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To: AskStPhilomena
Was Our Lady of Guadalupe wrong to have brought about the conversion of so many millions of people to the true Faith?

Of course not. I believe this particular one is a legend that got out of hand. I did some research on it, and some catholic scholars as well as one who was in charge of the shrine said that it wasn't true. Of course, the church sidelined the one. There is a book about it written by a catholic scholar and priest that I had on loan. I don't know what became of him.

I do think it is wrong to convert ignorant people using stories taken literally that probably aren't true. There are some serious questions and discrepancies about this particular catholic cult.

I don't know if the following one is really true or not either, but it did happen more recently:

This one has a little more credibility with me, but of course I don't know what really happened at Fatima:

Miracle of the Doves

This one would have involved the old mass, too.

I don't like to be a scoffer, but I am a stickler for the truth as best as I can determine what it is.

I don't know if I should leave that page up much longer. Hardly anybody ever looks at it, and I not much of a promoter of material I post on the net.

9 posted on 12/16/2004 7:02:13 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska; AskStPhilomena; Mershon
some catholic scholars as well as one who was in charge of the shrine said that it wasn't true.

Some 'Catholic' scholars today say a lot of things.

10 posted on 12/16/2004 7:33:01 AM PST by murphE ("I ain't no physicist, but I know what matters." - Popeye)
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To: Aliska
"...I believe this particular one (Our Lady of Guadaloupe) is a legend that got out of hand. I did some research on it, and some catholic scholars as well as one who was in charge of the shrine said that it wasn't true.... I do think it is wrong to convert ignorant people using stories taken literally that probably aren't true."

I'm not exactly what you mean as not being true. I think it is indisputably a supernatural event.

Are you aware that in the eyes of the Virgin imprinted on the tilma are the figures of everybody present when Juan Diego presented the tilma to the Bishop?

These figures can only be seen with the aid of modern scientific equipment, and could certainly not have been produced by hand at that time, or even at this time.

The fact that a simple impression on a cloak could produce hundreds of thousands of conversions speaks volumes for the case of a supernatural event rather than a case of fraud. True conversions are the work of the Holy Ghost, not a passing fancy of a picture.

I'm sure though that there are even Priests who would like to pass it off as fraud in order to damage the faith.

16 posted on 12/16/2004 8:30:34 AM PST by Arguss (Take the narrow road)
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