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Al-Azhar The Vatican Official apologies demanded
Morocco Times ^ | 3/17/2005

Posted on 03/17/2005 8:52:08 AM PST by annalex

Al-Azhar – The Vatican Official apologies demanded

Morocco TIMES 3/17/2005 | 1:35 pm

Egyptian highest religious authority Al-Azhar has requested the Vatican to present official apologies on Christian crusades carried out against Muslims seven centuries ago.

Sheikh Fawzi Zafzaf, President of the Interfaith Dialogue Committee of Al-Azhar, said during a press conference that his committee has sent a request to the Pope last February, demanding an official apology on Christian crusades against the Muslim world, following the example of the Jews.

The principle of demanding apology from the Vatican germinated following Pope Jean Paul II's visit to Syria and Egypt a few years ago, and the apologies the Catholic Church presented to the Jewish and some other Christian doctrines, explained Sheikh Zafzaf. “Al-Azhar is only asking for a similar treatment,” he added.

The Vatican's ambassador to Egypt has abstained from commenting, saying that Al-Azhar's request is now being considered by the Holy See.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; History; Islam; Judaism; Moral Issues; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: alazhar; apology; chickenshome2roost; crusades; pope; vatican
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To: annalex

Only if they apologize for the doctrine of offensive jihad against infidels outside of the House of Islam and promise to return all lands of the Byzantine Empire to Christian rule. And anyways, I thought the Pope already apologized for the wrongs committed during the Crusades at the millennium.


21 posted on 03/17/2005 2:14:17 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: annalex

I am waiting for an apology for all the homo-heretical bishops that have been foisted upon us


22 posted on 03/17/2005 3:05:57 PM PST by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: Unam Sanctam

Like I posted in #19, we cannot make an apology a tradeable commodity. Since we have a grievance, whose size stretches from the Pyrenees to the Bosphorus, we simply find nothing to apologize about, except perhaps in some minutae.


23 posted on 03/17/2005 3:23:55 PM PST by annalex
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To: Piers-the-Ploughman
homo-heretical bishops

That, indeed, is a pressing need.

24 posted on 03/17/2005 3:25:03 PM PST by annalex
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To: ArrogantBustard
My recollection was correct, but lacked in specifics.
... On the insistent demand of the new pope, Gregory IX, [Holy Roman emperor] Frederick [the Second] embarked on a crusade (Sept., 1227), but fell ill, turned back, and was excommunicated.

In 1228 he finally embarked. His “crusade,” actually a state visit, was a diplomatic victory. At Jaffa he made a treaty by which Jerusalem, Nazareth, and Bethlehem were surrendered to the Christians, with the Mosque of Omar being left to the Muslims. In 1229 he crowned himself king at Jerusalem. The pope denounced the treaty by Frederick, who was still under excommunication, and sent a papal army to invade Frederick's kingdom. Frederick returned in 1229 and signed (1230) the Treaty of San Germano, by which he was temporarily reconciled with the pope.

(Frederick II, King of Jerusalem)

The eery coronation ceremony is retold by Brian Moynahan in The Faith.

25 posted on 03/17/2005 4:50:27 PM PST by annalex
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To: ArrogantBustard

"the enemy of Western Civilisation is the same mohammedans."

Except that since then, Western Civilization has donned the black hat. Back then, Western Civilization did not stand for cutting heads off babies, sodomy, pornography, contraception, fornication and adultery. It is not for nothing that the Pope calls this the Culture of Death.


26 posted on 03/17/2005 7:19:27 PM PST by SausageDog
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To: OLD REGGIE
The Romans killed Jesus.

... based upon charges presented by Jewish authorities. But all that is beside the point. A CENTRAL tenet of Christian teaching is that WE killed Jesus ... all humans ... in and through our sins. WE are the reason he willingly went to the cross and died. It's not the Romans, and it's certainly not the Jews, who deserve condemnation for his death. It's us.
27 posted on 03/18/2005 7:28:04 AM PST by TexasGreg ("Democrats Piss Me Off")
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To: TexasGreg
The Romans killed Jesus.

We are told in the Gospels that those who handed Jesus over to the Roman authorities were more culpable.

You are right about Jesus dying for all of us, but in a strictly worldly legalistic-at-that-time, *some Jews at that time* were more to be blamed for Jesus' death than the executioners.

Jesus later, on the cross, asked God to forgive them for they knew not what they were doing. I'm not sure any more who "them" is.

But facts is facts, pc or not.

28 posted on 03/18/2005 8:09:19 AM PST by Aliska
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To: annalex
How's this - We're real sorry we had to kill you defending ourselves from having our throats slit by you. We're real sorry that you are totally intolerant and wanted to eliminate our beliefs through murdering us. We hope you are sorry for leaving us no choice but to defend ourselves or be murdered by you over belief.

Now where is YOUR apology to those you were intolerant to?
29 posted on 03/18/2005 8:12:40 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Aliska

Aliska, re-read my post. I was responding to the statement regarding the Romans having Killed jesus. That was why I put the statement in italics ... it was a quote of a previous post.

The Romans DID kill Jesus ... but, as I added, at the instigation of the Jewish authorities. Both were the instruments God used to carry out the sacrifice. That's historical fact.

My post was making a far more important theological observation: we have no business blaming Jews, OR Romans, for the death of Jesus. WE killed him, with every sin we commit. Focusing upon who did the deed, and who turned Jesus over to whom, misdirects us away from the focus and import of the atoning sacrifice which our Lord made upon the cross for OUR sins.

In other words, issues of political correctness are entirely beside the point. indeed, this is the first time I've EVER heard orthodox Christian theology called pc.


30 posted on 03/18/2005 8:23:52 AM PST by TexasGreg ("Democrats Piss Me Off")
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To: Gerard.P; pascendi; AAABEST; Canticle_of_Deborah; vox_freedom; Robert Drobot; rogator

ping


31 posted on 03/18/2005 8:29:10 AM PST by murphE (Each of the SSPX priests seems like a single facet on the gem that is the alter Christus. -Gerard. P)
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To: TexasGreg
I"m sorry I didn't read the whole thread. I'm following the latest news on the Schiavo case. I agree with 99 percent of what you said, but stand by my statement about pc. It's not pc to say anything to the effect that *some* Jews were responsible for handing Jesus over to the authorities. It's really getting un-pc to even talk about it.

That does not mean that I in any way excuse the way Jews have been treated over the centuries.

I'm mindful of the fact that the earliest/founding Christians were exclusively Jews.

32 posted on 03/18/2005 8:54:58 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Pyro7480
Remember Lepanto!

You beat me to it, and I'll reiterate:

Remember Lepanto!!!

Lepanto by G.K.Chesterton


White founts falling in the Courts of the sun,
And the Soldan of Byzantium is smiling as they run;
There is laughter like the fountains in that face of all men feared,
It stirs the forest darkness,
the darkness of his beard;
It curls the blood-red crescent,
the crescent of his lips;
For the inmost sea of all the earth is shaken with his ships.
They have dared the white republics up the capes of Italy,
They have dashed the Adriatic round the Lion of the Sea,
And the Pope has cast his arms abroad for agony and loss,
And called the kings of Christendom for swords about the Cross.
The cold queen of England is looking in the glass;
The shadow of the Valois is yawning at the Mass;
From evening isles fantastical rings faint the Spanish gun,
And the Lord upon the Golden Horn is laughing in the sun.
Dim drums throbbing, in the hills half heard,
Where only on a nameless throne a crownless prince has stirred,
Where, risen from a doubtful seat and half attainted stall,
The last knight of Europe takes weapons from the wall,
The last and lingering troubadour to whom the bird has sung,
That once went singing southward when all the world was young.
In that enormous silence, tiny and unafraid,
Comes up along a winding road the noise of the Crusade.
Strong gongs groaning as the guns boom far, Don John of Austria is going to the war,
Stiff flags straining in the night-blasts cold In the gloom black-purple,
in the glint old-gold, Torchlight crimson on the copper kettle-drums,
Then the tuckets, then the trumpets, then the cannon, and he comes.

Read the entire Chesterton tome here, it is well worth it:

Lepanto, by GK Chesterton

33 posted on 03/18/2005 9:07:35 AM PST by vox_freedom (Fear no evil)
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To: murphE; thor76

Thanks for the ping.


34 posted on 03/18/2005 9:11:18 AM PST by vox_freedom (Fear no evil)
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To: murphE

Thanks murphE.


35 posted on 03/18/2005 10:17:48 AM PST by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Aliska
It's not pc to say anything to the effect that *some* Jews were responsible for handing Jesus over to the authorities. It's really getting un-pc to even talk about it.

You're absolutely correct. And ... I've never been one to be afraid of stating that the Jewish leadership participated in the act. Indeed, I'm not at all used to being accused of being pc ... either directly or sideways. :)
36 posted on 03/18/2005 2:25:27 PM PST by TexasGreg ("Democrats Piss Me Off")
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To: annalex; Askel5; ArrogantBustard

To this day we are bearing the cost
When Byzantium Africa lost
To the barefooted caliphs
We have a special malice
Soon once more the Suez will be crossed

For a long time Pope Urban the Second
Danger to Christian pilgrims had reckoned
So he declared, -- it looks
We must fight the Seljuks
Once Alexius Comnenus beckoned

If you think you can rule Outremer
Most egregiously then you would err
Thus Pope Gregory said
Frederick he ordered dead
Templars’ kingdom was a sad affair


37 posted on 03/20/2005 12:10:36 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; ArrogantBustard; NYer; Kolokotronis
Hmmm. I don't know what the Vatican may say, but here is a memo from one Virginian to "Al-Azhar":

When the hot place gets mighty cold, baby!


38 posted on 03/24/2005 11:48:04 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (tired of all the shucking and jiving)
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