Posted on 02/26/2005 6:54:58 AM PST by dangus
The news media are in an uproar over the possibility that the Pope will be infirmed. They are already loudly and obnoxiously calling for his resignation and responding in shock when he teaches that peraps through his suffering, the world can learn the redemptive power of suffering. How can the church persist through an infirmed Pope? What if he is completely "incapable" of performing his duties?
His only duty is to be.
Recent reforms, which have never been seen as preventing problems associated with an infirmed Pope, will prevent any major disruption in the church.
The Pope's job is not run around the world, making photo ops. This Pope has done that much, and it is a noble purpose, for he has stirred the faith of the people of the lands he has traveled to, being a witness to them. Even in his illness, however, he can accomplish the mission of being a witness to the faithful. Precisely now, when the Western world is making judgments about when a life becomes worthless, the Pope is slipping into joining the ranks of those who the world would consider a life not worth preserving. May our prayers show the world that such a life is still beloved by God!
This Pope also has written numerous encyclicals. Again, this is not necessary for the function of the Church. The Church is still trying to comprehend the meaning of what John Paul has already taught. His teachings are just now starting to be promulgated in many instances; if it is God's will that we do not receive more and more before we can process what we have received, so be it.
The indispensible jobs of the Pope are to appoint bishops to the various episcopal sees of the world, and to elevate Cardinals for the continuance of succession.
Appointing bishops is no problem, however. Because the bishops are all retired at 75 years old, there are very few aged or infirmed bishops. Should the Pope be inable to appoint new bishops, all that the Vatican needs to do is to revert to what it used to do: Keep the present bishops in office unless they die.
And even then, there isn't such a problem. The Archdioceses have several auxiliary bishops who can take over in case of the archbishop becomes infirmed, and arhcbishops can appoint administrators to temporarily care for any smaller diocese which has lost its bishop to death.
The College of Cardinals is bursting with 120 cardinals these days. In times past, there'd be maybe 18 or 25. And while bishops retire at 75, Cardinals retire at 80. ANd yet the sees which normally are headed by Cardinals have seen their retired archbishop cardinal replaced by a younger one. So it'd be five years before we started seeing sees lack Cardinals, and decades before we started to run short of Cardinals.
If God says we need a witness to proclaim to the world that the infirmed are still beloved by God, praise be the Lord!
I'm not sure, but did you mean "infirmed" in your title?
Owl_Eagle
"You know, I'm going to start thanking
the woman who cleans the restroom in
the building I work in. I'm going to start
thinking of her as a human being"
IMO that has been going in the last year as we get some very ludicrous statements out of the Vatican. Wish there was same way for this Pope as they say to fade away into the sunset because he has done so much for the world. I firmly believe there are those around him right now that are speaking for the Pope and have been anti-American from recent comments. They have their own agenda and not one that would have been the Pope's in his younger days. He lived under Russian control in Poland with little freedom and IMHO he would have been on the forefront of wanting citizens of brutal dictatorships to be free such as in Iraq. Instead we hear the garbage out of people surrounding him "speaking" for him -- don't believe it for a minute that he would have said those things in earlier years.
>> I'm not sure, but did you mean "infirmed" in your title?
<<
Yes, I did. Mod, can you please adjust? Thanks.
The predominantly apostate prelates who surround JPII control and manage his life. They have been putting words in his mouth for a long time - at least ten years......but with increasing daring & frequency in recent times.
Right now they are in an excellant position to "use" him. To make appointments of Bishops & Cardinals, which are against his wishes, and yet make it appear that he wants them. They can make pronouncements in his name.
Thay can even make it appear that he voluntarliy wishes to resign - though we all know that he WILL NOT resign, and wishes to serve unto death, no matter what condition he is in.
A few years agao - in the late 90s - I remember being told that the clergy of the Arch of NY were hovereing in a state of suspended animation. They were waiting for tow things to happen: the death of resignation of Cardinal O'Connor, and the death or resignation of JPII.
Now they got the first wish - and gleefully have embraced Egan as their saviour, as he represents their breed of "priest": haughty, crude, non-believing, and a heavey handed facilitator of "the agenda".
But they still are ideling their engines "in neutral".....waiting for a green light. That green light is the removal of JPII from the Throne of Peter.
That will be the signal to rev their engines into high gear - to complete the liturgical revolution.......to complete the "agenda" of transmogrification of the faith into something totally un-Catholic, and un-Christian. Into a complete state of inversion - in all senses of the word.
JPII - like him or not - is the roadblock in the way of their agenda. He knows it, and is holding out desperately against the inevitable, to give men a last chance to obtain the light and wisdom of the Holy Spirit to see the truth.
Before the demonic disorientation of the mind of man is locked in - closing out the light of God, and the gifts of Knowledge, Wisdom, and Understanding.
Before we are locked into a long and terrible winter.
I hope he lives as long as he wishes and God allows.
People need to see, hear, touch, experience these people who are infirm, halting, incontinent, damaged mentally and physically over and over again. They need to see the very old and the very young who are crippled and ill.
The world has such a premium on youth and beauty as can be seen by the plethora of cosmetic surgeons and cosmetics that anything that deviates from the World's expectation is shunned. It is the World.
The Beatitudes have been replaced by Vegans and No-Smoking Fanatics, PETA and the Greens.
People no longer remember exactly why we are here. The idea of "know, love and serve" is not taught.
All of you are more learned than I.
But, I have to ask if you trust the Holy Spirit enough to to guide the Church. Men are men and will do as they always have: seek power.
I might be too childish, but I have infinite trust.
Thor, I was all ready to pull out my sword and challenge what I thought you were writing. Then something funny happened: Your letter turned an entirely different course than I expected, and I wound up agreeing with you. I do believe you hit the nail on the head!
There is a strain of traditionalists who seem to believe that Pope John Paul II and the authors of Vatican II planned an all-out attack on the Church in Vatican II. But, rather, the revolt against church authority was slightly later, around the time of Humanae Vitae. Progressive bishops had thought Vatican II represented a revolution it did not represent. (In this, they were in agreement with the certain traditionalists.) Humane Vitae triggered all-out rebellion and disobedience.
JP2, a bishop from behind the Iron Curtain was thoroughly unfamiliar with the state of apostasy in the West. Perhaps the apostates allowed his ascension because they believed he would be easily manipulated. The Communists certainly did not expect him to move so forcefully against the Soviets as he did, let alone attack Liberation Theology, the communist fifth-column of the revolution.
But, he trusted far too much of the Great Apostasy was a by-product of misunderstanding. He spent the first fifteen years of his papacy trying to rein in the Western Church's socialist dogmas, and interpret Christian sexuality and anthropology to a modernist society which had no intention of even hearing him out.
He did not use his authoritarian means over Western bishops because he had hoped to reason with them, and because it was quite plain that they, unlike Tridentines, felt no obligation to remain loyal to Rome. So while he permitted the continuance of the harsh discipline to the Tridentines in the ways he knew they would be hurt, he tried gentleness and reason with the Western heretics.
Of late, he has been quite open with how badly this has failed. But he has been slowly but surely placing key allies throughout the Western Church. I believe one reason he clings so desperately to life is that he does not believe his task is finished, having lost so many years not recognizing the threat. There are too many apostates in his church. I predict he will desperately convene one more consistory.
The good news is that he will help in this consistory. Ratzinger and Arinze are loyal allies, and he has the opportunity in recent years to replace much of the Curia, which had served him so poorly in the past.
The bad news is that he has made some poor picks, such as Waletr Kaspar and Renato Martino.
priceless.
Viva il Papa!
Viva Christianity!
Good analysis!
I do not agree with many things which JPII has done & spoken. I do not agree with his repression of Traditionalists, and basicly doing nothing of substance to discipline the Western heretics.
Regardless of any possible goodintentions - this send a very clear and bad message. The heretics are thus emboldened, seeing that they will not face serious rebuke of censure.......and the traditionalists have walked away in disguist, leavine many empty pews.
You very ably pinpointed his viewpoint - and his weaknesses, stemming from his background.
What afflicted him as a young Bishop in the 60s at Vatican II, and afflicts him today is what afflicts the minds of most churchmen...........and laity as well.......who live with the consequences of the dreaded "or" of Fatima. For this we have Pope John XXIII to thank, as he was the one who decided that to consecrate Russia in the manner which Our Lady requested, and to publish and reveal the third Secret in 1960 for the whole world to read & know.
Fatima was an "either - or" proposition, and John chose "or". We now live with the consequences of that "or".
The particular consequence which afflicted JPII and most churchmen as well as many laity is a diabolic disorientation of the mind. This clouds the abilty of the mind to connect with and use the conscience, and the mental gifts of the Holy Spirit (Knowledge, Wisdom, Understanding), which would strengthen right reason, and allow one to understand not only what is "right", but to see things as they truly are, with all cobwebs stripped away.
JPII is a man of his times, and as such, suffered very much from this diabolic disorientation. Yes, he did many things which he honestly felt were "right", when in fact they were not. Not because himself was inherently evil, but because he was duped. By those around him. By those who he trusted.
And by Satan himself - who seeks to dupe all men.....even the wisest and most spiritual. Those are his "biggest catches".......his great prizes.
But even Satan himself is a dupe.........poor devil! As he is a created creature......and as such has no choice but to serve the will of Christ, even if by accident.
This man - JPII - would not be pope, were it not within the ambit of Christ's will. It is his will that he occupy the Petrine ofice at this point in history. It is also Christ's will that the Church as well as the world in general be chastised now. By the evil of men - letting men destroy themselves. By letting church men destroy the earthly organization which we know of as the church.
JPII has a role to play in all of this. It is anot a pleasent one. But he has no choice but to serve Christ.
It is his great misfortune that he is Pope now....at this point in history. That his role has been and is to preside of the internal disintergration of the Roman Catholic Chuch organization.......and he can do nothing about it. It must be. It is the will of Christ that this happen now, in our time.
People want to blame JPII for the fall of the church? It has been prophecied for centuries. Mary has come in numberous apparitions warning of this. Yet she and her messages were ignored.......by priest and people alike. Man was warned by Mary for over 150 years.....and gave mere lip service in return.
We are now reaping what we have sown. Even though JPII is responsible for what has happened under his watch.....to heap all the balme on him is neither accurate,. nor fair.
Good analysis!
I do not agree with many things which JPII has done & spoken. I do not agree with his repression of Traditionalists, and basicly doing nothing of substance to discipline the Western heretics.
Regardless of any possible goodintentions - this send a very clear and bad message. The heretics are thus emboldened, seeing that they will not face serious rebuke of censure.......and the traditionalists have walked away in disguist, leavine many empty pews.
You very ably pinpointed his viewpoint - and his weaknesses, stemming from his background.
What afflicted him as a young Bishop in the 60s at Vatican II, and afflicts him today is what afflicts the minds of most churchmen...........and laity as well.......who live with the consequences of the dreaded "or" of Fatima. For this we have Pope John XXIII to thank, as he was the one who decided that to consecrate Russia in the manner which Our Lady requested, and to publish and reveal the third Secret in 1960 for the whole world to read & know.
Fatima was an "either - or" proposition, and John chose "or". We now live with the consequences of that "or".
The particular consequence which afflicted JPII and most churchmen as well as many laity is a diabolic disorientation of the mind. This clouds the abilty of the mind to connect with and use the conscience, and the mental gifts of the Holy Spirit (Knowledge, Wisdom, Understanding), which would strengthen right reason, and allow one to understand not only what is "right", but to see things as they truly are, with all cobwebs stripped away.
JPII is a man of his times, and as such, suffered very much from this diabolic disorientation. Yes, he did many things which he honestly felt were "right", when in fact they were not. Not because himself was inherently evil, but because he was duped. By those around him. By those who he trusted.
And by Satan himself - who seeks to dupe all men.....even the wisest and most spiritual. Those are his "biggest catches".......his great prizes.
But even Satan himself is a dupe.........poor devil! As he is a created creature......and as such has no choice but to serve the will of Christ, even if by accident.
This man - JPII - would not be pope, were it not within the ambit of Christ's will. It is his will that he occupy the Petrine ofice at this point in history. It is also Christ's will that the Church as well as the world in general be chastised now. By the evil of men - letting men destroy themselves. By letting church men destroy the earthly organization which we know of as the church.
JPII has a role to play in all of this. It is anot a pleasent one. But he has no choice but to serve Christ.
It is his great misfortune that he is Pope now....at this point in history. That his role has been and is to preside of the internal disintergration of the Roman Catholic Chuch organization.......and he can do nothing about it. It must be. It is the will of Christ that this happen now, in our time.
People want to blame JPII for the fall of the church? It has been prophecied for centuries. Mary has come in numberous apparitions warning of this. Yet she and her messages were ignored.......by priest and people alike. Man was warned by Mary for over 150 years.....and gave mere lip service in return.
We are now reaping what we have sown. Even though JPII is responsible for what has happened under his watch.....to heap all the balme on him is neither accurate,. nor fair.
My understanding is that the Blessed Virgin Mary required that the Pope consecrate Russia, in union with ALL the bishops of the world.
Well, before we blame a given Pope, there is a problem: What if the bishops of the world won't join in? What the Popes have done is sensible if this is what has happenend:
Idea #1: Consecrate Russia, without all the bishops of the world, hoping as Pope to represent them all.
Idea #2: Do what the bishops will participate in: Consecrate the World, hoping that counts since Russia is part of the world.
I've even heard it said that the Pope appeared to mouth unheard words when he tried idea #2, presumed to be specifying Ruissia in particular.
So, let's say for a moment that the people who insist Russia has not been consecrated are correct. Is the Pope to blame, or the apostate bishops? We cannot know that.
But has the Vatican lied when it reoprts that Sr. Lucia had approved of the consecration?
Maybe not. Having witnessed Pope John Paul II's sincere concern regarding Fatima, and witnessed the fall of communism, she may honestly have changed her mind.
We don't know.
I agree that it is a terrible misfortune of this Pope to be pope at this present time. I believe he certainly agrees. He has taken suffering apon himself to rescue the Church.
How familiar are you with the prophecies supposedly resulting in the promulgation of the Archangel Michael's Prayer, that for the 20th century, Christ would hand the world over to Satan?
I cannot help but to notice that the 21st century seems to be an awakening to the evil of the 20th century: The attacks of September 11, 2001, the pedophilia crises, the collapse of the UN's reputation, the hysterical anti-Americanism and anti-christian rantings of the mainstream Democratic party, the European Union emerging as anti-Christian: In all these cases, the evil which has long festered has been exposed. So much of the world has chosen evil, but men of good will can no longer be ignorant of it.
When I see that India is now the largest source of religius vocations, and that the native priests are assuming authority throughout the third world, replacing the heretical missionaries, and that even in America, church attendance is rebounding, I am filled with an optimism for the 21st century even while we have all been stripped of our naivete.
It is amazing to see the spread of Eucharistic adoration, of levels of sincere worship that amaze me. My "hope beyond all hope" is dawning into optimism as much as I dare allow it.
Is he good? Has he challenged the heretics? It would be comforting to know someone in his position is authentic.
The Pope, personally, does not review each and every episcopal appointment. Bishops are appointed by "kingmakers" in the American hierarchy, bishops who have significant influence over most appointments. Spellman was one in the 60s, Bernardin held sway in the 70s and early 80s. Rigali is touted as the kingmaker today.
The Congregation for the Clergy approves the names sent over, and the Pope likely reads about them in a memo after they're appointed.
That process will continue with JPII or without him.
At that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying: Who, thinkest thou, is the greater in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus, calling unto him a little child, set him in the midst of them.
And said: amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Practically, what you have said is true. Contrary to the wishes of many around here, JP2 must rely very heavily on the "kingmakers" or primates, whether they are official, or, as in the case of the US, unofficial.
Nevertheless, I believe the Pope has assumed the role of appointing new bishops.
Like I said, "priceless."
(I was thinking of the gospel, not of the Visa commercials.) :^D
=== Instead we hear the garbage out of people surrounding him "speaking" for him -- don't believe it for a minute that he would have said those things in earlier years.
The Pope and Reagan have much in common.
thanks for the redirect, dangus.
Regarding consecratin of Russia.
Can one consecrate what is not holy?
Knowing Russia quite well, both before and after the collapse of militant atheism, I understand the hesitation not because of this or that bishop, but because of what Russia still is: the place where the devil plays.
I think he still works pretty hard myself.
His legions, anyway.
Uh-oh. I thought I was being optimistic. :^D
To give a slightly better response: The liberals thought the election of Pope John Paul II would not harm their eventual victory. They are wrong. However, the state of the Roman church is much more serious in a way than the current crisis of Anglicanism. The Roman church has continued itself on the basis that it cannot be changed; that the proclaimed doctrines are eternal, infallible and unalterable. Like Physics, the truth can be unfolded but not invented. If it were possible to be changed, the rock of the faith of the Roman church would be extinguished.
The liberals believed they could in fact change it. The fact that they have not is the result of a spiritual conflict of unfathomable proportions.
The Anglican church, while the symptoms appear much more grave, they are in a sense far less grave. A temporary triumph by liberals* could be reversed by a groundswell. The neo-conservatives who replace them can credit the Holy Spirit with correcting error, and the Chuch actually appear ever more vindicated.
(*You know, like that whole little tiff King Henry VIII had. ;^D )
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