For your lively discussion.
Viva il Papa!
posted on 04/19/2005 10:31:36 PM PDT
To: nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; attagirl; goldenstategirl; Starmaker; ...
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posted on 04/19/2005 10:32:53 PM PDT
(†With God all things are possible.†)
de labore solis, from the labor of the sun (with no clear explanation...
On another Malachi thread a reference to the East, i.e. Slavdom, as well as to the late Pope's incessant circling the Globe, were seen in the title.
posted on 04/19/2005 10:44:05 PM PDT
PING! (per our discussion)
posted on 04/19/2005 11:03:02 PM PDT
(Forget the Box! Try thinking outside the Oort.)
John Paul IIDe labore solis
From the labor of the Sun
John Paul II's birthdate of May 18, 1920 coincided with the largest magnitude partial solar eclipse of the 20th century. The eclipse, one of only 228 solar eclipses during the century, did occur over Europe. His diocese of Krakow is the same place were Copernicus toiled and labored on his theory that the Sun was the center of the Solar System. He came from the East - Poland - the direction from which the Sun rises, and was the first non-Italian Pope in 455 years. The date of his funeral - April 8, 2005 - coincided with a rare hybrid eclipse.
John Paul I
De medietate lunae
From the half Moon
John Paul I's name was Albino Luciani which literally means "white light," as of the Moon. His diocese was Belluna, Italy which literally means "good Moon." His reign began on the phase of the half Moon, one day after its start. The term "half Moon" can also be interpreted as being symbolic of a short reign. He reigned for 34 days, starting from one day past the half Moon and ending just slightly less than a quarter past the next half Moon, but still within its phase. It has been reported that John Paul I privately predicted that his reign would be short and that he would be succeeded by Karol Wojtyla. Both predictions were correct. Incidentally, of the 100+ Cardinals in the August 1978 Conclave, Luciani and Wojtyla sat exactly across from each other in the Sistine Chapel. The official seating chart confirms this.
posted on 04/19/2005 11:11:35 PM PDT
by Norman Bates
(In memoriam: Pope John Paul II†, Theresa Marie Schindler†)
posted on 04/20/2005 3:47:53 AM PDT
(Oh Lord help me this day to keep my big mouth shut)
Do you think this means that there is this pope and then one more pope, and that then there will be no more popes?
What will they do...change organizational styles? Rule through a council of Cardinals? Break up the Catholic Church?
Seriously, what's being suggested here?
posted on 04/20/2005 5:43:12 AM PDT
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
I gotta disagree. The evidence seems to point to the "prophecies" of Malachy as being a pious fraud. The laguage prior to the 16th century predictions is much more concise, whereas those after are considerably more vague. Couple that with the fact that they were supposedly "found" in the Vatican archives at this time seems suspect. Malachy also said after 400 years of persecution of the Irish, England would come back to Catholicism. Hasn't happened. Even the "Peter the Roman" entry wasn't mentioned until 1820. As far as the Olivetan connection, it's backwards. Olivetans are Benedictines, but not all Benedictines are Olivetans. Past that, name or not, our new Holy Father is NOT a Benedictine.
Not saying it's not possible, just saying I'm not convinced.
posted on 04/20/2005 6:03:52 AM PDT
(Canonize Pope John Paul the Great as patron Saint of the unborn.)
Salvation, Salvation, Salvation....
The fact is though Malachy lived in the 12th century, the "prophecies" surfaced in the 1600s, and were never alluded to in the biography of Malachy. After 1600 people had to go to much greater lengths to find correlations.
Lets look at the whole stack of these lines listed in: Catholic Pages listing of the alleged Prophecies
After 1600 they are not even attempted to be applied, the listing doesn't really start until 1830, and even then they are pretty sparse. From 1600 to 1830 lets look at a few.
Pius VI has no description or interpretation to lead us to name him "Peregrinus Apostolicus". Innocent XIII has "De bona Religione", again, nothing in particular leads anyone to believe this would be a good description of this Pope. Urban VIII was "Lilium et rosa", so what leads us to apply that to that Pope? I can't think of anything but Urban's condemnation of Galileo for not publishing his work as an Hypothesis.
I believe these are spurious. I think they are indeed a pious forgery of the 16th Century. Prophecy and Apocalyptic pronunciations should not rank on the entertainment scale for a serious Catholic.
posted on 04/20/2005 6:12:25 AM PDT
("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
That means the next Pope is gonna be named Peter and will be the Antichrist.
Which poses a dilemma for us Jews who don't think the Messiah's made it yet.
posted on 04/20/2005 6:17:23 AM PDT
(Not Elected Pope Since 4/19/2005.)
Benedictines are not "also known as Olivetans." The entire basis for linking "Gloria olivae" to Benedictines is garbage, nonsense, stupidity. Saying that "Olivetans" is another name for "Benedictines" is like saying that another name for horses is Percherons.
Only thing is : Pope Benedict XVI is NOT a Benedictine himself! If the prophecy says that it will be from that Order, then the man has to have taken the Rule of Life vows from the Benedictine Order.
Suffice it to say, having spent time in a Benedictine monastery does NOT make him a Benedictine!
The prophecy is misinterpreted as far as this pope is concerned. The mere fact that he chose the name of the Father of Western monasticism does not make him a Benedictine either.
I am fast getting exasperated with this stuff.
posted on 04/20/2005 7:49:21 AM PDT
("Ah-ah," admonished Pippin. "Head, blade, dead." ~ Peregrin Took, The Falcon)
To: Pride in the USA; Stillwaters
The name Benedict seemed a strong signal on many levels. It was St. Benedict who was noted for his strong power against the devil -- this important at a time of heightened spiritual warfare -- and the order Benedict founded, the Benedictines, is also known as the "Olivetans." St. Benedict prophesied that the last pope would be from that order.
And it was allegedly St. Malachy of Ireland who prophesied that the Pope after John Paul II ("Labor of the sun") would be "Glory of the Olives."
Of possible interest to you ping.
posted on 04/20/2005 8:36:18 AM PDT
(Vast Right Wing Pajama Party)
I find this prophecy business interesting. And I think the article should have stated the oft-repeated contentions that Pope John Paul II displayed the glory of the Sun - his funeral was on the day of an eclipse, he travelled across the earth - everywhere the sun shines, and the brightness of the sun shown thru his personality, his love for others, and his spirit.
posted on 04/20/2005 10:39:39 AM PDT
(Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
I suspect the same the same claim would have been made regardless of who was elected.
posted on 04/20/2005 12:22:28 PM PDT
(A mindset is an antidote to logic.)
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