most welcoming community that I have ever visited. They serve refreshments after their liturgies - as is done in many of the Eastern Rite churches. They enjoy meeting visitors and want to know how you found them and did you enjoy the liturgy.

*It turns out that particular Maronite church had several refugees from liberal parishes. Any idea how many folks have switched rites?*

Refugees .... is that how they classified themselves, lol? Some RCs are finally discovering the beauty and majesty of the Eastern Catholic Rites. A Roman rite Catholic may join any Eastern Catholic Parish and receive any sacrament from an Eastern Catholic priest, since all belong to the Catholic Church as a whole. It is not necessary to switch rites.

*We were also wondering, but didn't have the nerve to ask, if any of them would switch back once things get better in the Roman rite.*

I appreciate how confusing this concept can be. Within the one Catholic Church there are in fact many churches which maintain their own traditions of theology, liturgy, spirituality, and government that are quite different from those usually associated with "Roman," or Latin (Western) Catholicism.

The Church began in the East. Our Lord lived and died and resurrected in the Holy Land. The Church spread from Jerusalem throughout the known world. As the Church spread, it encountered different cultures and adapted, retaining from each culture what was consistent with the Gospel. In the city of Alexandria, the Church became very Egyptian; in Antioch it remained very Jewish; in Rome it took on an Italian appearance and in the Constantinople it took on the trappings of the Roman imperial court. All the churches which developed this way were Eastern, except Rome. Most Catholics in the United States have their roots in Western Europe where the Roman rite predominated. It has been said that the Eastern Catholic Churches are "the best kept secret in the Catholic Church."

The Vatican II Council declared that "all should realize it is of supreme importance to understand, venerate, preserve, and foster the exceedingly rich liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Eastern churches, in order faithfully to preserve the fullness of Christian tradition" (Unitatis Redintegrato, 15). Pope John Paul II said that "the Catholic Church is both Eastern and Western."

*Do you think you would switch back? (I'm much bolder on the internet!)*

Well ... I am still a Roman Catholic who attends mass at a Maronite Catholic Church. If you are referring to a canonical switch of rites, let me assure you that this is no simple process. It requires valid justification (escaping a liberal RC bishop does not qualify), the approval of both the Eparchial and Diocesan bishops. It is then forwarded to the Vatican. The applicant then has 6 months time in which to formalize the switch. This is a once in a lifetime event. It cannot be undone.

At my Maronite parish, is a couple who made the canonical switch from Roman to Melkite Catholic. At the time, they were living in PA. When they were transferred to Albany, they found no Melkite Church. The closest they have come is the Maronite Catholic Church, which is where they attend mass on Sunday.

Hope this clarifies any misunderstandings over the differences between the Western and Eastern Rites. Just remember, "catholic" = "catholic", be they Roman, Melkite, Ukrainian, Maronite, Syro-Malabar, etc.

41 posted on 08/03/2004 6:59:09 AM PDT by NYer (When you have done something good, remember the words "without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).)
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To: bonaventura
Not sure where you were in the Richmond diocese

Probably Glen Allen - St. Anthony's Maronite Catholic Church, on Sadler Road.

42 posted on 08/03/2004 7:11:34 AM PDT by NYer (When you have done something good, remember the words "without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).)
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To: sandyeggo
As the health of John Paul -- now 84 and the third-longest serving pontiff in history -- continues to falter, men like Gonzalez stand ready to guard and propagate his legacy. They represent a global trend toward Christian orthodoxy, in contrast to a generation of more liberal priests ordained during the 1960s reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

"We are very, very faithful to the Holy Father and not in any way dissenting from the teachings of the church," Gonzalez says of like-minded colleagues.

Praise God.

 
 

Prayer for the Pope

Lord, source of eternal life and truth, give to Your shepherd, the Pope, a spirit of courage and right judgement, a spirit of knowledge and love.

By governing with fidelity those entrusted to his care may he, as successor to the apostle Peter and vicar of Christ, build Your church into a sacrament of unity, love, and peace for all the world.

We ask this through our Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son, Who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, forever and ever.
Amen.



pope.gif

 

A Prayer for Priests

O Jesus, Eternal Priest, keep all Your priests within the shelter of Your Sacred Heart where none may harm them.

Keep unstained their anointed hands which daily touch Your Sacred Body.

Keep unsullied their lips purpled with Your Precious Blood.

Keep pure and unearthly their hearts sealed with the sublime marks of Your glorious priesthood.

Let Your holy love surround them and shield them from the world's contagion.

Bless their labors and abundant fruit, and may the souls to whom they ministered here below be their joy and consolation, and in Heaven their beautiful and everlasting crown. Amen.

O Mary, Queen of the clergy, pray for us; obtain for us a number of holy priests.
Amen.


43 posted on 08/03/2004 7:22:37 AM PDT by GirlShortstop (« O sublime humility! That the Lord... should humble Himself like this... »)
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To: undirish01
There have been several newly ordained priests come from my parish over the last few years, Praise God. They are right in there with this "new breed" of priests. They follow, loudly, the teachings of the Church. They are manly men.

The problem these younger ones have now is that of having to skirt the liberal superior they deal with, in order to properly say mass, teach the faith, etc.

Because of the shortage of priests, however, many of them will be having shorter associate pastorships. Some will become pastors of there own parishes after 7 years.

44 posted on 08/03/2004 7:43:09 AM PDT by no more apples (God Bless our troops)
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To: CatherineSiena

Thanks for posting this encouraging story.


45 posted on 08/03/2004 10:43:08 AM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: Notwithstanding

"IN PLAIN ENGLISH: these priests are not heretics"

My thought exactly!


46 posted on 08/03/2004 11:53:07 AM PDT by TNMountainMan ("I see that everyone who is for abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: AskStPhilomena

"Ordained despite adversity from Roger the dodger."

I meet a priest much like Father Marcos recently that had to leave LA and head to Alabama to attend seminary and receive ordination. The Diocese committee in LA didn't approve his view of women's ordination.


47 posted on 08/03/2004 11:58:26 AM PDT by TNMountainMan ("I see that everyone who is for abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: irishsmile

Prayers up for your son and for many more just like him.


48 posted on 08/03/2004 11:59:42 AM PDT by TNMountainMan ("I see that everyone who is for abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: NYer

I don't know where this Maronite Church being discussed is, but the one in Los Angeles is very Novus Ordo (Mass in English and facing the people). I wouldn't have been able to differentiate if I was in a novus ordo church until I saw that the Church was more traditionally oriented, i.e., Communion rail, traditional Stations of the Cross, statues, no banners, etc. This goes also for the Chaldean-Assyrian rite, except that it's in Arabic.


49 posted on 08/03/2004 12:17:03 PM PDT by Mattheus (Deus in adjutorium. O God, come to my assistance; O Lord, make haste to help me. -- Psalm 69:2)
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To: Mattheus; sandyeggo
I don't know where this Maronite Church being discussed is, but the one in Los Angeles is very Novus Ordo (Mass in English and facing the people)

The church being discussed is in Virginia.

Over the centuries, the Latin Church has introduced many of its practices to the Maronite Church, including statues, rosary, stations of the cross, etc. The Novus Ordo "look", (Mass in English and facing the people), came about, following Vatican Council II. Here is brief history of those changes.

The most recent reform in the Maronite liturgy came about as a resent of Vatican II. On December 4, 1963, the Vatican Ecumenical Council issued a decree entitled " The Liturgy".
In accordance with the terms of the decree and the wishes of the Maronite Clergy,

1) The Vatican Ecumenical Council.
2) The Maronite Bishops.
3) Other Members of the Maronite belief, clergy and laity alike.
4) The Maronite Patriarch in Lebanon who was empowered (by the terms of the regulations issued November 21, 1965, pertaining specifically to the Eastern Church and being part of the Ecumenical Decrees of Vatican II) to reform the liturgy of the Maronite Church, Hs Eminence Cardinal Patriarch Peter Paul Meouchi in a patriarchal decree, dated April 13, 1973, ordered the priests of the Maronite Church to amend the Mass and to use the new Ordo Missae, as new form of prayer and devotion for a trial of one year from the date of the decree.

Shortly after the Decree was issued, hostilities broke out in Lebanon, and His Beatitude and Eminence Cardinal Patriarch Antonius Peter Khoreiche prolonged the experimental year for a further indefinite period. Moreover, to free the clergy of the Maronite Church for more important work of ministering to those who had suffered as a result of the upheavals in Lebanon, His beatitude ordered a postponement of decision - making meetings respecting church procedures until some future date when the country was once more at peace.

In 1992, His Eminence Cardinal and Patriarch Nasrallah Boutros Sfeir, has ordered the new edition of the Maronite Mass, ad experimentum for five years.

The most important elements written into the Maronite Mass by the Patriarch at the time of the decree made April 13, 1973, and in July 1992 are as follows :

  1. In his observance of the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, a priest should always face the Congregation at those times when he directly addresses the Community or when he gives a blessing or benediction, and he should turn to the altar when he addresses or pray to the Lord.

  2. The text of the Mass should be in the vernacular particularly at those times when the priest speaks to the congregation. However, the words of Consecration, the Epiclesis (the invocation of the Holy Spirit), as well as certain hymns and blessings should be spoken in the original Aramaic, the language used by Christ, to remind the faithful of their Maronite heritage and traditions.

  3. The faithful will bow their heads in accordance with an ancient Maronite custom rather than genuflect in the roman catholic fashion.

  4. The first part of the Mass, the "preparation of the faithful", shall consist of prayers, hymns, and readings which will varied according the seasons of the Church and feast days honoured by our Holy mother Church.

  5. On certain special feast days during the year, such as Ash Monday, Palm Sunday, Commemoration of the Finding of the Cross, etc., and for weddings, funerals, and baptisms, a special liturgy appropriate to the occasion will replace the usual prayers prescribed for the preparation of the faithful.

I wouldn't have been able to differentiate if I was in a novus ordo church until I saw that the Church was more traditionally oriented, i.e., Communion rail, traditional Stations of the Cross, statues, no banners, etc.

In the Maronite Tradition, there never was nor still is a need for a communion rail. As you know, communion is by intinction and has always been administered standing.

In similar fashion, Maronites do not genuflect (a Latin tradition), rather, they make a profound bow towards the Tabernacle. It is also considered proper in the Maronite Rite, to stand after communion, rather than kneel. These practices are traditional to their liturgy.

50 posted on 08/03/2004 1:20:33 PM PDT by NYer (When you have done something good, remember the words "without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).)
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