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Pope Offers Communion to Pro-Choice Politician in Italy
Google cache of MSN ^ | Tuesday, July 27 | 1:04 p.m. ET | Melinda Henneberger:

Posted on 08/09/2004 8:53:46 PM PDT by narses

Melinda Henneberger: At an Environment 2004 party on Beacon Hill Monday evening I ran into Francesco Rutelli, the popular former mayor of Rome, and asked him about rumors that he, a pro-choice Catholic of the Italian left, had nonetheless received communion from Pope John Paul II himself.

"Oh yes, this is true,'' he said, and asked to be walked though the controversy in the American Catholic Church, where some bishops have suggested that pro-choice politicians like John Kerry should be denied communion. "This is very strange for me,'' Rutelli said, "that you cannot be a Christian and also uphold the law of your country.''

"So, this is politics, too?'' he asked of the bishops, wryly suggesting that perhaps these American prelates were too far from Rome—and too close to Washington.

(Excerpt) Read more at 64.233.161.104 ...


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicpoliticians
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To: Maeve
Thanks for the ad hominems. It's what I've come to expect here from the oh-so-Catholics.

Tell me how Italian mayors influence abortion. Please be exact and specific, with examples and links.

41 posted on 08/10/2004 6:45:18 AM PDT by sinkspur (If we were as good as our dogs think we are, what a wonderful world we'd have!)
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To: horatio
Just curious, homosexual rape is that much more serious than a man raping a woman?

Regular rape doesn't "cry to Heaven for vengeance" but homosexual rape does?

The term I see when I see those listed is buggery. Buggery is historically forced anal sex, and it assumes the rapist is male. Regular rape is a mortal sin, obviously, and indeed it would be a sin demanding vengeance by the Most High, as are all sins are demanding of divine justice. I would agree with you, buggery and rape can possibly kill the soul of the victim.

Those four crimes are listed as the most depraved crimes of indifference to another man that men (and women) can commit. I think they are emphasized as an admonishment, and I find it interesting that crimes against the poor and the working man are prevalent, as you recall, depriving a man of wages often meant family members starved to death.

This is a traditional listing of the four crimes, and doesn't mean other sins don't also cry out for vengeance. I would think that genocide fits in there, as does slavery and prostitution.
42 posted on 08/10/2004 6:54:14 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: horatio
Ask God. The bible specifically mentions homosexual conduct as crying out to heaven for justice.
43 posted on 08/10/2004 7:01:23 AM PDT by johnb2004
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; saradippity; american colleen; sinkspur; Dominick; narses; BlackElk; ...
...since it was he [JPII] who removed all debate on the topic by solemnly dogmatizing the moral teaching against abortion in Evangelium Vitae.

You are absolutely right H-t-C.  It is astonishing at how easily this thread, filled with opinion from good Catholics could feed the ammo of the Enemy.

Stop and think:  Do mistakes, accidents not happen anymore?  Who has posted [from the "fact filled" comprehensive article] what JPII's reaction is to this incident?  Is the communion line for the Pope's distribution somehow monitored so that the recipient's state of grace is guaranteed?  Did the Italian man meet with his bishop to clear up his pro-death choice position so that he could worthily receive Communion?  Do you believe that John Paul II did this purposely?

Lastly, lest a lurker think this thread's content expresses otherwise:  it is NEVER appropriate to use the Most Holy Eucharist as some sort of "gotchya tool" to further an opinion/agenda on a matter.  NEVER!!!!
FReegards.
44 posted on 08/10/2004 7:03:17 AM PDT by GirlShortstop ( O sublime humility! That the Lord... should humble Himself like this... )
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To: sinkspur

What difference does that make? If an elected official publicly endorses abortion that should be enough evidence to forbid them holy Communion.

Whether they have the authority to legislate it should not be the only issue. Leading others astray is a grave offense.


45 posted on 08/10/2004 7:05:37 AM PDT by johnb2004
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To: GirlShortstop
Lastly, lest a lurker think this thread's content expresses otherwise: it is NEVER appropriate to use the Most Holy Eucharist as some sort of "gotchya tool" to further an opinion/agenda on a matter. NEVER!!!! FReegards.

DING! Absolutely correct!

Some folks will use anything to show that the Pope is somehow apostate, and that any disobedience is justified.

Shall I send you flowers, or some new baseballs?
46 posted on 08/10/2004 7:06:35 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: sinkspur

You can call it whatever you like. As far as your demands, forget it. I don't respond to demands. Go learn Italian and find the answers for yourself.


47 posted on 08/10/2004 7:08:36 AM PDT by Maeve (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!)
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To: ultima ratio
"Joke: Is the Pope Catholic? No Joke Answer: Not really. "

Not according to Republicans in America. The party that has never nominated a Catholic is holier than the Pope. I'll believe the GOP is really pro-life when they nominate a pro-life Catholic for President. Any chance?

48 posted on 08/10/2004 7:11:14 AM PDT by ex-snook ("BUT ABOVE ALL THINGS, TRUTH BEARETH AWAY THE VICTORY")
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To: Maeve
As far as your demands, forget it. I don't respond to demands.

You can't. That doesn't surprise me.

Be careful who you call "ignorant" around here, dearie.

49 posted on 08/10/2004 7:13:04 AM PDT by sinkspur (If we were as good as our dogs think we are, what a wonderful world we'd have!)
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To: sinkspur
It's what I've come to expect here from the oh-so-Catholics.

And shall I write what I expect of you? You may not remember me, but I am of that family that knows you well, the family of history-matters. I remember everything.

50 posted on 08/10/2004 7:15:47 AM PDT by Maeve (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!)
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To: Dominick
Shall I send you flowers, or some new baseballs?

Flowers, please.... they'll serve as a beautiful reminder of God's goodness; I can also take them with me to Mass so they can be put near the Blessed Mother statue in the church.    Baseballs/softballs won't cut it.  ;-)      Pax et bonum FRiend.
51 posted on 08/10/2004 7:16:24 AM PDT by GirlShortstop ( O sublime humility! That the Lord... should humble Himself like this... )
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To: Maeve
For which I have profusely apologized to your mother.

Recite the Our Father, very slowly.

52 posted on 08/10/2004 7:17:11 AM PDT by sinkspur (If we were as good as our dogs think we are, what a wonderful world we'd have!)
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To: sinkspur
Be careful who you call "ignorant" around here, dearie.

This twisted warning from you is very funny. I provided several possibilities, but you have underlined "ignorant" yourself.

Go learn Italian. It broadens horizons. You may even learn something about Italian civil polity in the long run.

53 posted on 08/10/2004 7:20:41 AM PDT by Maeve (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!)
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To: Maeve

No.


54 posted on 08/10/2004 7:21:20 AM PDT by sinkspur (If we were as good as our dogs think we are, what a wonderful world we'd have!)
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To: sinkspur
Recite the Our Father, very slowly.

You will not give me directions of any nature, most especially not spiritual. Stand down and back away.

Your apologies to my mother is a matter between you and her. What one may forgive does not mean one will forget. And what one learns, remains.

55 posted on 08/10/2004 7:25:37 AM PDT by Maeve (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!)
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To: GirlShortstop
Is the communion line for the Pope's distribution somehow monitored so that the recipient's state of grace is guaranteed?

We are talking about manifest grave sin. This former mayor is known to publicly advocate abortion [read: sin]. Do you think the Pope doesn't know who the mayor of Rome is, or the political positions held by said mayor, at any given time?

Having said that, I don't believe that the Pope would knowingly commit a sacrilege. If anyone is playing "gotcha" it is the person who "reported" this incident. She is obviously on the abortion supporters should be able to receive Communion side of the issue and has not presented all of the relevant facts.

56 posted on 08/10/2004 7:27:09 AM PDT by ELS
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To: sinkspur
Mayors don't influence public policy.

Red herring. Your entire contribution to this thread is a sleight-of-hand irrelevancy.

57 posted on 08/10/2004 7:46:29 AM PDT by Romulus ("Que la Terreur soit a l'ordre du jour.")
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To: horatio

No homosexual sex in general cries to heaven for vengence. It is a total disorder and perversion of morals.


58 posted on 08/10/2004 7:51:28 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Maeve

OK. It's your grudge.


59 posted on 08/10/2004 8:06:29 AM PDT by sinkspur (If we were as good as our dogs think we are, what a wonderful world we'd have!)
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To: Romulus
Your entire contribution to this thread is a sleight-of-hand irrelevancy.

LOL! Romulus, do you have a single word about the topic of the thread?

60 posted on 08/10/2004 8:07:28 AM PDT by sinkspur (If we were as good as our dogs think we are, what a wonderful world we'd have!)
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