Posted on 02/15/2005 4:02:38 PM PST by NYer
VATICAN CITY, FEB. 14, 2005 (Zenit.org).- The Fatima secret has been totally revealed by the Vatican, and Russia has already been consecrated as Mary requested, confirmed Sister Maria Lucia of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart.
The witness of the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin of Fatima made this statement to the then secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, on Nov. 17, 2001, contradicting those who say that the Church still has secrets about the Marian apparition.
The content of the interview held between the Vatican representative and Sister Lucia in the convent of Coimbra, Portugal, where she resided, was made public by the Vatican press office on Dec. 20, 2001.
The text of the document states: "In recent months, especially following the sad events of the September 11 terrorist attacks, articles appeared in newspapers alleging new revelations by Sister Lucia, announcements of letters of warning to the Pope, and apocalyptic reinterpretations of the Fatima message."
"Moreover, emphasis was placed on the suspicion that the Holy See had not published the entire text of the third part of the secret, and some 'Fatimist' movements have repeated the accusation that the Holy Father has yet to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary," the document continues.
As a result, the Vatican note clarifies, it was considered necessary that Archbishop Bertone go personally "to clarify and obtain direct information from the visionary."
The meeting was held in the presence of Father Luis Kondor, vice postulator of the cause of Blessed Francisco and Jacinta (the other Fatima visionaries), and of the prioress of St. Teresa's Carmelite Convent.
The conversation took place on the afternoon of that Nov. 17 and lasted more than two hours. Sister Lucia, then 94, "was in great form -- lucid and vivacious," the Vatican envoy said.
The meeting addressed the question of the third part of the secret of Fatima. The Portuguese religious said that she had read "carefully and meditated on the fascicle published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and confirms everything that is written," the Vatican statement noted.
When the archbishop explained that there are doubts that part of the secret remains unknown, Sister Lucia replied: "Everything has been published; there are no more secrets."
"If I had received new revelations, I would not have communicated them to anyone, but I would have told them directly to the Holy Father," the religious added.
There was then talk about the statements of Nicholas Gruner, a Canadian priest suspended "a divinis," who is collecting signatures insisting that the Pope finally consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and alleging that this has never been done.
Sister Lucia told the archbishop: "The Carmel community has rejected the forms for the collection of signatures. I have already said that the consecration requested by Our Lady was done in 1984, and it has been accepted in heaven."
Lastly, the conversation turned to Sister Lucia's personal life. Some press articles suggested that her concern robbed her of sleep and that she was praying night and day.
The religious answered: "It's not true. How would I be able to pray during the day if I did not sleep at night? How many things they attribute to me! How many things they make me do! They should read my book; the advice and appeals that correspond to Our Lady's wishes are there. Prayer and penance, with great faith in God's power, will save the world."
Indeed. Personally, I prefer to believe the Fatima Crusader viewpoints regarding the consecration of Russia issue and the 3rd Secret "publication."
I find it most interesting that certain persons here have studiously avoided the other threads on the passing of Sr. Lucia - while posting elswhere on FR. These persons did not even have the Christian charity to post their sorrow at her passing - or say that they would pray for her, as is the duty of a good Catholic.
Yet, now they have surfaced, seemingly to ridicule yourself, and any other poster who a) is a traditionalist, and/or b) holds an opinion about the messages of Fatima which is contrary to the "company line".
Funny - these very same persons will repeatedly maintain that the messages of Fatima (or any apparitions) are not part of revelation, nor the Deposit of Faith. They will also state that the contents of those apparitions which are approved as being "worthy of belief", are not binding upon the faithful.
I have never known of a Marian apparition whose message and purpose became a virtual "policy statement" from the Vatican. According to our previously absent posters, such interpretations were to be considered "private musings".
Now it would seem that if you dare to muse, you must do it in the approved manner, and always reach the same, approved PC conclusion.
But, I will state my own "musing": the messages of Fatima (and specifically the Third Secret)are one and the same with the messages of Akita. On this we have the word of the Blessed Virgin herself..........as well as teh head of the CDF, Cardinal Ratzinger. That is a big clue.
Oh, I've noticed . Zenit was very slolw to report Sister Lucia's death but has wasted no time dredging up this half-bake story from 2001 that the third secret has been fully revealed.
In military maneuvers, if one wishes to make an all out assault, one bides one's time, and gets in position - from multiple vantage points. And then fire all the guns at once. This is an old game.......but it works, as the other side has a difficult time fighting back when being bombarded from all sides.
The best "seiges" are the ones which are sustained, well planned, and not started in haste.
Not really.
One has to wonder why Zenit and the Vatican have spent as much or more time nervously telling us the entire third secret has been revealed and that Russia was really consecrated (yet everyone just happened to miss it) than they have mourning Sister Lucia.
I read the what we've been told is the third secret. What I don't understand is why on God's earth would what they are telling us is the "third secret" be kept under wraps for so long?
IOW, in order for Rome to keep the third from being revealed for so long it must have been something so controversal or shocking that it just couldn't be released (in their view). There was nothing I read in their version of the "third secret" that would cause such a reaction. There is nothing scandalous, controversial or horrifying in it. It's for the most part innocuous.
After all according to our Church, our Lady was present at Fatima. She told the Lucia that it was to be released in 1960, Rome refused.
Would someone please point out to me what it is in the "third secret" presented to us that would cause it to be kept hidden for decades?
It just doesn't make any sense at all.
Your post poses a most intelligent question: why keep the secret hidden, when the released text in 2000 was very tame & innocous.
At the time it was released I recall speaking to those of my mother's and even gradnmother's generation, who would surely have remembered the build up of anticipation prior to 1960. Their reaction was sort of:..."so that's it? Hardly seemed worth hiding it for 40 years". This was the reaction of persons who were both Catholic & non- Catholic.
One clue as to the true nature, and total content of the real third secret is that Fatima was essentially an "either/or proposition". Due to the action ( or should I say inaction) of Pope John XXII, we are living with the consequences of "or". For 45 years.
Propoganda? Her prophecy doesn't match yours, so that makes it propoganda? Puhlease! This is the Season of Lent. Have some respect, if nothing else.
Lol!
Did you catch Fr. Gruner on Coast To Coast AM Live, last night, as he bashed the Catholic Church, the pope and Cardinal Ratzinger? No mention by George Noory that Fr. Gruner may no longer celebrate mass.
If we take the Vatican line in this,and the "consecration" was done, doesn't it seem that JPII was suckered into believing Fatima?
Since the fruits from the "consecration" are not there, Fatima must have been a sham. It could never have been Our Lady. Otherwise, she is a liar.
So JPII was wrong about the beatifications.
JPII was also wrong about the Blessed Mother saving him on May 13th in 1981.
Lucia was suckered for virtually her whole life. As were the Popes from 1917 onwards.
It seems JPII and Lucia were both "crazy" Fatimists.
That's IF you buy the Vatican line.
Reason and common sense are not factors in this equation.
It's "the dream", see? When reality intrudes, we hold onto "the dream" and deny reality.
That's how strong this is.
Like, "We are in the Springtime of VaticanII?"
Nice attempt to twist my words. You know very well to what I was referring.
You want respect? Rome owes respect to the wishes of the Blessed Mother and her primary witness. You are on the wrong side of this battle.
"The excommunications are invalid" would be another.
"The Novus Ordo Church will collapse any day and SSPX will rule supreme" would be yet another.
See, I can play your silly game too.
I caught the beginning of it. Gruner's faculties are slipping in more ways than one ...
Cardinal Oddi - Elvis sighter
"It [the Third Secret] has nothing to do with Gorbachev. The Blessed Virgin was alerting us against apostasy in the Church." Il Sabato 03-17-1990
Cardinal Ciappi - dreamer, denier of reality and personal theologian to JPII
"In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top." letter to Professor Baumgartner in Salzburg
Not quite.
I didn't fabricate, "We are in the Springtime of Vatican II" JPII has said it.
You had to fabricate, "The Novus Ordo Church will collapse any day and SSPX will rule supreme"
The excommunications being invalid has more basis in reality than JPII's dreamy statement.
And if you want, I can find numerous statements of JPII that are beyond ridiculous.
I've asked intelligent questions (and dumb ones) here, but this isn't an overly intelligent one. In fact, any jackass with just a bit of common sense would would be forced to ask the same. Maybe if I rephrase it simply, someone can give a simple answer.
What is it that is contained in the supposed official version of the third secret that would cause 3 popes over decades to take such great pains to keep the text hidden?
I just don't get it.
I don't believe in Elvis, or flying saucers. Although I know that Mary is the living Mother of God, I don't believe in most Marian "apparitions" for that matter. I believe in Fatima because it's been documented by tens of thousands of people and it's sanctioned by our Church. It's not a matter of conspiracy theories, I don't even know who Father Gruner is.
It's just basic logic to wonder why we should believe what they are telling us when it doesn't seem to make any sense.
It's the same dynamic with the consecration. We're expected to believe something that can't be resolved by simply using the brains that God gave us.
Nobody remembers any real consecration (which would have been a enormous event in our Church), but never mind that - it happened anyway. We all just somehow missed it.
Logic is lacking. Unless you consider a logical argument to be that if you don't shut up and listen to your churchmen - who of course are above all reproach - you're a bad Catholic in a tinfoil suit.
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