Posted on 02/15/2005 4:02:38 PM PST by NYer
When I was a little kid (in the late 50s), the rumor was that each Pope who saw the third secret fainted dead away with shock.
Apooc. 14,13
"In those days, I heard a voice from Heaven saying:"(and this is why it is NOT the END OF FATIMA OR SR. LUCY's revelations)
" Write; Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth.Yes, says the Spirit,let them rest from their labors , FOR THEIR WORKS FOLLOW THEM'
Our Lady of Fatima pray for us, R.I.P. Sr. Lucy!
I don't care what Williamson says and I don't care what you say.
Obviously. You just want to trumpet your fabrications without challenge. Truth has very little room in your little world. I suppose if you are attacking the SSPX you'll never try to quote a member of the society in context.
I look at actions.
No. You selectively look at actions. The ones you like. The others (kissing the koran, papal masses where the sacred species is treated improperly etc. absolutely ridiculous political statements and social statements coming from the Vatican..) you dip your head into a hole in the ground instead of dealing with.
When you act in a manner which defies the Pope and which subborns his ministry to your own personal judgement as to what constitutes Catholicism, that is triumphalism.
Now THAT is chin music. What about when the Pope acts in a manner with subborns the Church? Or, do you somehow want to invent a new doctrine that prevents this?
The last time I checked Ecumenism and its bitter fruits were not part of the Deposit of Faith.
Unless I have completely misread 2-3 years worth of posts on this forum, then my original comment stands and I will restate it.
I don't care what you've read. I don't care what other posters have said. I look at actions and you are stating untruths. Period.
It is the thesis of a significant number of posters here (including you) that true Catholicism is found only, within the confines of SSPX.
Prove it. Show me where I've said that Catholicism is found "only" within the SSPX. You won't. You can't. Game, Set, Match. You lie.
Further, this will become clear to all when the Church united to the Pope further deteriorates in membership and practice to the point where only SSPX is left standing as the bastion of the true faith.
As I stated and you completely ignored, that is not the opinion of the SSPX that is the opinion of Paul VI, and Ratzinger among plenty of others not affiliated with the SSPX.
Don't jerk me around with all this "you're making it up" garbage.
I'm not jerking you around. I'm stating a fact.
I've read plenty of Williamson's opinions, by the way. Are you on board with him when he says the Japanese were not the ones behind Pearl Harbor and 9/11 was not the work of al-Qaeda? According to your bishop, the government knows who did these things but won't tell us.
You didn't read him correctly. He said that the Japanese did attack Pearl Harbor but they were provoked into it. It didn't happen in a vacuum. This is not unreasonable with the blockade of Japan prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. He also stated that 9/11 was the work of evil Arabs (al-Queada) who are in contention for domination with the evil Western powers who want to ultimately secularize every government in the World with Israel being the model in the Middle East. Just watch the news. Our media loves to paint white hats and black hats when in reality it is a series of black hats fighting each other and ultimately Christ. But you missed the main reason that Williamson stated, that it is the sinfulness of Man which has made God permit these wars and tragedies to happen. "This problem of the United States is politically insoluble, because it is a religious problem! The United States is caught between these two scourges of God, because it has turned away from God. God chastises those whom He loves (Heb. XII, 6), so that if God were not now chastising the United States, it would be the proof not that He loved, but that He did not love the United States! Let us be grateful that God is using Arab and Jew to chastise us! AND LET US THEREFORE, WITH NO THOUGHT OF HATING ARAB OR JEW, because they are NOT the real problem, TURN TO THE REAL PROBLEM, WHICH IS THE SINS BY WHICH WE OFFEND GOD. Let us take the Ten Commandments in reverse order, culminating in the first." and as I'm sure you know Bishop Williamson proceeds to remind us that the filthy media and our culture poisoning our youth and the bloody abortions procured cannot be pleasing to God.
Just as a public service for the lurkers here, so we know exactly how tight that tin-foil is wrapped around your noggin.
I see you don't have what it takes to actually get into the debate on facts. I'll take you on regarding Williamson any day of the week. But, I know how it goes, the nutjobs who think The U.S. Constitution and fashion of the day regarding political correctness is part of the Deposit of Faith will get more and more shrill the more Williamson's Catholicity and accuracy show forth and you'll attempt to have the thread pulled.
And as we now in 2002 know with certainty that our governments and media told us far from the complete truth in 1941 as to who was truly responsible for the attack on Pearl Harbor, so we will eventually know that those truly responsible for the attack on the Twin Towers were certainly not those primarily held up as being responsible by our governments and media.
Again:
As the Depression of the 1930's necessitated WWII, triggered for the US by the supposed treachery of the Japanese at Pearl Harbor, so we see all the conditions created for another much worse Depression in the US, with the supposed treachery of Arabs last year against the Twin Towers in New York
And HERE is the link to the entire letter, which contains, in wonderful detail Bishop Williamson's world view.
It includes insights on the dollar, the world markets, Federal Banks, the two World Wars, international terrorism, Judaism and Free Masonry.
Seems it's all a conspiracy in order to create a diversion from another depression. The Arabs and Japanese are just the fall guys.
You happy to sign on the dotted line under all that? Leave out the spin and condescending remarks about my reading comprehension. A yes or no will suffice.
Prove it. Show me where I've said that Catholicism is found "only" within the SSPX. You won't. You can't. Game, Set, Match. You lie.
Careful. I said you believe that true Catholicism is found only within the SSPX. Not "Catholicism". If you believe that true Catholicism is found outside SSPX, tell me where.
Claim victory to your hearts content. I'm not going anywhere.
........and your point is.......?????
I just read the entire text of BP Williamson's remarks, and fail to see any problem...........except that they are absolutely devoid of political correctness, necessitated by current pop-culture, and the false "spirit of Vaticn II".
Any one who has studied history of economics (as I have) and can read the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and conprehend historicla nad curretn US (and global) economic trends will see that Williamson is correct in his assessment of the current US economic quandry.
AS to his implied assertion that WWII was "engineered".....that is not a difficult conclusion to reach. Not only through historical analysis, but throu the spiritual: that Satan control the hearts of ungodly men who would profit over war in political and/or econimic means.
Arabs & Japanese as "fall guys". Yes - easily. AS to the Arabs, we want control over the region for its oil, so we have actively controlled the local govts. there, as well as worked to de-stabilize any regime which could pose a threat. Yet at the same time......seemingly at cross purposes, we have the establishment of "radical Islamic elements", which did not spontaneously generate themselves.But that is a whole other issue.
Part of the concept of the dialect can be seen in the work of western intelligence operations, which instigate opposing forces against each other. Seemingly at varying purposes. Yet, the ultimnate goal is often something not readily visable or perceivable
Bascily what Williamson is saying is to say that the West - and the US in PArticular - is not some doe-eyed innocent child being beaten up by bullies. He is observing and pointing at moral corruption - regarding economics, politics, the dollar, terrorism - and saying that the US is guilty of immorality.
But this in and of itself is off topic - and has little to do with the point of this thread.
Good. I'm glad to hear it.
We've accomplished something for the readers of this thread.
Not really a surprise, given your recent thread about the Bayside "apparitions" and their extravagant claims about a papal imposter who was a "double" for Paul VI.
Just to be clear then, for the record:
thor76 holds to the opinion of Bishop Williamson that the US government has covered up the identities of those truly responsible for Pearl Harbor and 9/11 and is keeping us in the dark.
Thanks.
I'll have to post a few times as time permits. That is a brilliant article by bishop Williamson by the way.
But first things first: You wrote: "Here are Williamson's exact words:
And as we now in 2002 know with certainty that our governments and media told us far from the complete truth in 1941 as to who was truly responsible for the attack on Pearl Harbor..."
This is from the US Navy Historical Center's Website
..."The road to war between Japan and the United States began in the 1930s when differences over China drove the two nations apart. In 1931 Japan conquered Manchuria, which until then had been part of China. In 1937 Japan began a long and ultimately unsuccessful campaign to conquer the rest of China. In 1940, the Japanese government allied their country with Nazi Germany in the Axis Alliance, and, in the following year, occupied all of Indochina.
The United States, which had important political and economic interests in East Asia, was alarmed by these Japanese moves. THE U.S. INCREASED MILITARY AND FINANCIAL AID TO CHINA, EMBARKED ON A PROGRAM OF STRENGTHENING ITS MILITARY POWER IN THE PACIFIC, AND CUT OFF THE SHIPMENT OF OIL AND OTHER RAW MATERIALS TO JAPAN.
BECAUSE JAPAN WAS POOR IN NATURAL RESOURCES, ITS GOVERNMENT VIEWED THESE STEPS, ESPECIALLY THE EMBARGO ON OIL AS A THREAT TO THE NATION'S SURVIVAL. Japan's leaders responded by resolving to seize the resource-rich territories of Southeast Asia, even though that move would certainly result in war with the United States."
Source: Department of Defense. 50th Anniversary of World War II Commemorative Committee. Pearl Harbor: 50th Anniversary Commemorative Chronicle, "A Grateful Nation Remembers" 1941-1991. Washington: The Committee, 1991.
Here's the Congressional Declaration of War:
December 8, 1941
JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring that a state of war exists between the Imperial Government of Japan and the Government and the people of the United States and making provisions to prosecute the same.
Whereas the Imperial GOVERNMENT OF JAPAN HAS COMMITTED UNPROVOKED ACTS OF WAR AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Imperial Government of Japan which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Imperial Government of Japan; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.
Approved, December 8, 1941, 4:10 p.m. E.S.T.
Anyone can plainly see the political selling points for Pearl Harbor were more hype than fact. This is the same as President Bush talking about the "hijacking of Islam" pure garbage. Nobody hijacked Islam. The militant are right in line with how they have been for 1200 years.
Once again - this has nothing to do with the tpic of this thread........and you would appear to be disrupting it.
My "recent thread about the Bayside apparitions" in fact had nothing to do with the apparitions themselves, it merely sited an article on a Bayside website which contained quotes from prominant church men regarding the permanent diaconate. I also believe that i made it quite clear that I am rather neutral on the subject of Bayside itself. And I have opinion one way or the other on any allegations of there having been a double for Paul VI.
One can take a quote from any source and use it. The point is not the site it was taken from, but rather the content of the quote itself.
As to WWI, I think we can all recite the names of those who are responsible for it, and the US involvement in both the Pacific and European theaters of operation. Anybody with an IQ greater then that of a carrot would know that in war, those who manufacture arms make money. And those in position of power in banking, business, and politics can also profit - by one means or another. That is reality - not fantasy. This is neither the time nor the place to go into this issue.
Regarding 911, I am sure there is much more then meets the eye. But such is NOT germane to the topic of this thread.
It would seem that you are quite skilled at the art of dangling the red herring.
OK, thanks. Now we know.
It is, in fact, a rambling mish-mash of half-truths, half-baked conspiracy theories and utter nonsense interspersed with the occasional moment of lucidity.
The spiel which you posted has absolutely nothing to do with what Williamson is talking about. Not a thing.
He's talking about a government cover-up of the identity of those behind the attack-and those responsible for 9/11.
Who are the true perps?
The Jews and the Masons of course. Just as they were were for WWI and WWII.
Again, we've performed a service for the readers of this thread.
Thanks.
The take home message here folks, to get back to the original point of this thread (in case thor76 is still fretting), is that those who see conspiracy in religious life and in the work of the Pope and the Vatican, see conspiracy everywhere.
Conspiracy lovers can't isolate their need to believe in intrigue, plots and a nefarious unseen world of shadows and bogey men. It infects every area of their psyche and leads to an utterly disordered view of life and religion.
The take home message here is that folks like you will swallow anything New Rome spoon feeds you, e.g. New Mass, New Bible, New Cathechism, Holy Communion in the Paw, Ascension Sunday, etc.
BTW, the SSPX never had anything do with this thread, yet you were the one who first brought the Society up. Where did you expect the thread to go? You got your wish.
Now you accuse others of disrupting this thread? Remove the beam from your own eye.
Actually, anybody who's been following these threads will take home that some people will hang on to any little shred of conspiracy (the date Sr. Lucy actually died, a goofy handwriting comparison from a false-apparition website, the testimony of an integrist priest that he had actually seen the third secret, way back in 1963) to propagate the nonsense that we don't know what we clearly know:
The third secret has been revealed, and Russia has been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
So tell us please, which pope has been shot and killed as prophesized by Our Lady of Fatima? Or did the Blessed Mother make a mistake?
So where and when is that "period of peace" that would follow that so-called "consecration" that supposedly occurred in 1984? Kosovo? Afghanistan? Iraq? Lebanon? Indonesia? Columbia? Phillipines, India/Pakistan?
It's been 20+ years, sink. Where's the peace?
If Russia has converted, why doe she refuse to let that same pope, who consecrated her to the Sacred Heart of Mary, set foot on her soil?
Name all the Catholic bishops who were union with the pope during this "consecration".
Ask the radical Muslims. I don't think they were in on this deal.
If Russia has converted, why doe she refuse to let that same pope, who consecrated her to the Sacred Heart of Mary, set foot on her soil?
The Russian Orthodox Church has grown astronomically.
God's ways are not linear. Perhaps He is working through those already on the ground in Russia. Makes sense to me.
"a goofy handwriting comparison"
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The Blessed Mother apparently did; but then again, you know better, don't you?
Well, the ball's in her court, then.
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