CALVINISM: ITS DOCTRINE OF INFANT SALVATION

Good News from the Redeemer ^ | June 28-July5, 1997 | Daniel Parks, Redeemer Baptist Church of Louisville KY

[Gamecock]

If I understand correctly, the idea is that they are redeemed in the womb or sometime prior to their unfortunate early demise.

I think you have it Dave. Based on this belief I should think that is was from the foundation of the world... (Agree?)

[SoothingDave]

Based on this belief I should think that is was from the foundation of the world... (Agree?)

Of course. God isn't winging it.

I wonder why it's OK to contemplate the unborn being born without sin, and yet y'all freak when we say Mary was born without sin.

[stuartcr]

You know this to be fact?

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

I've seen it argued by Calvinists that the regeneration which preceeds faith is different from being born again which is the result not the cause of salvation. You seem to take the position that one is made a new creation in Christ apart from and prior to the exercise of faith. But since faith is a necessary element of salvation, this would mean that one is actually saved before the exercise of faith which would appear to contradict the scriptures which state clearly that we are saved "by Grace through faith."

Faith is simply trusting in Jesus Christ for the atonement of your sins. When God Regenerates a Man, He creates that Trusting Faith within that Man. Men do not give Faith to God; God gives Faith to men. Think of the "exercise of faith" as the "exercise of breathing" -- God breathes spiritual life into the spiritually dead, and they do live and breathe.

Was Adam alive before God breathed life into him? Was he ever alive apart from breathing, or breathing apart from being alive? No, of course not.

In the sovereign act of Regeneration, God creates Faith within a spiritually dead Man, bringing that Man to spiritual life by His own purely monergistic-grace, through the creation of Faith within that Man.

After a spiritually-dead Man has been brought to spiritual life by God's purely-monergistic creation of Faith within him, he does "exercise faith" as the living exercise breath. But the initiation of that Man's Faith, the creation of his spiritual breath -- and thus the entire transaction of his salvation -- is purely by the monergistic Regeneration of God alone.

For the Bible adamantly teaches -- Faith is God-pleasing; and no man, while yet Unregenerate, ever chooses that which is God-pleasing.

[Gamecock]

That Infants stay where you put them, frequently throwing up and soiling themselves with each feeding?

It better be so, that's what I tell parents during well baby exams.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

I wonder why it's OK to contemplate the unborn being born without sin, and yet y'all freak when we say Mary was born without sin.

That's not what we "freak" about.

If the Romanist dogma was simply that Mary, after being conceived, was thence Regenerated in the womb -- well, it still would be a Biblically-unsupported dogma, but no more objectionable (in theory) than the Biblically-supported case of John the Baptist.

The problem is, Romanism teaches the immaculate conception of Mary. That's rather a different ball of wax, from being conceived in inquity like all children of Adam and thenceforth Regenerated in the womb prior to birth.

[Gamecock]

I wonder why it's OK to contemplate the unborn being born without sin, and yet y'all freak when we say Mary was born without sin.

I don't recall reading that we think that we believe infants are born sin free, though many of our Arminian friends would disagree. I think it was Calvin who said "infants are as depraved as rats." That is, of course, absurd. Rats do what they were created to do: be rats. It is man who is rebellious.

I think the article basically teaches that infants who die are considered elect......

[stuartcr]

Not that, the part about paradise.

[Gamecock]

I think there is a compelling argument to believe so.

What I do know is this: whatever happens to their little souls, it is determined by a just and Holy God, and not by any of us.

[stuartcr]

I agree. I cannot believe that God would create us, only to require salvation from something, at birth.

[SoothingDave]

The problem is, Romanism teaches the immaculate conception of Mary. That's rather a different ball of wax, from being conceived in inquity like all children of Adam and thenceforth Regenerated in the womb prior to birth.

Sure it's different, but once you acknowledge that God can "save" one from sin without any prior action required on one's part, the idea of creating one without sin in the first place, as a special grace, is not that far a drive.

SD

[gracebeliever]

You state that "God creates Faith within a spiritually dead Man." It may seem to be splitting hairs, but Romans 10:17 teaches that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." While God is the author of His Book through God the Holy Spirit, it seems one must first hear and believe, i.e., have faith, before the work of regeneration occurs.

For example, in Eph. 1:13, we're told "In whom ye also trusted (have faith in), after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also after that ye believed (have faith in), ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise." The order seems to be that we hear the Word, trust the Word, believe the Word and then get sealed with the Holy Spirit Himself. So it appears from this Scripture that we must have faith before we are regenerated, which is an act of the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:4,5 (one of the only two instances of the word regeneration in the NT), Romans 8:11. While this may happen virtually instantaneously when one believes and is saved, Paul, as directed by the Holy Spirit, is rather specific in the order.

You must base you conclusion that the "Bible adamantly teaches - faith is God pleasing" from Hebrews 11:6. While this is essentially what that verse teaches, it is only part of the truth. The Bible also clearly teaches that only Jesus pleased the Father and aways did what pleased the Father, Jn. 8:29, Mt. 3:17, 12:18, etc. The only way we can please the Father is to allow Christ to live in and through us as taught in Gal. 2:20, which states it is "the faith of Son of God" in us that pleases the Father. We can only do the works of faith, per Eph. 2:10, because of Christ in us after we've been saved per Eph. 2:8,9.

Just some food for thought.

BTW, since the thread is about infant salvation, I do not see where anyone has referenced King David's comment after the death of his son as found in 2Sam. 12:23, "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." What is your take on this verse? David certainly expected to see his son again.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

You state that "God creates Faith within a spiritually dead Man." It may seem to be splitting hairs, but Romans 10:17 teaches that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." While God is the author of His Book through God the Holy Spirit, it seems one must first hear and believe, i.e., have faith, before the work of regeneration occurs.

No, you're just presuming that Unregenerate people will respond to the Gospel without prior Regeneration. It is more proper to understand that the ordinary means that God uses to Regenerate and create Faith in His Elect is via the preaching of the Gospel -- the Spirit uses the preaching of the Gospel the breathe spiritual life and Faith into those, the Elect, to whom He is sent.

It is absolutely Anti-Biblical to suggest that Unregenerate people "choose God" of their own volition without prior monergistic Regeneration by God alone. The Scriptures adamantly teach that those who are Spiritually Dead DON'T EVER DO THAT.

The Biblical Laws of Human Depravity:
• LAW 1.) The Spiritually Dead are born wicked. (Genesis 8:21; Psalms 58:3)
• LAW 2.) All humanely-benevolent works of the Spiritually Dead are considered by God to be unclean filthiness. (Isaiah 64:6)
• LAW 3.) As long as he is Spiritually Dead, the Unregenerate Man never freely wills the action of Righteous Good. (Jeremiah 13:23)
• LAW 4.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, the hearts of Unregenerate Men are only and always set upon the doing of evil. (Ecclesiastes 8:11)
• LAW 5.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, the hearts of Unregenerate Men are spiritually insane. (Ecclesiastes 9:3)
• LAW 6.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, the hearts of Unregenerate Men always despise the Light of Grace. (John 3:19)
• LAW 7.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, the hearts of Unregenerate Men always reject the ministrations of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 7:51)
• LAW 8.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, the hearts of Unregenerate Men NEVER Seek God. (Romans 3:10-11)
• LAW 9.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, the hearts of Unregenerate Men NEVER will any action whatsoever of Righteous Good. (Romans 3:12)
• LAW 10.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, it is defined as BIBLICALLY-IMPOSSIBLE that the Unregenerate Man should ever will any Righteous Good. (Romans 7:18)
• LAW 11.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, the hearts of Unregenerate Men NEVER perform any God-pleasing Action of Will whatsoever. (Romans 8:5-8)
• Law 12.) As long as they are Spiritually Dead, the hearts of Unregenerate Men are utterly incapable of knowing, understanding, or believing any Spiritual Truth. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

Once the nature of Spiritual Death is correctly understood according to the teachings of Scripture, it becomes clearly evident that it is Biblically-impermissible to teach that Unregenerate men "respond to" and "choose God" prior to God's own monergistic Regeneration of their dead spirits.

And God regenerates whomsoever He will, according to His own Election.

Best, OP

[bremenboy]

The false teaching of Calvinism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1246663/posts

[Colonel Kangaroo]

The one thing I would add to the discussion is that man's spirit and his nature came from God, not from Adam's sinful nature. (Ecclesiastes 12:7, Hebrews 12:9) To say that man begins life evil would be the same as to accuse the Father of spirits of creating evil.

How can one go astray (Psalms 58:3) if he started out life depraved? The depraved have nowhere to go but up.

[HarleyD]

The false teachings of Calvinism???

How would you answer my question in post #53? Are babies who die innocent and have no need for a Savior? Or why do they need a Savior if they're innocent? Don't cast stones.

[bremenboy]

The Bible teaches that Jesus came to save the lost(Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.)
If you saw I man drowning in a lake and you tossed him a rope, pulled him in them you would be saving his life. All babies and young children have no sin. Thus are not lost and have no need of a savior. Sin is defined as a transgression of Gods Law (1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.)
Babies are not saved they are safe since they are not capable of transgressing Gods word. As far as casting stones if teaching that babies are totally depraved
utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions" - Chap. VI, sec. 1-4.
of the Westminster Confession of Faith in the Presbyterian Book of Confessions. is not casting stones upon the innocent I don't know what is.

[Gamecock]

***The false teaching of Calvinism***


For a counter point. (after all, we should be fair and balanced)

http://www.all-of-grace.org/pub/pribble/damnable.html

[gracebeliever]

I am not presuming but am strictly going by what God tells us in His Word. And that is that He offers salvation freely to all who respond to the Word in faith. When God sees a person has heard the Word and by faith believes that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and rose again the third day, 1Cor. 15:1-4, God the Holy Spirit brings that person into the Body of Christ. Salvation has many aspects, one of which is regeneration, and that is how we get into the Body of Christ. But the hearing comes first before the responding then the regenerating.

Thanks for the little study on human depravity. I have no problem with how destitute man is and how the unregenerate are spiritually dead. However, what a dead person needs is life. And that life is in the Son of God. The Holy Spirit of God regenerates man through the Word and quickens him. When a man is quickened, which is a different word than regenerated but has much the same meaning, he is placed by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is God's elect. With the exception of Christ, there is no instance in the Bible where an individual is referred to as the elect. We are only the elect because of being in the Body of Christ and election is for the purpose of God. Israel is also referred to as God's elect and so are the elect angels.

Actually it is Biblically correct to teach that man is free to choose to accept the Word, and thus be saved, or to reject the Word and thus be doomed. God's grace is freely given, as stated in Romans and Ephesians, as well as many other places, and freely received. So, either God is deceiving us by telling us that anyone and everyone without distinction can be saved by His grace, or He is telling us the truth. I choose to believe the latter rather than what man has done by twisting God's Word to suit a particular dogma.

[Destro]

Second, this Arminian scheme for the salvation of infants denies the Biblical doctrine of the sinfulness of the whole human race, including infants.

Sadly, the Calvinist's seem to have inherited the false Catholic doctrine of original sin.

To the Orthodox Christian original sin only applies to Adam and Eve. Since they were thrown out of paradise their offspring live with that consequence but they do not inherit that sin.

Only a psychopathic God would punish a child for the sin of the parent.