Posted on 04/23/2005 12:35:40 AM PDT by Aristotle721
We were at the zoo. Every few months our parish staff tries to do something just for fun. When you spend a good portion of your time together talking about who’s dying and who’s dead its important to go outside and play once in while. So, we were at the zoo. We had admired the tiger and the elephants, applauded the sea lion’s tricks, wondered at the wolves and were on our way through the reptile house talking about where we wanted to go for lunch when we got the call. Our secretary’s son called to tell us the smoke was white.
“There’s a new pope.” We looked at each other nervously. “Ratzinger” he said.
“Are you sure?” his mother questioned.
“Yes, Ratzinger is the new pope.”
We just stood there in disbelief. I turned to the pastor and asked “This is a drinking lunch right?”
“I think it’ll have to be.” he told me.
“Maybe he’ll surprise us.” offered the music director. “This is a new role” suggested the Pastoral Associate, “maybe the office will change his outlook.” “We should trust in the Holy Spirit” mused another colleague.
We got to lunch. I ordered a beer and started drinking. My cell phone was ringing like nuts-my sister, a youth minister friend, my husband- that one I answered. “He’s chosen the name Benedict.” my husband said, “The last Benedict stopped the anti-modernist witch-hunts and spoke out against World War I”. I interrupted the ordering of appetizers to share this good news with my colleagues. The pastor shook his head, “Wishful thinking.” the gesture seemed to say.
It was the thing that all of us feared but were sure was outside the realm of possibility; the archconservative gets elected. (“Hah! Anybody but Ratzinger, or that Opus Dei guy.” I recall commenting.) “The cardinals know better,” we thought, “they realize the need for a moderate.” We of course would prefer a liberal pope, maybe the guy from Brazil, or Belgium to swing the pendulum back a bit, but a moderate would do fine for the time being. The church needs to heal and centrists bring unity.
A teenager asked me shortly before John Paul’s death “What difference does it make who the Pope is anyway?” Excellent question. Catholics are still Catholics; the mass is still the mass, regardless of who’s sitting in Peter’s Chair.
Her question reminded me though, of so many of the things I have to forget if I’m going to continue working for the church. I can’t think every time I go into a staff meeting, of the changes I’ve seen since I began in ministry. I choose not to recall the vibrant diocese I was hired into in 1987, bursting with the excitement of lay ministry and lay leadership. My first boss, Fr. Bill Trott who was sure the priest shortage was the work of the Holy Spirit “The leadership of the laity will only come to full fruit when the priests are the mystics of the community.” he would tell me. I was new enough not to understand what it meant that as I was learning the ropes of youth ministry our local hero Fr. Charlie Curran, a professor at Catholic University of America in Washington, was being removed from his teaching position under pressure from the Vatican.
I remained hopeful as I served on our Diocesan Women’s Commission and reviewed draft after draft of the ill-fated American Bishop’s Pastoral letter on Women in the Church and Society that made the not so radical statements that sexism is a sin. Too radical for this church we learned when our Bishop returned from Rome.
It would be impossible to stay if I thought of the way the Vatican clean-up crews made their way from diocese to diocese, how I’d seen friends removed from their teaching positions at seminaries, course titles changed because they sounded too liberal, dynamic theologians suddenly unwilling to offer notes of their talks because they’d been reported to Rome one too many times for raising the “wrong” questions, and hopes of forward movement in the church dashed as more and more conservatives were elevated to Bishop. I can’t stay and still think of how one of our most vibrant city parishes, on fire with the Gospel, was lost to the crack-down on liberal dioceses.
Should I stay or should I go is a question that has occured to me on a fairly regular basis, but there has always been the thought that with new leadership our hopes, my hopes, for a forward-moving church would be restored. I have been able to rationalize, in spite of my disgust with Catholic right-wing maligning of feminists, gays and lesbians, and immigrants, by hanging on to the idea that it can’t last. Right?
I don’t think I’m the only one whose been biding her time. I’ve been (fairly) quiet on the issues that Ratzinger called for silence on- the ordination of women to the priesthood, birth control to name a few- but I think that time has come to a close. I’m tired of not talking about important things- sexuality, power, who is allowed to do what and who gets to say so. I’m tired of working and worshipping in an environment of fear and mistrust. I’m NOT leaving and I’m NOT going to be quiet.
We’ve got a new pope, he’s the guy that brought us loyalty oaths and silenced countless theologians. He’s the man South African Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu called a "rigid conservative" out of step with the times, whose name has been synonymous will Roman power and authoritarian rule. Maybe he will surprise us. In the meantime, anybody need a drink?
Nora Bradbury-Haehl writes from Rochester, NY.
Ping.
"Should I stay or should I go is a question that has occured to me on a fairly regular basis"
You should go. Find a religion that caters to the whims of public opinion and society, instead of banging your head against the wall of Catholicism's moral foundation.
I guess I knew they were out there but most of the ones I have met are more sly and clever I guess.
"It would be impossible to stay if I thought of the way the Vatican clean-up crews made their way from diocese to diocese, how I’d seen friends removed from their teaching positions at seminaries, course titles changed because they sounded too liberal, dynamic theologians suddenly unwilling to offer notes of their talks because they’d been reported to Rome one too many times for raising the “wrong” questions, and hopes of forward movement in the church dashed as more and more conservatives were elevated to Bishop. I can’t stay and still think of how one of our most vibrant city parishes, on fire with the Gospel, was lost to the crack-down on liberal dioceses."
When the heck did any of this stuff happen?
I myself would love for the new Pope to live up to such a description as this. Throw the liturgy changers out of the temple, re-instate that Latin Mass at every single church (as a choice, OK, just as a choice, not as an indult, which I assume means indulgence) and of course sweep the homosexual mafia out of power in the American church.
And if that makes the drunkard who wrote this piece unhappy, well, that would only add to my joy.
Don't be suprised. In this diocese there are priests that make this guy look orthodox.
Besides, "blatantly ignorant and stupid" is not the case at all. These folks know exactly what they are doing.
Out here in Arizona,believe it or not,the dissidents are really much more nuanced than this babe or bozo.
Yeah, this guy is really 100% out in the open. Sort of "out of the closet", I guess. Nasty.
I thought this was a joke at first. Sadly, I take it "Nora" is a real creature. Would that it were not so.
Yup, she's real.
I like your tagline a lot, btw.
I was visiting at a Catholic mass last night, and the priest said "Many are not happy with the new Pope. Should we have elected an Anglican?"
Attention all dissidents...now boarding Track 1 is the express to excommunication...
Shockingly ;-), the Paulist's, who run 'bustedhalo.com' are the very same Paulists who run the quasi-Catholic parish which John Kerry attends in Boston, Ma.
Too bad this disenchanted and non-dialogueing and intolerant woman obviously missed this weeks 'Life on the Rock' program where many young people 'on the street' were interviewed in Rome about the election of Benedict XVI - these kids are on fire for the Faith and their optimism and hope are inspirational. They are the future of the Church whereas these 'bustedhalo' people are the future 'Call to Action' folks.
This is exactly the kind of reaction shown by my parish's DRE.
I thought she was going to burst a vessel last week when PB XVI was announced. She was VERY upset and angry.
Have to admit...if it mader HER unhappy, it made ME very happy indeed.
Regards,
Also, this lady is in for a rude awakening. The young people going to Church today are not that concerned with women priests or birth control. Maybe they think both should be allowed (thanks mostly to teachers like her), but they just don't get all fired up about it. And as many of them mature in their faith they realize that these things will never be allowed and they will eventually accept, if not embrace the concepts.
Also, I like the way this gal throws in immigrants with gays and lesbians. Yeah right, the Church has really come down hard on those immigrants. What sinful tendencies they have!
There's going to be the head of the Church who will rule with a rod of iron for a thousand years. Something to think about...
>>I turned to the pastor and asked “This is a drinking lunch right?”
“I think it’ll have to be.” he told me.<<
Turning to booze instead of turning to the Lord.
Blaming your woes on a man, rahter than laying your cares at the foot of the throne of Jesus.
Expecting mere mortals to comprise and validate your faith (or lack thereof).
Laying the foundation of your faith on human beings, rahter than on the precious blood of Christ.
This would be funny if it weren't so freakin' sad.
There are 4 divine establishments, volition, marriage, family, and government(nationality).
Those who rebel from God's plan for man, first step into sin and lose out on His blessings to live by the way He has created for them. That is grieving the Holy Spirit. Those who he loves he disciplines, but while respecting volition, should we continue to disobey, we fall into either moral or immoral degeneracy.
When the believer steps further than simply grieving the Holy Spirit, but begins to antagonistically attack God and His plan, he quenches the Holy Spirit.
There does exist a sin unto death, or face to face with death, where the believer no longer serves any useful purpose in the foreknown creation.
I always find it interesting to note how those who rebel from God, also happen to display arrogance in the form of rebellion to legitimate authority.
Likewise, if we find ourselves tempted to rebel from legitimate authority in volition, marriage, family or government, we also find some degree of arrogance in our thinking which has replaced God's policy of grace, with a counterfeit plan placing our selves and/or our thinking prior to Him.
Notice how in this situation, the author bodaciously brags about rebelling and remaining in the church. This open defiance of authority is only justifiable if the rebel is first remianing faithful in the spirit to God by respecting legitimate authority of the institutions God has created. The author has already expressed a rebellion to marriage, to family, and now to the government within the church.
The natural progression of reverting from God's plan allows for the rebellious author to further backslide, symptomatically manifest by imposing either totalitarian laws via legalism or by criminality in promoting lasciviousness. Those are simply consequences of living outside of God's plan.
I hadn;t noticed that immediately,...Interesting to note that her immediate response was to rebel from God's first divine establishment of volition......she wanted to get drunk so she wouldn't have to exercise volition..
My advice,...Nora has pulled the pin on the arrogance grenade and its simply a matter of time before she fragments her life and might harm innocent bystanders. Simply avoid her and separate her from others.
She'll make a good Episcopalian. They have a crucifix with "Christa" on it hanging in their cathedral in NYC. That should warm the cold stone of her feminist heart! I'm confident we won't have to deal with her in Orthodoxy.
I am not Catholic. I do not accept the Papacy as an institution - nothing to do with individuals who become Popes - but I understand what it stands for.
This woman is not a Catholic at heart. She is way too secular and political in her thinking. She is so "this-worldy" and not "other worldly" in mind. In her mind, the Catholic church and even the Papacy is to be shaped and molded by HER AND HER ILK - regardless what the institution has stood for throughout the ages under many Popes or what the Catholic church takes from Scripture.
What IS this woman's guiding star? Well, exactly what this Pope and the late Pope have said...it seems all about HER OWN PERSONAL DESIRES AND EGO, AND THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH OR STANDARD BEYOND THESE. And Scripture itself tells us about people of this nature...
"Yet in like manner these also in their dreamings defile the flesh, and set at nought dominion, and rail at dignities. But Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing judgment, but said, 'The Lord rebuke thee'. But these rail at whasoever things they know not: and what they understand naturally, like the creatures without reason, in these things are they destroyed. Woe unto them, for they went in the way of Cain, and ran riotously in the error of Balaam, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah. These are they who are hidden rocks in your love-feasts, shepherds that without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by wind; autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved forever."
- Jude verses 8-13 -
I am talking about an attitude here, rather than making eternal judgments against specific individuals. Only God Himself can do that.
And the issue is much, much broader than the internal workings or the external image of the Catholic church. Obviously it is in my thinking, since, as I said, I am not Catholic and do not accept the Papacy.
I am glad that I don't have her mindset.
I think you've summed it up. "Liberal" Catholics have spent years building the First Church of Me. How can this woman "stay" in the Catholic Church when it sounds like she's never been a part of it anyway?
Aw, now that song by the Clash is going to be stuck in my head..."This indecision is bugging me, if you don't want me set me free..." ;-)
I live in Rochester, and this attitude prevails here. I have a decent priest though, who would not be afraid to dress down this impudent mole, should she speak up.
Well, now you made me think of that other Clash song. I'd like to Rock her Casbah, and drop the bombs between the minarets of this lady's mind.
My first boss, Fr. Bill Trott who was sure the priest shortage was the work of the Holy Spirit “The leadership of the laity will only come to full fruit when the priests are the mystics of the community.”
These guys simply are not Catholic.
if this woman were a little more intelligent, she'd realize that she's disgusting.
She wanted a "the guy" from Brazil, where a Hugo Chavez clone is helping to spread communism throughout South America, or "the guy" from Belgium, where you can walk into your local drug store and buy a do-it-yourself suicide kit. Pretty much says it all, doesn't it?
Then you need to be FIRED. Under JPII, people like this just went their merry "I'm a practicing Catholic but" way. Under Benedict XVI, they may be in for a surprise.
I don't understand. The Holy Spirit moves the cardinals to choose a new Pope. He chose a conservative man that will help keep His Truths intact. Liberals, instead of looking inward at their souls, look for a way out. Denial. You'd think after awhile they'd begin to question why it isn't going their way. Maybe God has other plans and they are wrong? Maybe? I hope it eventually breaks through to them. I really truly do want everyone to see the Truth. It's not always easy to accept. It can be difficult to live your life according to God's plan instead of your own.
The loyalty oaths are ignored by many "Catholic" theologians (along with the necessity for a mandatum). The CDF under Ratzinger has disciplined only a handful of theologians, not countless, and no, they haven't been burned at the stake in autos da fe, but simply told they cannot hold themselves out to be Catholic theologians. As for Archbishop Tutu, he is not even Catholic. If you would prefer an Episcopalian to be Pope, go become an Episcopalian and leave the Catholic Church to those who believe in her teachings. It is that simple.
Does that mean she used to be "in communion" with the Church, but now she's not?
Is there potentially a new schism, and roles have been reversed?
If you leave, you are always welcome to come back home to the Catholic Church.
One, holy, Catholic, apostolic
I suspect she is only a few thoughts away from believing a label of 'b*tch' would be a complement, thereby identifying with the colloquial definition of the term.
I would like to invite Nora to STFU!
Pope St. Pius X's Syllabus of Errors (Lamentabile Sane, July, 1907) and his encyclical Pascendi Domenici Gregis (August, 1907) are the high point of the papacy of recent centuries, attacking Modernism as the synthesis of all heresies. It is Modernism from which we are suffering because that World War I Pope Benedict XV was apparently intellectually or socially embarassed over Pope St. Pius X's wisdom and zeal. Benedict of World War I was also too busy persecuting Merry Cardinal del Valle to be bothered with suppressing heresy or to be bothered following in the distinguished footsteps of Pius X. We have had the followers of the excommunicated George Tyrell, SJ, burrowing as termites in the structure of the Church since the World war I Benedict took office. B-16 should reinstate Pius X's program against the Modernists ASAP and carry it out with all deliberate speed and rigor.
After a long-needed purge to take the ecclesiastical scalps of those currently running such dioceses and archdioceses as Rochester, Los Angeles, Fort Worth, Baltimore, DC, Seattle, San Francisco, Palm Beach, Johnstown-Altoona, Atlanta, and other current bastions of AmChurch and their enthusiastic clerical and lay co-conspirators, how long, O Lord, will it be before those places are cleansed so as to be reliable and safe for the practice of actual Catholicism. Of course that list is by no means exclusive. There are many more where they came from.
If not B-16, who? If not now, when? Let the tanks roll, Panzerpapa! It is for such purposes that papal authority exists.
Crappy choice of heroes. I knew this guy was a heretic before I even converted to the RC Church.
If Ratziner does what he should do, this self-absorbed modernist feminazi Catholic woman won't have to leave the Church--she'll be thrown out!
It's like a kid who is whining because his mother won't let him eat ice cream for dinner - they demand that the church affirm their depravities.
As a Protestant, I can tell you that we don't want her type in our churches either. We've got too many of them too.
The liturgists, the catechists, the church architects, the academic theologians, the diocesan bureaucrats, the church music publishers, that's where the trouble lies. The worst sin most of the bishops committed was to let these folks infiltrate the church, occupy positions of influence, miseducate our children, and trivialize the liturgy.
These folks all heard Gramsci's advice about seizing the levers of power back around 1968, and that's just what they did. They take salaries paid for by church donations to corrupt the Church.
After a long-needed purge to take the ecclesiastical scalps of those currently running such dioceses and archdioceses as Rochester, Los Angeles, Fort Worth, Baltimore, DC, Seattle, San Francisco, Palm Beach, Johnstown-Altoona, Atlanta, and other current bastions of AmChurch and their enthusiastic clerical and lay co-conspirators, how long, O Lord, will it be before those places are cleansed so as to be reliable and safe for the practice of actual Catholicism.
*****
Right on! My first remark when I heard Ratzinger was elected Pope was, "Thank you, Lord! It's time to take out the trash, and this man will do it!!"
My sympathy on your afflictions.
You saw it here on FR first:
"Every time a liberal squeals, an angel gets his wings!"
You gotta admit, this is a heckuva way to legitimize dope-smoking.
If they can't take control of the establishment they will do as much damage as they can on the way out. Can you say AmChurch schism? It is a likely last resort.
I think the Episcopal Church is tailored to your wants.
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