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Cardinal Ratzinger Discovers America
The Remnant Newspaper ^ | December 15 | John Rao

Posted on 12/12/2004 8:54:32 AM PST by Land of the Irish

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To: sitetest
Ideal government awaits only in Heaven.

That may be, but some of us believe that Catholic monarchy as exemplified by Saints such as Ferdinand III of Spain, Stephen of Hungary, Henry of Germany, Louis IX of France and the recently beatified Karl of Austria-Hungary was a lot closer to the ideal than modern democracy. As long as we're on Earth, why not defend and strive for what we believe is the best possible?

61 posted on 12/12/2004 5:46:52 PM PST by royalcello
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To: thor76
the sad disapperance of it thanks to American Imperialism in WWI

That's right -- it's all America's fault as always. I can see you guys are great readers of Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, Moveon.org and all the other professional blame America first, America is the source of all the evil in the world crowd -- you follow exactly the same playbook. Wonderful to have such loyal, patriotic people as yourselves -- loyal neither to Pope nor Country.

62 posted on 12/12/2004 5:47:13 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam
All the result of democratic governments legistlating completely outside the principles of natural law. Or do you believe Sweden is a Catholic monarchy? LOL

Radical egalitarianism has acted to degrade the foundations of society in Europe faster than it has here, but it's coming.

63 posted on 12/12/2004 5:47:24 PM PST by kjvail (Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta)
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To: Unam Sanctam
Your glorious Catholic "monarchs" in Belgium and soon in Spain have allowed laws with abortion on demand

When abortion was legalized in Belgium in 1990, King Baudouin, a devout Catholic, temporarily abdicated rather than sign his name to the law. If he had been an "unconstitutional" monarch with real power, abortion would still be illegal in Belgium.

64 posted on 12/12/2004 5:49:28 PM PST by royalcello
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To: royalcello

Mass immigration of Muslims to Europe and the US has been encouraged and consciously engineered to dilute Western Christian civilisation, and to furthen hasten the destruction of what Christian elements still exist in that civilisation.

It seem as if many have forgotten both the lessons of history, and of the reality of Islam itself. Forbidding/restricting Muslim immigration is not an issue of racism. Rather it is one of religious and cultural survival.

Long ago anciemt civilizations leaned the very simple concept that it is foolish to willingly allow a sworn enemy within one's own city gates. How quickly we forget......


65 posted on 12/12/2004 5:51:01 PM PST by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux! St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: thor76

Thank you for your comments. It is Catholics like you who make me want to join the Church. (I'm not quite there yet, but the local trads are working on me!)


66 posted on 12/12/2004 5:51:16 PM PST by royalcello
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To: royalcello

Democracy has made much of the world better, both in terms of economic freedoms and human rights. Democracy has spread all across Europe. With the tenacity of the US cold warriors, democracy has spread to the former Communist bloc. Democracy is spreading in Africa, South America, East and South Asia. It is precisely those areas of the world where it has not taken root, i.e, the Moslem world and China, that are the most disturbing or potentially disturbing to the peace of the world. And having an authoritarian government is no assurance that evils like abortion or homosexual marriage will not be enacted into law.


67 posted on 12/12/2004 5:51:26 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: royalcello

My biggest concern for the freedom of the Church are the sorts of restrictions on free speech that are now common in Europe and Canada. Our constitution and constitutional jurisprudence has a very strong tradition supporting freedom of speech, at least until there is a clear and present danger. In this way, I do believe our system is better than the European. If the courts stick to this tradition, then the Church will be protected. If the courts give in to the left wing fad for speech codes and criminalizing un-PC thought crimes, then I see a real time of persecution.


68 posted on 12/12/2004 5:54:27 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: royalcello

Dear royalcello,

Or Catholic monarchs like Henry VIII (remember that it is as a Catholic that he had a mistress he wished to make his second wife)? Here, we have a Catholic king who led to the heresy, over time, of an entire country.

Or perhaps Edward II? Or Louis XIV?

I'm not a monarchy afficionado as you are. I'm sure that you can name at least three good Catholic monarchs for every bad one I can name. But I'm sure there are at least as many bad as good. Certainly, there are more bad Catholic monarchs then there are canonized ones.

I'm not against monarchy, per se. Nor am I terribly enamored with democracy, or even republicanism.

I am against getting rid of monarchy where it currently exists, except for the most extreme reasons, and I do think that monarchs ought to be more than figureheads.

But neither do I think the case is well-made that monarchy is substantially preferable to constitutional republicanism, nor do I thing that the case is made at all that countries with long histories of republican government (even bad republican government) can, or should move to monarchy.


sitetest


69 posted on 12/12/2004 5:54:59 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Land of the Irish

Europe sucks. End of story...


70 posted on 12/12/2004 5:55:59 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: Unam Sanctam; thor76
I can see you guys are great readers of Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, Moveon.org

Not exactly. Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, and Charles Coulombe would be more like it.

Please open your eyes and come to terms with the fact that the world of political theory is a lot bigger than the Democratic vs. Republican charade. Any point of view which dissents from American neoconservatism is not necessarily leftist.

71 posted on 12/12/2004 5:56:34 PM PST by royalcello
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To: Great Prophet Zarquon
The colonial Baptists had it right. There is NO king but Jesus!!!

Monarchists belong in this country as much as Islamists do. At least the Monarchists don't blow up buildings, yet...

72 posted on 12/12/2004 5:57:49 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: kjvail

As a theoretical ideal, a confessional state in which the state truly did not interfere with the doctrine of the faith and in which the rights of individuals not to be coerced on matters of conscience would be best. Such a thing is not practical under modern conditions, given the left-wing currents of thought widespread in society, I would not trust any government to leave the Church alone. In modern conditions, I think a regime of true religious freedom is best.


73 posted on 12/12/2004 5:59:26 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: royalcello
Hurry up and become Catholic. We could use some real converts for a change.

Keep up the good work.

74 posted on 12/12/2004 6:01:05 PM PST by pascendi (Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem)
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To: sinkspur; royalcello
OK, then home come the Portuguese, Spanish, and French, both under monarchy and Republican rule, make "subjects/citizens" out of those who they conquered? As a matter of fact, the clergy encouraged intermarriage with those "third world" Indians and Asians that you so despise royalcello.

Learn your history. The colonial governments of Spain, Portugal and France actually granted legal rights to those they conquered, encouraged assimilation and had no problem with intermarriage. It was the English (and their descendants) who pushed anti-miscegenation laws in the New World, whether in America, Asia, or Africa.

75 posted on 12/12/2004 6:02:27 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: Unam Sanctam

"Democracy has made much of the world better, both in terms of economic freedoms and human rights."

It is precisely because of the forced imposition of so called "democracy" upon formerly Christian, monarchial Europe that we have had nothing but war and blood bath across the globe over the last century.
In regard to Africa, one would have to be living in an ivory tower to say that the "freed" colonies have ecomomic freedom and human rights. they have not known peace in nearly 50 years, due to so called "democracy"

Or shall we talk about that great bastion of democracy, with all of its blooming flowers of peace, justice, prosperity, and human rights......in South and Central America????????? With great help (overt and covert)their peoples were "freed" from the tyranny of monarchies, and repeatedly, brutally subjected to "democratice" leaders,. imposed by the US......complete with torture chambers for those who dissented from the great freedoms of "democracy".

Or we could speak of Iraq - where we are suprememly determined to impose "democracy" upon the people of that land - if we have to kill half of them to accomplish it!

How dare they have the effrontery to resist? Shame upon them for being so bold as to not accept our US style "democracy"........imposed with all the gentility of strappado!!!!!


76 posted on 12/12/2004 6:03:06 PM PST by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux! St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: royalcello

The current Belgian king did not follow pious Baudoin's good example in the most recent laws that were controversial as far as Catholic doctrine go, I understand. I think it was about euthanasia (on which Belgium has one of the most extreme positions), or same sex marriage.


77 posted on 12/12/2004 6:03:57 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: thor76
The only place I would like to see a monarch is in pictures at a museaum.

To be a true American is to oppose monarchy and tyranny.

78 posted on 12/12/2004 6:05:54 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: sitetest
Henry VIII is certainly an embarrassment to advocates of Christian monarchy. But if the bad monarchs of history constitute an argument against monarchy, than the bad democratically elected leaders of history constitute an argument against democracy. Actually, from your refreshingly moderate comments I think you understand this.

Louis XIV, I would say, was mixed rather than thoroughly bad. Certainly he was selfish & conceited and waged unnecessary wars. But he also was a great patron of the arts and did a lot for French culture and prestige. As a musician, this area is important to me. And would France be as popular a tourist destination today without Versailles?

I am against getting rid of monarchy where it currently exists, except for the most extreme reasons, and I do think that monarchs ought to be more than figureheads.

I'm glad to hear it! I will admit that I can come across as a bit zealous and fanatical regarding monarchy since it resonates so deeply with me in ways that are sometimes difficult to explain. But I can also applaud reasoned and sensible sentiments such as yours.

nor do I think...that countries with long histories of republican government...can, or should move to monarchy.

Perhaps surprisingly, I agree! But the only European countries to which this really applies are Switzerland, San Marino, and Iceland. The others, especially those for which there are still legitimate claimants to the thrones, ought to be monarchies.

79 posted on 12/12/2004 6:07:40 PM PST by royalcello
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To: royalcello
Not exactly. Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, and Charles Coulombe would be more like it.

Add to that list virtually every pope upto Pius XII - Leo XII and Pius X were particularly strong monarchists, St. Thomas Aquinas, Plato, Aristotle, Hilaire Belloc, Christopher Dawson, JRR Tolkien... the list is endless - and all but the early pagan philsophers, devoutly Catholic. I can see you guys are great readers of Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, Moveon.org

Leftism is rabidly anti-monarchial, it is the left in every European country, Australia and Canada that is trying to abolish the remaining monarchies. Monarchism is the essence of conservatism - although like Kuehnelt-Leddihn I prefer "man of the right" to conservative. It is only conservatism in America that is fundamentally opposed to monarchy, because it has it roots in Whiggery. Conservatives in nearly every other country in the world are monarchists.

80 posted on 12/12/2004 6:09:49 PM PST by kjvail (Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta)
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