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Luther's Mass
SSPX Asia ^ | 2/15/75 | Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

Posted on 01/13/2005 7:52:00 AM PST by latae sententiae

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1 posted on 01/13/2005 7:52:02 AM PST by latae sententiae
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To: latae sententiae

Now there is something that is "newsworthy." Written in 1975. Phew!!!

Also, did it ever occur to anyone that there is a distinct difference between the "liturgy" and "the Mass" itself. Perhaps it was modeled on Luther's liturgy, but since there is no apostolic succession, there is no "Mass."

SSPX circles tend to cloud these very important distinctions between the rite or the liturgy and "the Mass."


2 posted on 01/13/2005 8:10:51 AM PST by Mershon
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To: Mershon
Now there is something that is "newsworthy." Written in 1975. Phew!!!

I guess you're right. It predates JP2's pontificate and is therefore meaningless. Mea culpa.
3 posted on 01/13/2005 8:19:54 AM PST by latae sententiae (Last Things first!)
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To: latae sententiae

No. I just thought that Free Republic was for "news" not history, but... I'm not too terribly upset by it. In fact, I think it is a good article, except for the obvious lacking distinctions between "liturgy" and "Mass" that I mentioned and you avoided.


4 posted on 01/13/2005 8:24:48 AM PST by Mershon
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To: latae sententiae

You can't blame the failings of the "divinely inspired priesthood" of the RCC on Martin Luther. If the Catholics are heading over the cliffs with all this modernism, it's their own doings. (But it does kinda makes you wonder about their "inspiration".)


5 posted on 01/13/2005 8:30:27 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: Mershon; latae sententiae

And many tend to think that a Lutheran-based "liturgy" will not alter their beliefs in "the Mass."


6 posted on 01/13/2005 9:34:08 AM PST by sempertrad
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To: HarleyD
The point is that the mechanics of the New Mass are Lutheran. You wouldn't arue with that , would you?

What looks more like a Lutheran service a Tridentine Mass or a Novus Ordo Mass?

I have experience with Methodist liturgy and the resemblance to the Novus Ordo is amazing....the Tridentine...is unlike any of these.

7 posted on 01/13/2005 10:06:29 AM PST by Pio (Thanks to Ecumenism we now stand for Holy Communion.)
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To: Mershon
the obvious lacking distinctions between "liturgy" and "Mass" that I mentioned and you avoided.

Relax, champ. Just took a lunch hour today for a change. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Is it OK to screw around with the "Mass" as log as we leave the "liturgy" alone? Is that what you're saying, or maybe the other way around?
8 posted on 01/13/2005 10:15:35 AM PST by latae sententiae (Last Things first!)
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To: Pio

I've never attended a Lutheran service and to my knowledge, a New Mass so it's difficult for me to compare. I will say that all this modernism in the churches/Church is beginning to make it difficult to distinguish one from another and is the forbearer to ecumenticalism. Personally I think that's a (very) bad thing but IMHO what drives it is corruption of doctrine.


9 posted on 01/13/2005 10:26:55 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: latae sententiae
Archbishop Bernardin of Cincinnati recognized the problem clearly when he declared to the Synod of Bishops in Rome,.."there are no more vocations because the priest has lost his sense of identity,"

Lefebvre appealing to Bernardin. Unreal.

10 posted on 01/13/2005 10:30:01 AM PST by Romulus (Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?)
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To: Romulus
Lefebvre appealing to Bernardin. Unreal.

Kudos for recognizing a problem, which is leaps and bounds beyond what the USCCB does with just about anything of late, which is tantamount to glazing over & touching themselves while they watch some kind of huge spiritual porno. I suspect the Archbishop's reaction to the way Bernadin chose to remedy the situation would have been...less enthusiastic.
11 posted on 01/13/2005 10:37:44 AM PST by latae sententiae (Last Things first!)
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To: Mershon
"Now there is something that is "newsworthy." Written in 1975. Phew!!!"

Fit's in well for you doesn't it. According to your reasoning, age absolutely makes an article irrelevant. Phew!!!
12 posted on 01/13/2005 10:44:05 AM PST by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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To: CouncilofTrent

"Fit's in well for you doesn't it. According to your reasoning, age absolutely makes an article irrelevant. Phew!!!"

What is the reason for the ' in the word fits?

No, according to journalistic standards and "newsworthiness," an article or topic written in 1975 is not "newsworthy."

But then again, with an SSPX adherent worldview, everything stopped around 1959; even if it really wasn't part of Catholic Tradition or tradition.

In any event, perhaps with you, you don't even recognize Vatican I, based upon your moniker.

Let me let you in on something, as one who works with journalists: 1975 isn't news.

Good article though!!!


13 posted on 01/13/2005 10:47:35 AM PST by Mershon
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To: sempertrad

"And many tend to think that a Lutheran-based "liturgy" will not alter their beliefs in "the Mass.""

Oh, but I am not one of them. I recognize the lex orandi est lex credendi moniker well.



14 posted on 01/13/2005 10:48:49 AM PST by Mershon
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To: Mershon; latae sententiae; CouncilofTrent; sempertrad
It was new to me. Thanks for posting latae.
15 posted on 01/13/2005 10:52:58 AM PST by murphE ("I ain't no physicist, but I know what matters." - Popeye)
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To: Mershon

the apostrophe was me typing too fast. And I do accept Vatican I. And how can you say that the SSPX worldview claims that everything stopped in 1959, when they use the 1962 missal? hmmmm..... fallacious statement?


16 posted on 01/13/2005 10:56:08 AM PST by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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To: CouncilofTrent

Great article, huh? Got any from 1959? Or how about 1962?


17 posted on 01/13/2005 11:24:18 AM PST by Mershon
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To: Pio
I have experience with Methodist liturgy and the resemblance to the Novus Ordo is amazing

Keep in mind that the Anglicans and some other Protestant denominations revised their liturgies after 1970 to make them more like the "Novus Ordo," so if your experience is much after 1970, the "resemblance" may not be coincidental, but may be a deliberate imitation on the part of the Protestant group. For example, the Anglican "Rite II" (promulgated in 1979) is basically the NO Mass with some Protestant tweaking done on it.

18 posted on 01/13/2005 11:26:26 AM PST by Campion
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To: Mershon
There is no need for you to be nasty. I simply pointed out a discrepancy with your statement(laced with a little vitriol, i know).
19 posted on 01/13/2005 11:57:20 AM PST by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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To: Campion
Anglican "Rite II" (promulgated in 1979) is basically the NO Mass with some Protestant tweaking done on it.

Like what?
20 posted on 01/13/2005 11:57:29 AM PST by latae sententiae (Last Things first!)
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