In church's dreams, Vatican II never happened

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | April 13, 2005 | ANDREW GREELEY

[sinkspur]

Ask "younger Catholics" what they think of contraception, and if they intend to use it.

[Torie]

I don't see any evidence in the polls of this theologically conservative resurgance among younger Catholics. In fact, at least in the US, I tend to recall the opposite.

[Grey Ghost II]

Oh well, if most people don't accept it, they should just change the doctrine to what people will accept.

Actually, those people really hope and pray the next pope will change doctrine. I can understand their enthusiasm in light of the actions of the post-conciliar popes.

[murphE]

The hierarchy should find out why these Catholic couples simply ignore Church teaching on contraception.

Because it's hard to live a faithful Catholic life, the narrow gate and all, and it's impossible to live it without the grace of Our Lord.

Instead of berating them, telling them they're going to hell if they don't do what the Pope says,

Oh yeah like that happens.

Perhaps it would also be a good thing to find out why a significant number of clergy don't accept the teaching either.

That's easy, they've lost their faith or they never really had it to begin with. They're apostate.

[sinkspur]

We've endured 37 years of Catholic couples who pay no attention to the Church's teaching on family planning. The Pope reiterates the teaching, and even more Catholic couples ignore it.

The Church has its head in the sand on this issue. The tepid response of Rome to the sexual abuse scandal further compromised the Church's moral voice to Catholics.

[gbcdoj]

I don't see any evidence in the polls of this theologically conservative resurgance among younger Catholics. In fact, at least in the US, I tend to recall the opposite.

I have seen at least one that support for Church doctrine on contraception is up 1-2% among younger Catholics.

[Grey Ghost II]

Ask "younger Catholics" what they think of contraception, and if they intend to use it.

Why? Do they have a vote?

[gbcdoj]

Make that I have seen at least one report that support for Church doctrine on contraception is up 1-2% among younger Catholics.

[sinkspur]

I don't see any evidence in the polls of this theologically conservative resurgance among younger Catholics. In fact, at least in the US, I tend to recall the opposite.

You recall correctly.

If the younger Catholics are the future of the Church, they'll be a lot more liberal morally than their parents.

[gbcdoj]

Perhaps it would also be a good thing to find out why a significant number of clergy don't accept the teaching either.

I think you missed my question on the other thread, so I'll pose it again here. I remember you said before that you do accept the conclusion of HV, but you do not accept its arguments. So what is the reason that you accept it? Perhaps we can use it on the dissenters ;)

[murphE]

Ask "younger Catholics" what they think of contraception, and if they intend to use it.

You tell me where the difference is. The younger Catholics, young families in my chapel in their 20's and early 30's have 5, 6, and 7 kids.

[sinkspur]

Do they have a vote?

The Church is one source that young people look to for guidance. In many cases, it's not the first place they turn.

[madprof98]

This is interesting. We have Sinkspur, who campaigns incessantly for changes in Church law so he can get ordained, and now you, who constantly put in a good word for abortion . . . both of you now claiming that you can't imagine where anybody got the idea that young Catholics are taking their faith seriously. You two need to follow some of the discussions on that conservative forum called FREE REPUBLIC.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

There are a lot of families like that at the parish I attend...those with big families almost always take their church much more seriously...and we have a whole bunch of them here.

[madprof98]

The Church is one source that young people look to for guidance. In many cases, it's not the first place they turn.

Better hope they change the rules so you can be a priest, Sinkspur. You already sound like Father Greeley . . . or maybe it's Father Drinan.

[sinkspur]

I accept Humanae Vitae because I am told to accept it.

[Torie]

I suppose one question to pose, is what should be the mission of your Church? Is it to try to reach into and enhance the spiritual and human lives of the bulk of its flock, and expose them to the tools and message which will tend to assist them to be better and happier persons while on this moral coil, as a more enobling precursor to the heaven in which your Church believes, inspired by the example of the essential Christ, or to become a much more exclusive club, with the bar set so high, that it becomes more like the Marines, where only a few "good men" need apply, with the rest encouraged to take a hike? It is a choice for each to make, and that choice I think animates much of what divides around here when it comes to matters of your Church. The grand thing is that each are free to choose.

[sinkspur]

Instead of jumping to conclusions about why Catholic couples use contraception (as you did), I am suggesting we ask them and let them answer.

[gbcdoj]

Didn't you say on the other thread that no "rational human beings" would accept HV based on the argument from authority?

[sinkspur]

Free Republic is no more representative of young Catholics than it is about the opinions of Republicans.