Posted on 05/11/2005 10:04:08 AM PDT by NYer
See post #4.
Just because a person is a saint doesn't mean the Church accepts their writings 100%.
St. Anselm
I believe you. But the sheer volume of similar quotes is kind of hard to overlook.
Page 1 of quotes from Catholic divines about Mary
I believe the above site is run by a Traditionalist Catholic.
So, a person can teach false things and still be considered a saint?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with deep devotion to Mary. After all, Jesus was deeply devoted to His Mother. And the world just mourned the passing of a remarkable Christian, whose motto, "Totus Tuus" ("All yours"), was a reference to his devotion to Mary.
What about a Pope's writings? Isn't it true that a Pope CANNOT err when it comes to faith and morals?
Would what constitutes the means of salvation fall in the "faith" category?
Neither of those statements are false on their face. However, they can blow out of proportion, like several Protestant websites/sources have done.
I just learned that the Mormons have a Heavenly Mother! How very similar Heavenly Mother ~ Queen of Heaven ~ Mother of God. What's really noticable is that they call this doctrine "sacred" to the point of not really wanting to talk about it. You have to pry to learn they even hold such doctrines. Also, it's totally apart from the bible, just like Marianism. And what's also funny is they can hold this and still complain about the trinity and say "Where in the bible is the mention of trinity". What similarities you all have, and how frustrating to me.
When teaching authoritatively, the Pope is infallible in manners of faith and morals. This has been done only a handful of times in Church history.
How deep are you willing to go?
-St. Bernard
How do you know when the Pope is teaching "authoritatively" and when he is not?
This has been done only a handful of times in Church history.
Ok, can you point me to those times?
She obtained the salvation of everyone by indirect means. She accepted God's wishes to be His Mother. Jesus achieved our salvation by His Life, Death, and Resurrection.
It is a matter of formulation. For example, the declaration during Pope John Paul II's papacy that stated that men can only become priests made it clear that this teaching was infallible. Other examples of the Pope using this authority was the declaration of Mary's Immaculate Conception in 1854, and the declaration of Mary's Assumption, body and soul, into heaven during Pope Pius XII's papacy.
How come you guys seem to have a better list of marion quotes than most average joe Catholics do?Between you and biblewonk, my awareness of the scope of marion devotion throughout the history of the Church is ever enriched. Thanks!
Thanks for the info Pyro7480!
Is there a list somewhere of the actual documents that are authoritative? (And please don't say "Catechism" ;^) )
Peter (and for purposes of this discussion it is irrelevant if he was Pope, as we can all agree he was an Apostle and wrote portions of the Bible) said the following about Holy Scripture and made particular mention of Paul's writings:
15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:15-16 (Quoted from the KJV so as to avoid any questions about this being a "Catholic" viewpoint)
According to Mormon teaching, at one point in the eternities past, this man-become-God, or "Heavenly Father," begat the spirit body of his first son. Together with his heavenly wife, the Father raised his son in the council of the gods.
Before the creation of this world, Jesus Christ presented to his father a plan of salvation which would enable the billions of future human beings the opportunity of passing through mortality and returning to heaven, there to become gods of their own worlds. At the same time, another son of the Heavenly Father and brother of Christ offered a competing plan. When Christ’s was chosen, the rejected Lucifer led a rebellion of one-third of the population of the heavens and was cast out.
In time, Mormons believe, the Heavenly Father came to earth and had physical, sexual intercourse with the Virgin Mary. Rejecting both the testimony of Scripture (Luke 1:34-35) and the constant teaching of the Christian Church, Mormons believe Christ was conceived by the Father, and not by the Holy Spirit. (Journal of Discourses 2:268.)
Moreover, Mormons teach that Christ is a secondary, inferior god. He does not exist from all eternity. (Nor, for that matter, does his Father.) He was first made by a union of his heavenly parents. After having been reared and taught in the heavens, he achieved a certain divine stature. Through carnal relations with her Heavenly Father, the Virgin became pregnant with this lesser god.
There is no comparison whatsoever ...
I got 'em as part of my initiation ceremony into the Baptist church I joined. ;^)
Between you and biblewonk, my awareness of the scope of marion devotion throughout the history of the Church is ever enriched. Thanks!
You're welcome conservonator. Don't forget to check the link in post #24. There must be over 500 similar quotes on that website.
These quotes have greatly increased MY awareness as well.
-Pope Pius XII
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