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What I believe about the end of the age.
today | Darren Morrison

Posted on 03/27/2005 7:38:26 AM PST by RMrattlesnake

What I believe about the end of the age.

This is a hard topic for me. I have had difficulty with this. I have been taught a lot of things concerning the return of Christ. I have heard it all pre-tribulation, post tribulation, mid-tribulation and the preterus point of view. Only one of these can be true. There are teachings out there that say there is no rapture, just because the word rapture doesn’t appear in the bible. The fact of the matter is rapture is a Greek word for caught up. Funny how churches that will say this word in Greek means such and such to make their point will say rapture doesn’t appear in the bible so it will not happen. The Rapture is a real event that will take place some day in the future and no one knows that hour. Many of the future events mentioned in the bible do not speak favorably of Rome. When the invention of the printing press revolutionized the world and made the bible available to just about every one that wanted a copy the Catholic Church had a problem. So they invented doctrines such as the preterus point of view to draw focus away from Rome in the end times. Out of the preterus point of view came the post and mid tribulation doctrines as well. The only view that is supported by the scriptures is the pre-tribulation.

The return of Christ is a fundamental teaching of the bible, it is our blessed hope TITUS 2:13. Jesus said in his own spoken words that he would return John 14: 1-4. Two angels told the disciples that Jesus will return Acts 1: 11. Paul said in his letter to the church in Jerusalem that Christ shall appear a second time Hebrews 9:28. The very last promise in the bible was that he will return again REVELATION 22:12. Therefore it is clear to me that Christ will return.

The first account of Christ was foretold in the Old Testament. There are hundreds of old testament prophecies concerning the first coming, confirming to me that Jesus was and is he that was foretold. There are even more prophecies relating to his second coming. Since the prophecies of his first coming were accurate then therefore his second coming will be just as the bible says it will be.

The second coming will be in two distinct stages. The first stage is the rapture Christ comes for his saints. Then there is a seven-year period called the great tribulation after which Christ comes with his saints.

The term rapture means “caught up” and it will most certainly happen (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18/ 1 Corinthians 15:51,52/ Philippians 3:20,21) According to the scriptures the Rapture is an instantaneous event, all Christians living and dead will receive glorified resurrected bodies and we will be caught up in the air to meet Christ. According to Matthew 24:42 we will not be given time to get ready. So we need to be ready now. According to 2 Peter 3:3-9 the only reason the Rapture has not happened yet is the Lord wants to save sinners. So to get ready for the Rapture we need to be Soul warning. Would it not be a wonderful thing if the Rapture happens just after you lead a lost person to Christ?

After the Rapture, of the saints comes a dark and terrible time on earth. This is not a time like in the Left Behind books. I am talking about the seven year Tribulation. The old testament prophet Daniel reveals this seven year period between the two phases of the Second coming. Daniel 9:24 speaks of a time of seventy weeks and in Daniel 9:25 he shows that these weeks are in fact seven years. In Daniel 9:27 The present day of grace will stop. Christian will not take part in what will transpire on earth during that period of time. I believe that people can get saved during that time but they will not have the Spirit of GOD with them and their life will be one of heavy persecution. It will be a dark and evil time unlike any time in history.

Meanwhile, The Judgment seat of Christ will take place. Just as the rapture and the seven-year tribulation are real future events so also is the judgment seat of Christ. Everyone will take part in the Judgment Romans 14:10-12, every one will bow before GOD every Christian and every unrepentant sinner even the devout atheist will bow before Jesus Christ and proclaim him GOD and then will give account of himself. For us who are Christians will have to stand before GOD as well. The fire of Judgment will judge our works. From the day we became a Christian a foundation was laid and we began building on that foundation. Every work we have done is part of that building those that we have done to the flesh and personal gain is wood hay and stubble, that which we have build in the spirit is unselfishly to the glory of Jesus’ gain is gold, silver and precious stones. When the fire of GOD consumes your works at the judgment what will survive Wood and hay burn and stubble is leaves and sticks gathered to start fires in those days. We might receive crowns at the Judgment; I say might because sadly enough not all Christians will receive crowns. There are five Crowns, The Crown of Rejoicing (soul winner’s crown) 1 Thessalonians 2:19, The Crown of Life (the faithful Christian crown) James 1:12, The Crown of Righteousness (for those who look and live for his return) 2 Timothy 4:8, The Incorruptible Crown (the victorious crown) 1 Corinthians 9:25 and The Crown of Glory (this crown is for faithful Pastors) 1 Peter 5:4.

After the saints are judged I believe there will be a feast called The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb. According to Ephesians 5:22-32 the relationship between Christ and his church is like a husband and wife. You can read in my essay on the bride of Christ to understand my thoughts on this topic. The union of the bride and groom take place after the rapture and the wedding celebration is called the Marriage Supper of the Lamb Revelations 19:7-9.

While the marriage Supper of the Lamb is taking place in heaven on earth the great tribulation is well underway. It is time of wars, rebellions, catastrophe and desolation. The Jews will face great persecution and the nation of Israel Daniel 9:24. The Anti-Christ will rule. There are many anti-Christs but this one is the Devil incarnate. This is an awful time but we as Christian do not have to go through it. The lord said to the church at Philadelphia he would keep them from this time Revelation 3:10. We are not appointed to Wrath 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and this time is called the time of wrath Revelation 7:14. The Rapture in imminent, it could happen at any time Luke 21:34-36.

Then comes the Revelation of Jesus Christ. This is the second phase of the second coming. This time he comes with his saints to judge the world. Jesus Christ will come to execute Judgment upon the earth Jude 14,15. We will judge with our Lord. This is a time of vengeance and destruction 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. Jesus will set his feet on the mount of olives Zechariah 14:1-4. He will then judge all nations Matthew 25:31,32. He will judge from the valley of Jehoshaphat Joel 3:12-16. Then Satan will be bound for a thousand years Revelation 20:2,3. Christ will reign for a thousand years Revelations 20:4. The thousand years is called the Millennial Reign Of Christ this will be a time of peace and tranquility there will me no wars or judgments. We will worship the King and keep the feasts Zechariah 14:16.

At the end of the millennial reign of Christ Satan will be loosened from his chains. Satan will lead his last rebellion on earth Revelations 16:14. Satan will rule again with the wicked. But only for a short time then Satan will reap his final reward and be cast into the lake of fire Revelation 20:20. Then comes the Great White Throne of Judgment where all the unbelievers will find out that their works meant nothing, all those who did not trust in Jesus will find out that their names did not appear in the book of life and they will be cast into the lake of fire Revelations 20:15.

Then all the saved will spend eternity with GOD Ephesians 3:21. That will include the church of the first born (the Bride), the general assembly those who are saved but were never members of a local New Testament visible church like ours, just men made perfect those are the old Testament Saint those who believed in the coming Messiah and trusted in it Hebrew 12 22-24.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: jesus; prophesy; rature; secondcoming; theend

1 posted on 03/27/2005 7:38:27 AM PST by RMrattlesnake
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To: RMrattlesnake
And just when you thought the world was over....the Left Behind series--- there are 3 parallell series to enjoy: the kids, by the same authors, a series by Mel Odom and another by Nessa Hart. o boy!

Doesn't matter what you believe, these books are fun. I don't believe in witches, but I like the Harry Potter series. I don't believe in vampires, but I enjoy Dark Shadows.

2 posted on 03/27/2005 7:47:52 AM PST by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
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To: RMrattlesnake

I think you're right on target.


3 posted on 03/27/2005 7:48:26 AM PST by Jaysun (If you eat mayonnaise on your hot dogs please don't talk to me.)
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To: RMrattlesnake
Wow...it took nearly six lines before the smoke of Satan (read that anti-Catholicism) reared its ugly head. I'm impressed.

Happy Easter! He is Risen! Alleluia!

4 posted on 03/27/2005 7:57:29 AM PST by big'ol_freeper (World Series Champion Boston Red Sox!! Has a nice ring to it.)
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To: RMrattlesnake
Pre, mid, and post..... What does it matter if you are not ready. I think sometimes people have way to much time on their hands. It is people like you who ponder 'if God can do anything can He make a rock to big to lift?"
Be ready...produce fruit and worry about the time table - not!
It is not for us to know the time or day..that is in God's hands. Our job is to be ready......making sure that everyone hears the Good News.
5 posted on 03/27/2005 8:02:46 AM PST by roylene
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To: RMrattlesnake
Who gives a rat's patootie if this denomination here, or that denomination there believes or disbelieves in a Rapture. As long my four, if no more does.

Real Christians would be better serves showing the pragmatic Gifts of the Spirit to amaze and astound the unsaved, rather than focusing on a future event.

6 posted on 03/27/2005 8:22:44 AM PST by Ff--150 (Multiple Tsunamis of Income)
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To: RMrattlesnake

Of course I believe in the rapture, it's Biblical. It's the SECRET rapture I have a problem with. This will be a worldwide event in which the heavens open up and there will be no mistaking that.


7 posted on 03/27/2005 8:42:17 AM PST by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: RMrattlesnake
So they invented doctrines such as the preterus point of view to draw focus away

I believe you mean preterist

And yes it was invented by the Roman church by a Jesuit priest.

B'shem Y'shua
chuck

8 posted on 03/27/2005 10:51:26 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: RMrattlesnake
When the invention of the printing press revolutionized the world and made the bible available to just about every one that wanted a copy the Catholic Church had a problem. So they invented doctrines such as the preterus point of view to draw focus away from Rome in the end times.
It would help the author's credibility if he were at least somewhat accurate historically. The Amillenial(what the autor calls--preterus, a mispelling) view was one held by many in the early church after the 2nd century, and wasn't concocted by the Roman church as he asserts.

Out of the preterus point of view came the post and mid tribulation doctrines as well.
The historical premil position and post-mil positions have also been ones supported by various early church fathers, so his history is terribly inaccurate again.

The only view that is supported by the scriptures is the pre-tribulation.
A dubious claim at best.

9 posted on 03/27/2005 2:58:31 PM PST by Earl_of_Nottingham ("It is Augustine who gave us the Reformation."...B. B. Warfield)
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To: Earl_of_Nottingham

Thank you I had no Idea how to spell "preterus" you can't look soemthing up you have no don't know how to spell.


10 posted on 03/27/2005 4:12:47 PM PST by RMrattlesnake
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To: RMrattlesnake
The fact of the matter is rapture is a Greek word for caught up.

The fact of the matter is, it's not.

11 posted on 03/27/2005 4:18:44 PM PST by John Locke
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To: roylene
I agree with you 100%. I find a fixation with the end times to be a very misplaced allocation of time or energy.

What does it matter? As you say, it's a personal odyssey and the individual must be ready. From a practical standpoint, what does it matter if my own day of judgment also happens to be everyone else's? To me, it doesn't matter at all - will the waiting room in the great beyond just be crowded?

Take a number - now serving # 1,228,163,001, and my ticket says 3,889,000,386.

Most people who I have met who are unusually fixated on the end times invariably fancy themselves spared from the worst of it. That's fair, and they may be right, but I can't help but think it's self serving, either.

Scripture explicitly tells us that no human knows the time. Why sweat it? Just do your best to be the kind of person God wants you to be. Spread the good news as you move through life.

Being giddy at the prospect of years of a torturous existence for the majority of the population (that of course you will be spared) is downright immature and silly at best.
12 posted on 03/27/2005 4:20:37 PM PST by HitmanLV
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To: RMrattlesnake

God forbid I would discourage anyone from bible study. At times, I find it extremely interesting. IMO, today is the day of salvation. My work takes me all around the midwest during the winter months, and the number of crosses (sites of vehicular death) along the highways and byways, is sobering. These signify people of all ages meeting an end to this life. Seek the Lord while one can, because you never know.........

Goodnight,
Zuriel


13 posted on 03/27/2005 7:35:24 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: RMrattlesnake

***you can't look soemthing up you have no don't know how to spell.***

If you can't be bothered with looking something up and getting your research right, why should anyone bother with a single word you say?

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


14 posted on 03/28/2005 7:56:50 AM PST by thePilgrim (Pro 28:26 he that walketh in wisdome, shall be deliuered.)
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To: thePilgrim
I know you are ignorant to the fact I have dyslexia but it takes me a long time to write anything. You must only ber a Christan to those who can spell. I did do research but a lot of it was verbal information. you need to stop tring to read people minds because you are unable. I never said I did not do research so for you to out and lie like that means you are not a very nice person and one I should not argue with.
15 posted on 03/28/2005 2:40:34 PM PST by RMrattlesnake
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To: John Locke
Yes it is look it up. I have Greek translater. Rapture means cought up in Greek. FACT
16 posted on 03/28/2005 2:44:41 PM PST by RMrattlesnake
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To: Ff--150

People do not get saved though signs and wonders they get saved by the convicting power of the holy spirit.


17 posted on 03/28/2005 2:46:18 PM PST by RMrattlesnake
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To: RMrattlesnake
Rapture means cought up in Greek.

Actually, the greek word translated as "caught up", is harpazo.

18 posted on 03/28/2005 3:05:53 PM PST by Earl_of_Nottingham ("It is Augustine who gave us the Reformation."...B. B. Warfield)
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To: RMrattlesnake

I thought it was the author, Darren Morrison, who mispelled preterist, not you. I didn't mean to seem to be nitpicking, I hope it wasn't taken so.


19 posted on 03/28/2005 3:09:16 PM PST by Earl_of_Nottingham ("It is Augustine who gave us the Reformation."...B. B. Warfield)
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To: RMrattlesnake
At the end of the millennial reign of Christ Satan will be loosened from his chains. Satan will lead his last rebellion on earth Revelations 16:14. Satan will rule again with the wicked.

Ummm, if we caught Satan, why would we let him go?

20 posted on 03/28/2005 3:10:40 PM PST by bigeasy_70118
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To: bigeasy_70118
Ummm, if we caught Satan, why would we let him go?

Every hour of every day there are charismatics who "bind Satan". You can hear them say the majic words, "I bind you Satan in the name of Jeeeesuuuuuus."

The question is, who keeps letting him loose?

21 posted on 03/28/2005 5:31:51 PM PST by Earl_of_Nottingham ("It is Augustine who gave us the Reformation."...B. B. Warfield)
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To: BipolarBob

***you can't look soemthing up you have no don't know how to spell.***

If you can't be bothered with looking something up and getting your research right, why should anyone bother with a single word you say?
So Pilgrim slams RMR on spelling and he has a mis-spelling in his tagline, hmmm . . . .


22 posted on 03/28/2005 6:39:58 PM PST by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: RMrattlesnake

***You must only ber a Christan to those who can spell.***

No, you flat out admitted that you didn't lookup Preterism because you couldn't spell it, not because you have dyslexia. If you have a reference on Preterism, then why couldn't you have simply looked up the spelling of the word from your reference. This is what I do when I can't remember how a word is spelled. I have no idea why you think your dyslexia has anything to do with anything.

BTW, you aren't the only one on this forum with dyslexia and you aren't the only one who has reading and or learning challenges.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


23 posted on 03/28/2005 7:54:41 PM PST by thePilgrim (He that hideth his sinnes, shall not prosper: he that confesses, and forsakes them, shall haue mercy)
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To: Earl_of_Nottingham

***Every hour of every day there are charismatics who "bind Satan". You can hear them say the majic words, "I bind you Satan in the name of Jeeeesuuuuuus."

The question is, who keeps letting him loose?***

HA! Very funny. Too bad that Charismatics (and Christians in general) haven't figured out what an itty bitty putty tat he really is. From my perspective (Eph 2:6), he can't touch anyone without permission from his Lord (Job 1-2 for starters). And, maybe one of these days Christians in general will figure out that a stronger than Satan has come and He bound the strong man right before He began to plunder his house (Mat 12:29).

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


24 posted on 03/28/2005 8:04:19 PM PST by thePilgrim (He that hideth his sinnes, shall not prosper: he that confesses, and forsakes them, shall haue mercy)
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To: BipolarBob

***So Pilgrim slams RMR on spelling and he has a mis-spelling in his tagline, hmmm . . . .***

No, silly boy, that is exactly how my Bible spells the words. BTW, I also have a terrible habit of regressing to my Scot/ English heritage and spelling words in ways you might also think is wrong. My complaint was that he admitted to not even looking up a word because he couldn't spell it. Well, how could he have possibly researched the topic and have any kind of scholarship on the subject without having the proper spelling for the word?

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


25 posted on 03/28/2005 8:10:04 PM PST by thePilgrim (He that hideth his sinnes, shall not prosper: he that confesses, and forsakes them, shall haue mercy)
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To: RMrattlesnake
a lot of it was verbal information

I don't trust verbal research. Nothing personal, but "verbal research" is unverifiable. I can't go to the library and pick up "verbal research."

At the same time, the fact that you were unable to look up what Preterism and Amillenialism means that you cannot be an expert on the topic. Your dyslexia has little to do with that; it just means that all you know about preterism and amillenialism is what you've been told by someone whose biases are unknown to us. I don't know if your source wrestled with who the genea that will not pass away before Mat. 24 is fullfilled is. I don't know if your sources examined the writings of Justin Martyr or Augustine. I don't know if your sources have dealt with the fact that dispensational premillenialism was an unknown until it was taught by an obscure Anglican separatist itinerant preacher in the 1830's.

In short, I can't tell if your sources know anything at all beyond what they believe.

26 posted on 03/28/2005 8:39:48 PM PST by jude24 (The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.)
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To: bigeasy_70118
The prophecy that he will be loosed for a short while speaks volumes to the nature of all angels and humans. I associate it with the same reason New Yorkers voted for Hillary.

Some angels must be damnedYankees!

27 posted on 03/28/2005 8:51:03 PM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: jude24

You forgot to mention that you don't know Scripture teaches premillenialism.


28 posted on 03/28/2005 8:54:41 PM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: RMrattlesnake

nice post.


29 posted on 03/28/2005 8:55:34 PM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: roylene
I'm with you. I've studied all of them, and I'm a Pan-Tribulationist, however it pans out, I'm on board. There's no way I'm saying, "Hey, it's not time yet! Put me back!"

Jack Hayford did a very interesting series on Revelation. I personally believe that we are spared the wrath of God, but not the tribulation, and that the rapture occurs at the seventh trumpet. The idea that we're spared much of the end times is a peculiarly Western idea, because Christians in the US have never experienced serious persecution. Talk to the Saints in China, Russia, or North Korea.

30 posted on 03/28/2005 9:01:41 PM PST by Richard Kimball (It was a joke. You know, humor. Like the funny kind. Only different.)
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To: RMrattlesnake
It's Latin, not Greek. The Greek word is kelethmos.
31 posted on 03/29/2005 1:36:04 AM PST by John Locke
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To: Cvengr
you don't know Scripture teaches premillenialism.

Ah, but I do. I know the proof-texts that premillenialists use. I'm aware of the broader contraversey, however.

Do realize: I grew up Plymouth Brethren, which is unabashedly premillenial. I know quite well what premillenialism teaches. I simply question its foundation.

Not all who disagree are ignorant.

32 posted on 03/29/2005 4:30:38 AM PST by jude24 (The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.)
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To: thePilgrim
HA! Very funny. Too bad that Charismatics (and Christians in general) haven't figured out what an itty bitty putty tat he really is. From my perspective (Eph 2:6), he can't touch anyone without permission from his Lord (Job 1-2 for starters). And, maybe one of these days Christians in general will figure out that a stronger than Satan has come and He bound the strong man right before He began to plunder his house (Mat 12:29).

Unfortunately Satan has been given much more power than he actually has by charismatics and Christians of other persuasions, alomost to the point of the dualistic concept of the gnostics, not realizing that Christ made a spectacle of the powers of darkness on the Cross and bound Satan through the Atonement, Resurrection and the Truth of the Gospel.

Satan is a toothless dog on a short leash.

33 posted on 03/29/2005 7:42:06 AM PST by Earl_of_Nottingham ("It is Augustine who gave us the Reformation."...B. B. Warfield)
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To: Richard Kimball
Great analysis. I will have to find Jack Hayford's work. I must admit I have not heard of him. Thanks for the info.
He has risen! No, check that... He is risen!
34 posted on 03/29/2005 8:52:31 AM PST by roylene
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To: roylene
Hayford's a charismatic. I don't agree with all of his beliefs (I'm particularly skeptical about speaking in tongues), but I find him to be a man who studies the Bible and has an informed perspective.

I think all of us have some error in our beliefs, and that God is merciful in forgiving error, so long as we understand the big issues, namely, He's God, we're not. We get into Heaven through grace not works, and Christ died for our sins.

35 posted on 03/29/2005 9:34:05 AM PST by Richard Kimball (It was a joke. You know, humor. Like the funny kind. Only different.)
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