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To: NYer
Perhaps you underestimate the power of Christ's mother who draws believers towards her Son. That IS her mission. She is not a goddess. Rather, she is the mother of God Incarnate, blessed by His name! Our mother, because her Son entrusted her to you and me.

Fine, if you have that sort of thing in your charter, The UMC only recognizes Mary for what she is,the Mother of Jesus, and not a Holy icon to worship. The Methodists do not worship Icons.(which is why I do not belong to the Catholic Church)

The Mexicans will eventually find that their church will no longer be called UMC, (perhaps another offshoot of which there are many independent offshoot churches) but this matter will take some time to be solved. They are very slow to do these sorts of things and the organization is very decentralized.

I don't mean to make light of your post, but the fact is, that this violates the few things that separate the UMC from the Catholic Church and I do not blame the members for bugging out.

I would as well. I don't worship Icons either. Don't plan to start for any reason.

22 posted on 12/12/2004 4:44:28 PM PST by Cold Heat (What are fears but voices awry?Whispering harm where harm is not and deluding the unwary. Wordsworth)
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To: Cold Heat; sartorius
Fine, if you have that sort of thing in your charter, The UMC only recognizes Mary for what she is,the Mother of Jesus, and not a Holy icon to worship. The Methodists do not worship Icons.(which is why I do not belong to the Catholic Church)

The Catholic Church does not operate under a 'charter'. It was commissioned by Christ, Himself.

Mary is not an icon. She is the mother of God ... would you disagree with this?

All devotions to Mary and the saints ultimately glorify their Creator, who made them what they are.  Could we possibly praise the Mona Lisa without praising Leonardo DaVinci?  That masterpiece certainly did not paint itself!  Even so, Mary is God's great masterpiece, and all praise given to her is praise of Her Maker.

Biblical Basis

When Elizabeth praises Mary, saying "Blessed art thou amongst women", Mary immediately replies "My soul doth magnify the Lord..." (Luke 1:42; 46).  All the devotion which we offer her redounds to God's praise and glory.

An inscription at the Church of the Annunciation in Nazareth, dating back to 200 A.D., says "Hail Mary!".  This is very early evidence of prayer to Mary.

The Sub Tuum Praesidium is another early prayer to her:

We fly to your patronage, O holy Mother of God.
Despise not our petitions in our necessities,
But deliver us from all dangers,
O ever-glorious and Blessed Virgin! (circa 300 A.D.)
The Hail Mary also originated early on, since most of it comes from the Bible.  This later became one of the prayers of the Rosary, along with the Our Father, Glory be and Apostle's Creed, all of Biblical or early Christian origin.

So Marian devotions clearly trace back to the early Church.

23 posted on 12/12/2004 4:52:49 PM PST by NYer ("Blessed be He who by His love has given life to all." - final prayer of St. Charbel)
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To: Cold Heat; NYer; Agrarian

"The UMC only recognizes Mary for what she is,the Mother of Jesus, and not a Holy icon to worship. The Methodists do not worship Icons.(which is why I do not belong to the Catholic Church)"

Where in heaven's name did you get the idea that Romans "worship" icons? The 7th Ecumenical Council, held at Nicea in 787 held as follows:

"We define that the holy icons, whether in color, mosaic, or some other material, should be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on the sacred vessels and liturgical vestments, on the walls, furnishings, and in houses and along the roads, namely the icons of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, that of our Lady the Theotokos, those of the venerable angels and those of all saintly people. Whenever these representations are contemplated, they will cause those who look at them to commemorate and love their prototype. We define also that they should be kissed and that they are an object of veneration and honor (timitiki proskynisis), but not of real worship (latreia), which is reserved for Him Who is the subject of our faith and is proper for the divine nature."

787; a bit before the Methodist Church showed up. As a matter of fact, Iconoclasm, which is to say the rejection and destruction of icons is a grave heresy.


24 posted on 12/12/2004 4:56:27 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: Cold Heat

Dear Cold Heat,

"I don't worship Icons either."

That's great! As a Catholic, neither do I.

But I do venerate the saints, even when depicted in icons, and ask them to pray for me.

Worship, however, is reserved to God alone.


sitetest


25 posted on 12/12/2004 4:57:49 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Cold Heat
The Methodists do not worship Icons.

Neither do Catholics.

31 posted on 12/12/2004 5:39:01 PM PST by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: Cold Heat
If somebody told you Catholics worship Mary, or icons for that matter, you need to check your sources.

That is a common canard raised against Catholics, but it is completely and totally untrue. The Catechism and the Canons of the Church are very straightforward about this - worship belongs to God alone. We give the saints honor, and to Mary as the Mother of God special honor is due . . . but never worship.

38 posted on 12/12/2004 6:03:18 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: Cold Heat
###....."worship Icons.(which is why I do not belong to the Catholic Church)"####

Sorry but I have been a Catholic for 72 years and have yet to worship and Icon. Christ Crucified and his Mother live in our hearts. Any other way is not quite Kosher
120 posted on 12/13/2004 5:38:48 PM PST by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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