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Communiqué from the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X
DICI ^ | 19th April 2005 | His Excellency Bishop Bertnard Fellay

Posted on 04/20/2005 8:59:20 AM PDT by Tantumergo

In the name of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X, His Excellency Bishop Fellay, Superior General, welcomes the accession of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger to the Sovereign Pontificate. He sees there a gleam of hope that we may find a way out of the profound crisis which is shaking the Catholic Church, of which some aspects have been spoken of by the former Head for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and quite recently so in his preaching on the occasion of the Stations of the Cross on Good Friday.

His Excellency Bishop Fellay implores Our Lord Jesus Christ, Head of the Mystical Body, that the two-thousand-year-old Tradition of the Church, forgotten and mistreated during the last forty years, may regain its place during this Pontificate, and that the Traditional Holy Mass may be re-established in all its rights, without restrictions.

Finally, the Superior General assures the Successor of Peter, Benedict XVI, of his prayers and those of all the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X for the considerable task which awaits him in order to restore all things in Christ.

April 19, 2005

+Bernard Fellay

Superior General


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: fellay; pope; schism; sspx
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1 posted on 04/20/2005 8:59:24 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Pyro7480; murphE; jrny

As you were mentioning on another thread...


2 posted on 04/20/2005 9:00:32 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo
that the Traditional Holy Mass may be re-established in all its rights, without restrictions.

When you think just how easy it could be...
3 posted on 04/20/2005 9:03:44 AM PDT by te lucis (Our Lady is insulted. Let us go forth and fight! - Cristeros hymn)
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To: Tantumergo

Just a Question: Didn't the " Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" used to be called the Holy Office? ( about a century ago.)


4 posted on 04/20/2005 9:10:28 AM PDT by D Rider
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To: D Rider
Just a Question: Didn't the " Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" used to be called the Holy Office? ( about a century ago.)

Just answered my own question -- Yes, and before that it was called the "Sacred Congregation of the Universal Inquisition."

5 posted on 04/20/2005 9:14:04 AM PDT by D Rider
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To: te lucis; Canticle_of_Deborah; Gerard.P; vox_freedom; AAABEST; Grey Ghost; Wessex; rogator; ...
When you think just how easy it could be...

"The simplification of anything is always sensational." GK Chesterton

ping

6 posted on 04/20/2005 9:46:51 AM PDT by murphE (Never miss an opportunity to kiss the hand of a holy priest.)
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To: murphE

For him to say the True Mass publicly as Pope, the way he did many times as a Cardinal, would be great, but I realize we shouldn't hope for too much.


7 posted on 04/20/2005 9:54:24 AM PDT by te lucis (Our Lady is insulted. Let us go forth and fight! - Cristeros hymn)
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To: te lucis

Cautious optimism, I hate to be disappointed.


8 posted on 04/20/2005 10:01:02 AM PDT by murphE (Never miss an opportunity to kiss the hand of a holy priest.)
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To: murphE

Me too.


9 posted on 04/20/2005 10:24:43 AM PDT by HapaxLegamenon
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To: te lucis

>>[W]e shouldn't hope for too much.<<

What would constitute "too much?"

How about world peace forever, no more sickness, no more death, no more war.

(How's that for "too much?")

Keep in mind that Cardinal erstwhile Ratzinger was ordained in the Traditional Roman {Latin} Rite, had a thourough working knowledge of Latin in 1963, helped to write the documents of Vatican II and counseled (less scholarly) bishops there at the time as a peritus, has been celebrant for hundreds of Traditional Latin Masses on all occasions and of all levels of solemnity, and last but not least, has been personal witness to the worldwide decline of liturgical ambiance.

Do you think for a minute he is ignorant of the growing demand for Solemn High Pontifical Mass? (Or, that he somehow lacks the experience to celebrate one?)

How many times do you suppose, as a Cardinal, the man who is now Pope Benedict XVI closed the door and had a word with Pope John Paul II, imploring him to hold back on his plans for yet another wild innovation; only to be half-listened-to, and to receive only a partial satisfaction, and to be left feeling so impotent and hapless in the face of yet another step down from the majesty that could so easily be had by the Pope?

His greatest challenge now might be how to restrain himself from making too many adjustments too fast. But if he doesn't do SOMETHING significant real soon, he could die, and lose all chance to accomplish ANYTHING.

Basilicas of the world, be advised: make sure your tintinabulum and ombrellino are in working order and all cleaned up!

This is a pope that needs our prayers like none other among his predecessors.


10 posted on 04/20/2005 10:33:45 AM PDT by donbosco74 (Sancte Padre Pio, ora pro nobis, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.)
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To: donbosco74
This is a pope that needs our prayers like none other among his predecessors

Yes, pray that his food tasters and body guards are loyal, he has a lot of enemies.

11 posted on 04/20/2005 10:37:33 AM PDT by murphE (Never miss an opportunity to kiss the hand of a holy priest.)
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To: te lucis
the True Mass publicly as Pope

He did, every day, however, he didn't use the Tridentine rite, he used the normative Mass for the Church.
12 posted on 04/20/2005 10:41:18 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: murphE

The liberals on the news are beside themselves with anxiety. My wife has a friend at work who is so disappointed that women priests are more remote now than before. I have not bothered to check with what the "gay" activists are saying.

We should pray also for the Swiss Guard. It seems their job has just become a pinch more demanding.

Anyone have a form for a prayer for the Pontifical Food Taster?

Make that Pontifical Food Tasters! Martyrs-in-waiting!

Tonight it's bratwurst and saurkraut with German beer, in a symbolic unity with the Pope!


13 posted on 04/20/2005 10:46:43 AM PDT by donbosco74 (Sancte Padre Pio, ora pro nobis, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.)
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To: donbosco74
We should pray also for the Swiss Guard.

Hey, the Swiss Guard have to be men only. How come women are never screaming for their right to take a bullet for the pope?

14 posted on 04/20/2005 10:48:43 AM PDT by murphE (Never miss an opportunity to kiss the hand of a holy priest.)
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To: donbosco74; sempertrad; Grey Ghost II; murphE
What would constitute "too much?" How about world peace forever, no more sickness, no more death, no more war. (How's that for "too much?")

"Imagine all the people, sharing all the world?"

Makes for nice song lyrics, but they're not the primary concerns of the Pope.
15 posted on 04/20/2005 10:50:53 AM PDT by te lucis (Our Lady is insulted. Let us go forth and fight! - Cristeros hymn)
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To: donbosco74
I have not bothered to check with what the "gay" activists are saying.

I read they are beside themselves. Some articles are quoting no-longer-practicing Catholics and being "disappointed". One interesting group is the VOTF< a local VOTF person had nothing good to say about the new Pope. I get the idea a lot of CTA people just changed the alphabet soup to VOTF.
16 posted on 04/20/2005 10:52:27 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: murphE
Thanks for the thread. It's a somber reflection of reality.
17 posted on 04/20/2005 11:03:00 AM PDT by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Dominick

Won't it be quite quaint when the "normativa missa" are of two kinds rather than one?

What is going to happen to all the neoCon positivist Catholics? Will you follow and obey the Pope in lockstep, or stand groping, wondering what happened?

Pax Christi in Regno Christi! It is time for the restoration of Tradition!


18 posted on 04/20/2005 11:16:06 AM PDT by Mershon
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To: Mershon
I imagine there will be one Mass, and when I am told different, as we are taught by Authentic Catholic Tradition, I will enjoy the foretaste of Heaven whatever the form of its confection.

How can one compare the Body of Christ to the Body of Christ? Like I have said before, it isn't about the Mass anymore, in this particular case you allude to, it is a game where a schismatic group does not want its throne toppled. If anyone should come back to Rome, the management has changed, but the "store" is still under the same Owner.

The Pope is the Pope, and has the sole privilege of binding and loosing here and in Heaven. Where the problem is in that the schism is so deep some doubt the words of Christ himself.
19 posted on 04/20/2005 11:24:59 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick

Does the Pope have the right to try to destroy the faith?


20 posted on 04/20/2005 11:40:40 AM PDT by Gerard.P (If you've lost your faith, you don't know you've lost it. ---Fr. Malachi Martin R.I.P.)
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To: Gerard.P
You equate changing the form of the Mass as destroying the faith? What happened when the Mass changed from the Divine Liturgy to the Latin form? Was there an SSPI?

If comes down to Christ giving the Keys of the Kingdom to Peter, if you believe Christ, then you have to agree the Pope can change the form of the Rites of the Church.

Like I said, this isn't about the Mass anymore, it is about retaining power.
21 posted on 04/20/2005 11:49:04 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Tantumergo

Dear Bishop Fellay,

Don't call us, we'll call you.


Sincerely,
The Catholic Church


22 posted on 04/20/2005 11:51:24 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Dominick

Your words are reminding me of Jerry Brown. They called him "Governor Moonbeam."


23 posted on 04/20/2005 11:57:22 AM PDT by donbosco74 (Sancte Padre Pio, ora pro nobis, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Dear Bishop Fellay, Don't call us, we'll call you. Sincerely, The Catholic Church

How very un-ecumenical. Saint John Paul The Great labored unceasingly for the unification of all Christians. You disgrace his memory.
24 posted on 04/20/2005 11:57:22 AM PDT by te lucis (+Marcel Lefebvre: Santo! Santo! Santo!)
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To: Dominick

I really have no idea of what you are speaking. You obviously have not followed closely the public conversations between Ratzinger, Hoyos and Fellay & Co. Hoyos, after meeting with three of the four bishops, pronounced that he detected no heresy nor schismatic attitudes among them. Bet you haven't read that?

Also, being that Ratzinger demanded NOTHING from Lefebvre other than accepting Lumen Gentium 25, which is a repetition of Vatican I's papal infallibility, including the bishops, to what can you possibly be referring.

There are two Roman rites currently. The classical Roman rite, as Pope Benedict XVI calls it, will most likely be freed. Then, the fun will begin...

This is the least that can be done in light of all of the ecumenical gestures to every other Christian denomination and the inter-religious dialogue to every other religion, including animists. This reconciliation will also pave the way to better relations with the Orthodox, as many of them have been watching closely how Rome has treated the SSPX situation.

Be in denial if you want, but don't get washed out by the riptide that is about to hit you and many friends of mine similar to you. The positivist pontificates and the positivist councils are over. Stability and tradition are the buzzwords. Get used to it-- in all charity of course.


25 posted on 04/20/2005 12:00:38 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: donbosco74
Your words are reminding me of Jerry Brown. They called him "Governor Moonbeam."

Incomprehensible. Is this your response to authentic Catholicism?
26 posted on 04/20/2005 12:00:47 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Rutles4Ever

"Dear Bishop Fellay,

Don't call us, we'll call you."

The NeoCons who don't have a real clue about true ecumenism or our new Pope Benedict XVI. This reeling we are seeing here will even happen with many so-called "conservative" priests.

This will become extremely interesting...


27 posted on 04/20/2005 12:03:04 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: te lucis

I believe in ecumenism. I believe Pope Benedict will build a bridge, but you're going to have to cross it to get to him. John Paull II labored unceasingly, but after thirty years, the SSPX did what in response? Sounds like you want all the heavy-lifting and compromising to come from the Vatican. Not gonna happen.

The well-wishes of SSPX are conditional, not absolute. Come back into full communion with Rome as she is, not as you want her to be.


28 posted on 04/20/2005 12:09:31 PM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Mershon

Mershon -

If Rome declares the "normativa missa" of two kinds instead of one, I'll continue to obey the Magisterium.

I would love to see the Latin Mass restored as long as it's by decree of Rome.

Obedience to the Holy Father, above all.


29 posted on 04/20/2005 12:17:47 PM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Mershon
Hoyos, after meeting with three of the four bishops, pronounced that he detected no heresy nor schismatic attitudes among them. Bet you haven't read that?

I have, however, when asked by interested parties, the Vatican reply refers to the original statement of Ratzinger who used the words, "schismatic mentality", This has not and I don't suppose it would be withdrawn without a change in the SSPX. There are two Roman rites currently.

There are many Rites, there is one Latin rite of the Mass, if the Local Ordinary permits it, a second rite of the Mass, the Tridentine rite may be used, as stated in the Indult. These two orders of the Mass may not be mixed.

This is the least that can be done in light of all of the ecumenical gestures to every other Christian denomination and the inter-religious dialogue to every other religion, including animists.

I don't see where you get this, except to pepper the discussion. There have been no gestures currently underway. In fact the interfaith dialogs were not attended by Ratzinger, he was said to oppose them. No reaching out to animists was ever done, as it were to the Orthodox. Animism is not Sui Juris.

Be in denial if you want, but don't get washed out by the riptide that is about to hit you and many friends of mine similar to you.

I am not in denial at all. If Pope Benedict asks us to return to the 1562 missal, my response is no different. I want to follow Christ, and take a bite out of his Body. I show my obedience to God, by my obedience to the Vicar of Christ. For the sake of Christ, who gave him the authority over the Church, I will obey. Have you read "Imitation of Christ" lately?

I keep repeating myself, this isn't about the Mass. How about if Fellay was ordered to conduct a Mass in the Novus Ordo, as Lefebvre had done? Even if he did, I imagine Fellay will lose the pointy hat, for that reason, Fellay may never rejoin the Church. Would you be in denial of the Vicar of Christ's authority?

I accused the SSPX in particular of being comprised of cafeteria Catholics. I also had said in particular, it was suffering from modernism, where it thinks that each member can follow Fellay as he picks and chooses what part of Catholicism he can take into the SSPX.
30 posted on 04/20/2005 12:18:49 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Sounds like you want all the heavy-lifting and compromising to come from the Vatican.

Freeing something that has never been abrogated hardly seems like a compromise to me, but yes. Rome screwed it all up, they should be the first to offer to fix it.

Not gonna happen.

Not holding my breath.

Come back into full communion with Rome as she is, not as you want her to be.

I am in full communion with Rome, as she's supposed to be.
31 posted on 04/20/2005 12:26:04 PM PDT by te lucis (+Marcel Lefebvre: Santo! Santo! Santo!)
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To: Rutles4Ever

"Obedience to the Holy Father, above all."

When the Holy Father is obedient to Tradition and immemorial custom. With Benedict XVI, I am quite certain there will be little problem with that.

Pope Benedict XVI has even written that no Pope has the authority to radically change the Sacred Liturgy. He is bound to hand on what he is given. This is his chief duty as Pope. Extremes from the previous pontificate will be rectified.


32 posted on 04/20/2005 12:31:33 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: Dominick

"there is one Latin rite of the Mass, if the Local Ordinary permits it, a second rite of the Mass"

Now that makes a lot of sense. Keep saying it over and over and over again... What?

"No reaching out to animists was ever done, as it were to the Orthodox. Animism is not Sui Juris."

The Great Thumb, by invitation of Pope John Paul II, was worshipped and prayed to by its adherents at both of the Assisi gatherings.

"Have you read "Imitation of Christ" lately?"

If you have a specific charge of heresy or schism against me, I would be grateful for you to point it out. However, I have a regular confessor and regular spiritual reading. Yes, I have read this book and many others. Don't beat around the bush with a subtle accusation against humility or whatever you seem to be implying. Please be direct.

"I accused the SSPX in particular of being comprised of cafeteria Catholics. I also had said in particular, it was suffering from modernism, where it thinks that each member can follow Fellay as he picks and chooses what part of Catholicism he can take into the SSPX."

Does this go for the entirety of all the priests, bishops and laity who attend their chapels? The Church has never made such a bold, nor erroneous pronouncement. It seems you are going farther in judging 1 million people than the Church has done. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your opinion and re-align it with the Church.





33 posted on 04/20/2005 12:40:07 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: Dominick

Well I went back and read it again and to be honest, I don't have the time or energy to take each sentence in order. I think we should wait until tomorrow and look at it again, if that's okay with you?


34 posted on 04/20/2005 12:44:57 PM PDT by donbosco74 (Sancte Padre Pio, ora pro nobis, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.)
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To: Mershon
The Great Thumb, by invitation of Pope John Paul II, was worshipped and prayed to by its adherents at both of the Assisi gatherings.

No proof was ever given, no article, no writing from someone who was there, but you and others have made the charge liberally. The second Assisi gathering was attended by Ratzinger, and as I understand from FIRSTHAND reports, no prayer was entered there. In any case, they worshipped the great thumb from a thousand miles away?

If you have a specific charge of heresy or schism against me, I would be grateful for you to point it out.

We were not discussing you, I was saying, that one thing that sticks to me is how obedience to God is expressed by self immolation of our own will to his, and by extension to his Church and his Vicar. Christ did not say I give you the Keys to the Kingdom with caveats, he gave them to him, and he has passed them down through generations; today to Pope Benedict.
35 posted on 04/20/2005 12:47:37 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Gerard.P

One late, scholarly cleric said that it is not liturgies but dogma that is the real bone of contention.

We could argue until the cows come home all around liturgy, and get nowhere.

But start at the beginning with dogma, and address concerns over particular points of same, and much profit is in the offing.

The problem is to get the right people to sit down and have an honest discussion of dogma that has been under attack lately. This is the key issue. It's not liturgy, it's dogma. Pope Benedict XVI is aware of this problem. He might not go so far as to open the door to such a discussion, but I think he might give the impression that he is considering the possibility.

If he takes this step, we can expect nothing but great fruits. I would put no limits on the benefits thereof.


36 posted on 04/20/2005 12:56:59 PM PDT by donbosco74 (Sancte Padre Pio, ora pro nobis, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.)
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To: donbosco74

You want to consider if I resemble Jerry Brown? Take a cheap shot and leave?


37 posted on 04/20/2005 1:02:12 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Mershon
The classical Roman rite, as Pope Benedict XVI calls it, will most likely be freed.

I don't even want to say it out loud lest it not be true.

38 posted on 04/20/2005 1:02:22 PM PDT by murphE (Never miss an opportunity to kiss the hand of a holy priest.)
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To: Mershon
The Great Thumb, by invitation of Pope John Paul II, was worshipped and prayed to by its adherents at both of the Assisi gatherings.

I think that the "Great Thumb" is actually an honorific title for the animist Supreme God, according to this site: These prayers for peace were offered in Assisi, Italy on the Day of Prayer for World Peace during the U.N. International Year of Peace in 1986.

A NATIVE AFRICAN PRAYER FOR PEACE Almighty God, the Great Thumb we cannot evade to tie any knot, the Roaring Thunder that splits mighty trees, the all-seeing Lord on high who sees even the foot prints of an antelope on a rock mass here on Earth, you are the one who does not hesitate to respond to our call. You are the cornerstone of peace.

That's an interesting site; there don't actually seem to have been any prayers directed to a being who is not conceived of as eternal, supreme, omnipotent, etc. However, there are some "prayers" which don't seem to be prayers at all, e.g. the Buddhist one, the Baha'i one...

39 posted on 04/20/2005 1:11:17 PM PDT by gbcdoj (And the light shineth in darkness: and the darkness did not comprehend it. ~ John 1:5)
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To: gbcdoj
I think that the "Great Thumb" is actually an honorific title for the animist Supreme God,

Oh, so that makes it OK. Not. Aw, c'mon, just when I was beginning to like you. ;-)

40 posted on 04/20/2005 1:15:14 PM PDT by murphE (Never miss an opportunity to kiss the hand of a holy priest.)
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To: Dominick

The second Assisi gathering, they took down all the crucifixes and Christian sacramentals from the monastery/convent, and had each religion desecrate the sacred space by entering into it and praying to their false gods separately. This was covered extensively by Christopher Ferrara, who was an eyewitness.

The second Assisi gathering, they differentiated that they prayed to their gods at the same time, but not TOGETHER. This was the distinguishing characteristic from the first one from a FIRSTHAND report. The first Assisi gathering had the Buddhists put Buddha on top of the tabernacle. Interestingly, a few years later, an earthquake split the place into pieces. But nobody wants to talk about that. No sirreee...

In any event, Pope Benedict XVI agrees these events were imprudent at best.


41 posted on 04/20/2005 1:27:11 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: gbcdoj
Almighty God, the Great Thumb we cannot evade to tie any knot




Oh, my achin' thumb.
42 posted on 04/20/2005 1:27:26 PM PDT by te lucis (+Marcel Lefebvre: Santo! Santo! Santo!)
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To: Dominick

"We were not discussing you, I was saying, that one thing that sticks to me is how obedience to God is expressed by self immolation of our own will to his, and by extension to his Church and his Vicar. Christ did not say I give you the Keys to the Kingdom with caveats, he gave them to him, and he has passed them down through generations; today to Pope Benedict."

Absolutely. Agreed. And like John Paul II, in matters of faith and morals to which I am bound, I submit my will to his authority AND to the deposit of Faith. Amen, brother... So again, what is your charge or insinuation?


43 posted on 04/20/2005 1:29:16 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: Mershon

I have never seen a firsthand report for the First Assisi gathering. links please?


44 posted on 04/20/2005 1:30:00 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: gbcdoj


Rule of Thumb?
45 posted on 04/20/2005 1:31:52 PM PDT by te lucis (+Marcel Lefebvre: Santo! Santo! Santo!)
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To: Mershon
they took down all the crucifixes and Christian sacramentals...

As if all of those things were impediments or stumbling blocks. I felt really wounded by that.

46 posted on 04/20/2005 1:34:31 PM PDT by AlbionGirl (May the Lord guide your steps Pope Benedict, and may he grant you loyal and honest advisors.)
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To: murphE

When I first heard about the prayers to the "Great Thumb", I was under the impression that it was actually some imagined corporeal thumb that was being prayed to. How come we always hear about the animists praying to the "Great Thumb" and not to "Almighty God" or the "all-seeing Lord"? I can't help but think that a false intention is being spread unintentionally.

On a side note, if you look at JPII's allocutions at Assisi, he seems to be under the impression that all the different religious leaders intended to pray to God. Check out the Buddhist "prayer". That's not even a prayer; why would he even invite them? Buddhists don't believe in any God, or in anything. How could they even pray?


47 posted on 04/20/2005 1:41:33 PM PDT by gbcdoj (And the light shineth in darkness: and the darkness did not comprehend it. ~ John 1:5)
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To: Dominick

Pope Benedict doesn't sound thrilled with the N.O. -

--

In the July 2001 conference on the Liturgy at Fontgombault, Ratzinger said the following:

“A sizeable party of Catholic liturgists seems to have practically arrived at the conclusion that Luther, rather than Trent, was substantially right in the sixteenth century debate”, and added: “one can detect much the same position in the post-conciliar discussions on the priesthood.” He referred to Luther’s opinion that it is, “the most appalling horror and a damnable impiety to speak of the sacrifice of the Mass”. The Cardinal then said the following:
"It is only against this background of the effective denial of the authority of Trent, that the bitterness of the struggle against allowing the celebration of Mass according to the 1962 Missal, after the liturgical reform, can be understood. The possibility of so celebrating constitutes the strongest, and thus (for them) the most intolerable contradiction of the opinion of those who believe that the faith in the Eucharist formulated by Trent has lost its value."

"The serious nature of these theories comes from the fact that frequently they pass immediately into practice. The thesis according to which it is the community itself which is the subject of the Liturgy, serves as an authorisation to manipulate the Liturgy according to each individual’s understanding of it. So-called new discoveries and the forms which follow from them, are diffused with an astonishing rapidity and with a degree of conformity which has long ceased to exist where the norms of ecclesiastical authority are concerned. Theories, in the area of the Liturgy, are transformed rapidly today into practice, and practice, in turn, creates or destroys ways of behaving and thinking."

The Cardinal insisted that this is an intolerable situation: "One thing should be clear: the Liturgy must not be a terrain for experimenting with theological hypotheses. Too rapidly, in these last decades, the ideas of experts have entered into liturgical practice, often also by-passing ecclesiastical authority, through the channel of commissions which have been able to diffuse at an international level their 'consensus of the moment', and practically turn it into laws for liturgical activity. The Liturgy derives its greatness from what it is, not from what we make of it. Our participation is, of course, necessary, but as a means of inserting ourselves humbly into the spirit of the Liturgy, and of serving Him Who is the true subject of the Liturgy: Jesus Christ. The Liturgy is not an expression of the consciousness of a community which, in any case, is diffuse and changing. It is revelation received in faith ind prayer, and its measure is consequently the faith of the Church, in which revelation is received."


48 posted on 04/20/2005 1:48:58 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
That's not precisely talking about the N.O., but rather about the corruption of the N.O.
An average Christian without specialist liturgical formation would find it difficult to distinguish between a Mass sung in Latin according to the old Missal and a sung Latin Mass according to the new Missal. However, the difference between a liturgy celebrated faithfully according to the Missal of Paul VI and the reality of a vernacular liturgy celebrated with all the freedom and creativity that are possible - that difference can be enormous. - Cardinal Ratzinger, Address for the 10th Anniversary of "Ecclesia Dei", 24 October 1998

49 posted on 04/20/2005 1:59:53 PM PDT by gbcdoj (And the light shineth in darkness: and the darkness did not comprehend it. ~ John 1:5)
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To: Rutles4Ever

Dear Rutless,

Pope Benedict overturned the fraudulent excommunications of the SSPX Hawaii six. He doesn't view them as schismatic.

He's probably calling them right now to cut a deal.

I hope you will be obedient to the Holy Father. I read right here that people who are disobedient are schismatic.

We will pray for you.


50 posted on 04/20/2005 2:00:00 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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