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To: Pyro7480; Tantumergo; NYer; kosta50; Stubborn; sitetest; MarMema
"Today the Conception of St. Anne is in the Greek Church one of the minor feasts of the year. The lesson in Matins contains allusions to the apocryphal "Proto-evangelium" of St. James, which dates from the second half of the second century (see SAINT ANNE). To the Greek Orthodox of our days, however, the feast means very little; they continue to call it "Conception of St. Anne", indicating unintentionally, perhaps, the active conception which was certainly not immaculate. In the Menaea of 9 December this feast holds only the second place, the first canon being sung in commemoration of the dedication of the Church of the Resurrection at Constantinople." This is absolutely untrue and frankly I am surprised that the authors of the article would print such a falsehood. Today is called the "Forefeast of the Conception of the Most Holy Theotokos by St. Anna" and tomorrow, December 9th is the actual feast day. Both days are major feast days and come first in the Menaion, not second. This type of provocative "scholarship", followed by the medieval, Western scholasticism of the rest of the article only creates division between the Church in the East and the Church in the West. Lest anyone believe on account of this article that the Orthodox Church does not hold virtually the same beliefs as the Roman Church on this matterr, below is an icon of St. Anna with the Theotokos. Note the three "stars" on the shoulders and forehead of the Theotokos. These signify her perpetual virginity and sinlessness. As I have written on another thread, the "dogma" of the Immaculate Conception is an innovation of the Western Church, indeed only of the Latin Rite of the Western Church and only 150 years old. Its roots are in the scholasticism of the middle ages and an understanding of the Augustinian construct of "original sin" unknown in the Church in the East.

11 posted on 12/08/2004 2:43:17 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: Kolokotronis
As I have written on another thread, the "dogma" of the Immaculate Conception is an innovation of the Western Church, indeed only of the Latin Rite of the Western Church and only 150 years old. Its roots are in the scholasticism of the middle ages and an understanding of the Augustinian construct of "original sin" unknown in the Church in the East.

The dogma is only 150 years old, but the belief is much older than that. Duns Scotus resolved the debate over Mary's sinlessness in the Latin church in medieval times. Is the thread that you mentioned the one I started with the answer from the Eastern-rite Catholic, where you said his thinking was very Orthodox?

12 posted on 12/08/2004 2:49:42 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Kolokotronis; sandyeggo; american colleen; saradippity
Thank you for the beautiful icon of St. Ann with the Theotokis! St. Ann is the patron saint of my parish.

Perhaps the following will shed some light on why the Catholic Church chose December 8 to celebrate the Immaculate Conception.

"St. Proclus (446 A.D.), Patriarch of Constantinople, wrote, "Mary is the heavenly orb of a new creation, in whom the Sun of justice, ever shining, has vanished from her soul all the night of sin." St. John Damascene spoke of Mary as "preserved without stain." Although agreeing that Mary was sinless in her behavior, the Church Fathers were divided on the question of her inheritance of original sin. Even the great Thomas Aquinas (1274 A.D.) could not resolve the issue; it remained for John Duns Scotus (1308 A.D.) to propose a "preservative redemption" rather than a "restorative redemption" for Mary. The Church took the decisive step on December 8, 1854, when Peter's successor, the venerable Pope Pius IX, infallibly defined the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. It was by this title that, four years later, Mary identified herself to St. Bernadette at Lourdes. And, in 1954, the first Marian Year was occasioned by the 100th anniversary of the proclamation of this beautiful truth."

FULL TEXT

14 posted on 12/08/2004 7:28:47 PM PST by NYer ("Blessed be He who by His love has given life to all." - final prayer of St. Charbel)
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