Posted on 09/22/2004 7:55:44 PM PDT by missyme
Ezekiel 38:1-7 gives 10 names as participants in the invasion of Israel that will follow the regathering of the Jews to their homeland.
First mentioned, is the land of Magog. The most common identity for Magog is in Central Asia. The Jewish historian Josephus said, "Magog founded the Magogians, called Scythians by the Greeks.
Scythians were a nomadic tribe who inhabited the ancient territory from Central Asia across the southern part of ancient Russia." Today this area is inhabited by the former Soviet Republics of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, and possibly northern parts of Afghanistan.
All of these nations that make up the land of Magog have one thing in common - Islam. Militant Islam has been on the rise in these countries since the fall of the Soviet Union, when Islam no longer had to be practiced secretly. Radical Islamic groups such as the Islamic Renaissance Party, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, and Hizb ut-Tahrir al-Islam are working to reunite central Asian nations and ultimately the entire Muslim world.
It is from this part of the world that a leader will arise to bring together a great coalition of nations to invade Israel.
Probably the most debated verse is Ezekiel 38:3. There are two main views on the identity of the Nations God is referring to in this verse. I'll list both here, and let the reader decide which sounds most reasonable.
Rosh as Russia
Some versions of the Bible translate the Hebrew word 'rosh' in verse 3 as a noun referring to a place in Russia. The least credible support for this view is that Rosh sounds like the modern-day name Russia and Meshech sounds like Moscow.
In this translation they treat rosh as a proper name. The Greek translation translates Rosh as the proper name Ros. Because the ancient Sarmations were known as the Ras, Rashu, and Rus and inhabited Rasapu which is now Southern Russia, some feel this verse points to Russia as the prince of Rosh. Another support sited for this view is that verse 6 and 15 say the invasion will come from remote parts of the north, and Russia is more remote.
So, how should Christians respond to this prophecy? In Ezekiel 39:6,7, and 28 God says that this end-times battle will happen that "they will know that I am the Lord".
This message that God's purpose is to cause Israel and the other nations to know He is Lord is repeated over 60 times in Ezekiel. By learning about prophecy and teaching it to others, people will be able to see the glory, majesty, and sovereignty of God in the fulfillment of His divine word.
By knowing our Bible and teaching it to others, they will be able to see that there is a divine creator, and a plan for them. Through Jesus Christ and the salvation he offers us freely, there is victory and an eternity more glorious than they can imagine.
........No way is it Islam.......but,....
but??
The Rosh=Russia interpretation was introduced to Christians in the first edition of the Scofield Reference Bible in 1917. Scofield wrote that "The reference to Meshech and Tubal (Moscow and Tobolsk) is a clear mark of identification (i.e., with Russia)."11 The views of Scofield, Lindsey, and LaHaye are not supported by Bible-believing Christian historians, archaeologists, and linguists. Edwin M. Yamauchi, professor of history at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, is an authority on the subject, and disagrees with Lindsey's analysis. He writes that the Hebrew word rosh "can have nothing to do with modern 'Russia.' This would be a gross anachronism, for the modern name is based upon the name Rus, which was brought into the region of Kiev, north of the Black Sea, by the Vikings only in the Middle Ages."12 Other evangelical scholars agree:From But Is It In The Bible? by Gary DeMarThere is no evidence from the ancient Near East that a country named Rosh ever existed. Some would understand rosh as modern Russia. Proponents of this view usually appeal to etymology based on similar sounds (to the hearing) between two words. Such etymological procedures are not linguistically sound, nor is etymology alone a sound hermeneutical basis on which to interpret a word. The word "Russia" is a late eleventh-century A.D. term. Therefore, the data does [sic] not seem to support an interpretation of rosh as a proper name of a geographical region or country.13
Rosh is a common Hebrew word that is used hundreds of times in the Bible and means "chief," "head," or "beginning." For example, Rosh Hashanah marks the beginning of the Jewish New Year. It is described as a "high holy day" because it is the chief or head holy day of the year. It literally means "head of the year" or "first of the year." Jews also celebrate Rosh Hodesh, the beginning of the new month in the Jewish calendar and celebrated during the morning worship time in a Jewish synagogue (1 Sam. 20:5).
Any concordance will show that rosh is never used as a proper name that refers to a nation.14 There are priests in Israel and there are "chief priests." The word for "chief" is rosh (2 Kings 25:18; 1 Chron. 27:5; 2 Chron. 19:11; 24:6; 26:20; 31:10; Ezra 7:5; Jer. 52:24).
We can even imagine the ancient folks known as Dravidians and Sumerians to have qualified for the name ~ had there been anyone else around literate enough to write it down, eh?!
It's simply a description of a culture appropriate to life in the steppes, which have a well-understood location.
Then how do you understand Gog and Magog and who it refers to?
My understanding is that Gog and Magog are part of a revolt that happens at the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign on earth - just before the final judgement.
Land of Magog - Josephus the great Jewish historian identifies the Magogites as descendents of the Scythians who branched eastward and westward from the region north of the Black Sea. Magogites are also considered to be Goths; a Germanic people that took over the Scythian territory. East and West Europe as the heart of Antichrist's Empire(the 10 horns of Daniel 7) would certainly be considered the land of Magog.
So your talking Pre-Tribulation?
***So your talking Pre-Tribulation?***
More like 1,000 years after the tribulation.
[Return of Christ - Armageddon]
Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, "Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great." And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.
[Binding of Satan]
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
[Beginning of Millenial Reign of Christ & Believers]
Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
[End of Millenium - Final Rebellion - Gog & Magog]
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
[Great White Throne - Final Judgement]
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Then from what your saying the rapture will have happened before the Anti-Christ reigns and is able to deceive nations, meaning the Anti-Christ cannot come into power until all believers have gone...
***the Anti-Christ cannot come into power until all believers have gone***
Actually I believe that Christians will ride out the first part of the tribulation and experience the wrath of the Antichrist but will be taken out before the last part of the tribulation which is the pouring out of God's wrath on the world.
ping for your thoughts
Best part of southern Russia to fill this prophecy would be chechnya.
Yes, it is Islam. The same family that has been fighting the Jews since time began. There is nothing new under the sun.
This is the problem I have with that theory, if a Anti-Christ appears on scene with the amount of Cristians in the world he would be identified and no-one would let him come to power...IMO Putin looks like he could be an Anti-Christ that could come to power and if he seem to be going that way he would be eliminated....But what I am trying to say is how can an Anti-Christ come to power with the amount of Christians in the world that know the Bible and study Prophecy?
"were a people whom Herodotus (4.21-117) in the 5th century BC put on the eastern boundary of Scythia beyond the Tanais (Don). They were an Iranian people akin to the Scythians (Saka).
"The location and extent of Scythia varied over time from the Altai region where Mongolia, China, Russia, and Kazakhstan come together to the lower Danube river area and Bulgaria. The most significant Scythian tribes mentioned in antique sources resided in the steppe between the Dnieper and Don rivers and its neighbourhood, and those areas have for a long time been inhabitated by Iranian groups."
Time to stop looking for the Russians to fit this prophecy it seems.
Btw, just beyond the Don and to the east is chechnya.
Truly a portal to Hades, after all.
Absolutely that area is identified in prophecy...
Right but a leader still has to emerge from an Islamic Nation...He has not as of yet....
Could be you guys are on to something.
We don't really do this stuff in the Orthodox church but this can be very interesting.
Still waiting for Basayev to breed.
Ezekiel 38-39 are presently inhabited by Islamic nations, and they will form alliances with one another.
With the breakup of the former Soviet Union the nine former Soviet Republics we looked at in the beginning of this study are free to act independently in negotiations as they choose.
These republics are definitely being wooed by both the Turks and the Iranians. The seeds of militant Islam is even now being sown.
The great Gog coalition began with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 - 1992. How striking! The fall of the Soviet Empire has made the fulfillment of Ezekiel more likely than it formerly was.
You've gotta be kidding.
Why is that so out of the question?
***he would be identified and no-one would let him come to power***
How may Christians outside of the protestant groups in America really study prophesy in any large number? I'd bet not many. (Maybe the Asians).
The Antichrist will come to power because God allows it - God gives the nations over to his power and sends them a "strong delusion" that they might believe the lie.
Look at the rise and progerss of Hitler in "Christian" Germany.
Look at the defeats Christians are suffering in the public arena in America and Europe and project it out thirty years.
Consider this, in 1984 Otto Von Hapsburg, a member of the common market parliament made this statement. “If Iran collapses in its war with Iraq there will be a chain reaction throughout the Middle East . . . the Shiites believe that the 12th Imman (successor to Mohammed) is coming back. They believe that this Mahdi - their messiah - is about to approach, that there will be a united world directed by the Shiites, that Khomeini is the prophet of the approaching Mahdi”.
***We don't really do this stuff in the Orthodox church***
I have heard the figure that over 70% of the Bible deals with prophesy or thing of a prophetic nature.
The whole idea of an anti-Christ (and the Rapture) is nonsense.
However, if there were to an Anti-Christ, do you really think it would be a former KGB submarine analyst?
I thought the Jack Van Impe view was that the anti-Christ would have to arise in lands of the old Roman Empire?
President Bush is a evangelical christian, do you really believe that he isn't aware of the Anti-Christ through prophecy and would identify him in a hot second if he came to power?
Why do you give so much credibility to an obscure European politican?
If you have that attitude then you would be one of the first ones the Anti-Christ would be able to decieve....
I don't think anyone has really a clear cut view where he will arise from....
***President Bush is a evangelical christian, do you really believe that he isn't aware of the Anti-Christ through prophecy and would identify him in a hot second if he came to power?***
Why is Bush hated in the world? Largely because he is an unapologetic Christian. When I look at the vast crowds of anti-Bush protestors around the world I see in those crowds the seeds of a movement that would sweep an Antichrist, a man of "peace", into office - given the right circumstances.
The Bible speaks of the man of sin being "revealed". Almost as if the stage is fully set and he suddenly appears.
BTW: From what I understand, Reagan was a student of prophesy.
Which is probably your best bet to stick with.
Yes but not about the endtimes or the antichrist.
Perhaps. But I certainly would not want to live under a theocracy run by Jesus.
***The whole idea of an anti-Christ (and the Rapture) is nonsense.***
I thought much the same before I began to carefully look at Scripture.
Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Revelations and other books contain details about a world which to them was thousands of years in the future. Many of these details describe realities of our own day and age - realities that have only existed in the last 50 years.
It appears that this coming world leader will rise to
power on a wave of global euphoria as he arrives on the scene to temporarily save the world from its desperate economic, military and political woes. Like Satan himself, who frequently appears as an angel of light, this man will deceive most of the world into thinking that he is a great man of peace, a hero. The prophet Daniel wrote of the Antichrist, "By peace he shall destroy many," and "he shall come in peaceably and obtain the kingdom by flatteries" (Daniel 8:25; 11:21).
I am not sure about a leader appearing, but I know that I know that Islam is the enemy of God's people everywhere.
The thousand year reign of Christ is in heaven. Time on earth ends when Jesus comes, and there is no more time.
Lucky for you, he has given you a choice to live 'under his theocracy'. He'd prefer it if you chose him, but he ain't gonna hold a gun to your head to do so.
***The thousand year reign of Christ is in heaven. ***
That certainly is one interpretation. But look at the Revelation passage, The thousand year reign comes after the destruction of the Beast and false Prophet.
This really is a bit much for you people to handle. What about Chapter 12 verse 1 about the woman clothed in the sun. It's obviously Mary Our Mother specifically Our Lady of Fatima(The Day the Sun Danced). Pope John Paul II and Pope Paul VI have both basicaly confirmed that the woman clothed in the sun is Our Lady of Fatima. The Anti-Christ is about the great apostasy in the One True Holy Catholic Church. Also the third of the stars in the sky are the fallen clergy(clearly seen in the abuse scandals, but it's only a tip of the iceberg) in the Church most likely due to the Modernist heresies which swept the Church especially due to Vatican II and the New Order. Pope Saint Pius X warned us of these modernist heresies and even stated that it could be related to the end times. The clergy are stars in the heavens who lead others to Heaven. To all Catholics out there can't you see that Satan has infiltrated the Church basically and wiped out the Mass in order for the faithful to forget about the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ Our Lord, wiped out our leaders to lead the faithful to heaven and is now trying to wipe out the Rosary to disarm the faithful with these ridiculous luminous mysteries and other imperfections. "The Rosary is the weapon" as Padre Pio said and this weapon is severly weakened with these modern additions to the Rosary. The Rosary is a perfect weapon because it's God's weapon given to us by Our Lady. It's power is not of this world and seeemingly innocent additions are exteremly grave and must be avoided. They are imperfections which leave the rosary unsuitable as a weapon for God. The Anti-Christ is either amongst us now and will be very very very soon.
THANKS FOR YOUR POSTS, AS EVER.
Have wondered if the -stans and India OR China could be the King of the East. I realize China has historically been considered so.
And, while I still tend to think 90% or more of Biblical prophecies will be lieterally fulfilled as written, I've wondered if the 200,000,000 strong army of the King of the East might not be some sort of FORCE EQUAL THERETO in modern terms . . . nukes or what?
I think I tried years ago to get a thread going about end time prophecies and news items. I think the Daniel thread is the most successful on that score. I was virtually ran off for being a troll for thinking supernatural anythings had any value to FREEPERS at all. There were some hyper-hostile people toward anything of that ilk in those days and they had favor with powers that be. I Pray those days are over. And, I think the religion forum etc. have taken a lot of the steam out of such hostilities.
I'd be happy to have such posts on the TP thread but one with a suitable title might be better. Perhaps finding a current published article about such things would be a good start. I won't start it.
I kind of think the 10 nation confederacy will be more global. In fact, you may be aware that many people contend that the puppet masters have already divided the world up into 10 regions to be ruled as nations when the world government comes more overtly to power. Don't know if I can guess them . . . NORTH AMERICA; SOUTH AMERICA; AUSTRALIA; PHILIPPINES/INDONESIA/PACIFICA; AFRICA; EUROPE; CHINA/JAPAN; INDIA/SRI LANKA; MIDDLE EAST/ARABIA; RUSSIA???
My guesses could be off in several areas.
As I understand it, the FREE TRADE ZONES movement is a preliminary setting such up.
Anyway--FWIW.
LUB
AMEN!
We shall see!
WATCH THE USA RECENTLY!
WITNESS cBS . . .
BILLDO AND SHRILLERY FOR *8* YEARS!
KOFI ANAN'S GAH GAH FOLLOWING.
The world is populated by idiots who never learned how to think and read little.
The media has long been complicit in the puppet masters' efforts.
But, yeah, with the Christians around, it would be problematic for him.
And, the puppet masters have been increasingly overtly hostile to Christians. Soros is just the most recent and most well heeled and most obvious.
Jail for pastors teaching Bible against homosexuality in Scandinavia, Canada etc. coming soon to a neighborhood near you.
Thankfully, God is in Charge, regardless.
And God and His kids with Him, win in the end.
And it was won at Calvary and demonstrated at the Resurrection.
What was the prophecy published about some years ago about a blue turbaned Islamic leader conquering the world?
I don't have the verse on the time of my mind . . . but there's a verse, that to my recollection mentions the king of the north coming from
"the uttermost north."
Seems to me, that from Jerusalem, Moscow is still the capital of that nation.
FWIW.
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