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The use of the Cathedral by other faiths
TidingsOnline ^ | 06/10/05 | Rt. Rev. Alexei Smith

Posted on 06/23/2005 2:52:16 PM PDT by murphE

The cornerstone of Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral boldly proclaims, in the words of the Prophet Isaiah, "My House Shall Be a House of Prayer for All Peoples." We enflesh those words in number of ways.

Since its dedication, an innumerable number of interfaith prayer services have been held in our Cathedral. Last month for example, representatives of the Armenian, Evangelical Christian, Baha'i, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, Evangelical Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, United Church of Christ, Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox Faiths lead a large congregation of diverse people in an Interfaith Prayer Service commemorating the life of our Late Pope, John Paul II.

Earlier this week, as part of the seventh International Conference on Buddhist Christian Dialogue, representatives of various Buddhist traditions and Catholic, Southern Baptist, and Episcopal clergy gathered in the Cathedral to conduct a Buddhist Christian Prayer Service. An Interfaith Prayer Service is currently being planned to be held at the Cathedral prior to the upcoming inauguration of our new mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa.

In addition to such services, the Cathedral has hosted a number of sacred music events, such as choral presentations, organ recitals and performances, reflecting the diversity of faith found in our city. An Interreligious art exhibit, Passion and Passover, recently graced the walls of the side chapels of the Cathedral, featuring the works of Jewish and Christian artists.

The Cathedral has also been made available to members of other faiths in times of civic tragedy, such as the recent funeral for a member of the Airport Police Department who was so tragically killed in an act of violence: a non-Catholic, his funeral service was conducted by a Baptist Minister.

Occasionally we are asked by a single denomination to use the Cathedral. Our Guidelines for the Ecumenical and Interreligious Use of the Cathedral specifically state: "If a particular denomination is celebrating a special moment in its life and history, then the Cathedral may be available for Prayer Services, Vespers or other non-sacramental celebrations" [III.A].

The Guidelines further state: "The use of the Cathedral's altars is reserved for the celebration of the Eucharist by Catholic priests and bishops according to the usages of Catholic Churches, that is, those in communion with the Bishop of Rome" [III.B]. And further: "The celebration of Eucharistic or other sacramental liturgies by other denominations is best reserved to the designated places of worship of those denominations or other appropriate locations" [ibid].

Last Sunday, we were honored to host the Pontifical Divine Liturgy of His Holiness, Karekin II, Catholicos of All Armenians, at our Cathedral. Why this exception to the above guidelines?

In Unitatis Redintegratio, the Vatican II Degree on Ecumenism, the special position of the Eastern Churches is specifically noted: "These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all --- by apostolic succession --- the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy" [III.14]. This cannot be said of all Christian Churches, but certainly can be said of the Armenian Church.

In light of the conciliar document and the Ecumenical overtures of both our late Pope, John Paul II, and our current Pope, Benedict XVI, to the Eastern Churches, and acknowledging the hospitality extended by Karekin II to John Paul II during his pastoral visit to Armenia, when the Pope celebrated Mass on the altar of the Catholicos' Palace Chapel, we were singularly honored to host that spiritually rich and historic liturgy on our Cathedral altar.

Given the religious diversity of our city, it is fitting that our Cathedral be used both ecumenically and interreligiously, that it truly serve as the spiritual heart of Los Angeles.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: armenians; catholic; catholiclist; ecumania; interfaith
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[sigh]
1 posted on 06/23/2005 2:52:18 PM PDT by murphE
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah; Gerard.P; vox_freedom; donbosco74; te lucis; sempertrad; AAABEST; ...

ping


2 posted on 06/23/2005 2:55:34 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE
And now for something completely different:

Booting the Buddhists from the Basilica

3 posted on 06/23/2005 2:58:58 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

House of prayer for all peoples doesn't mean house of prayer for all gods.


4 posted on 06/23/2005 2:59:21 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Cecily

Yeah, someone should mention that to this joker who wrote the article.


5 posted on 06/23/2005 3:00:44 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE
I'm sure Mahony's 25-ton Great Bronze Doors to Paganism will swing wide open for 'em.
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
6 posted on 06/23/2005 3:14:39 PM PDT by Antioch (Flannery O'Connor: “evil is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be endured”)
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To: murphE
The quality of writing and posting continues to deteriorate.
Where is this located? What's the context?

It's as if we are an infinite collection of provincial small villages, each assuming that we are the center of the universe and nothing further needs to be said.

7 posted on 06/23/2005 3:14:41 PM PDT by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are ignorance, stupidity and hydrogen)
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To: Publius6961

Try asking nicely and maybe I'll tell you.


8 posted on 06/23/2005 3:28:47 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Publius6961

Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in Los Angeles (CA, USA)


9 posted on 06/23/2005 3:51:20 PM PDT by annalex
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To: murphE

Sadly, your church is starting to sound just like the Episcopagans, starting with the word [cringe] "enflesh." Episcopagan clergy speak that kind of gibberish all the time. It's known as "Episcobabble."

If this is how the RCC clergy are thinking, you are on the slippery slope to oblivion. You can check out the Feminist/Wiccan/Druid Mass on the ECUSA site for an example (although I think they took it down when too many people started making fun of them). Clown Masses done in mime are also fun.


10 posted on 06/23/2005 3:53:18 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: murphE
My House Shall Be a House of Prayer for All Peoples

Could this be perverted any further? Convert them and then they can pray there.

"And in the last days the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be prepared on the top of mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go, and say: Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob, and he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall come forth from Sion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." (Isaiah 2:2-3)

11 posted on 06/23/2005 5:29:23 PM PDT by gbcdoj (For if thou wilt now hold thy peace, the Jews shall be delivered by some other occasion)
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To: gbcdoj
Could this be perverted any further?

Bite your tongue. That's a pretty frightening question to ask when Cardinal Mahony is involved. =O

12 posted on 06/23/2005 6:28:51 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE
representatives of the Armenian, Evangelical Christian, Baha'i, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, Evangelical Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, United Church of Christ, Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox Faiths lead a large congregation of diverse people in an Interfaith Prayer Service commemorating the life of our Late Pope, John Paul II.

Tres apropos.
13 posted on 06/23/2005 7:44:38 PM PDT by te lucis ("For pity's sake, end the Council quickly." -Padre Pio)
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To: annalex
Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in Los Angeles (CA, USA)

That's NO cathedral...

That's a grim air hanger for the spirits of the damned.

14 posted on 06/23/2005 7:51:11 PM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Siobhan

Apt description.


16 posted on 06/23/2005 8:18:43 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: kaehurowing

Our Churchmen are sounding and acting like pagans. Not our Church.

The major attack on the Catholic Church is modernism as described by Pope St. Pius X in his encyclical "Pascendi" it's a bear to read but it's worth so much. I'm sure you'll spot the same trends in Protestant denominations and in the Political realm.

The Mods can try all they want and they can rock the Church back on its heels and humiliate her but they will never be able to escape the fact that the tradition of the Church can't be changed and it will keep coming back to haunt them.

As it stands, they can't stop the traditionalist movement from growing and at some point the conservative middle will split and God will force them to take sides.

The first example of that I've seen in evidence since the Vatican council is Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ."

Fr. Malachi Martin stated that the Church is going through it's own Passion and it won't stop until the Church is entombed and then it will rise again.


17 posted on 06/23/2005 8:20:48 PM PDT by Gerard.P (The lips of liberals drip with honey while their hands drip with blood--Bishop Williamson)
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To: Gerard.P

I should have made clear that I was not intending to disparage the Catholic Church. As you say, however, your Churchmen are sounding more than a little kooky.

Observe and profit by the Episcopagan debacle. Disillusioned Episcopagans can at least "swim the Tiber." But where will Catholics swim to if the Catholic Church heads down the same path?

As it is written in Revelation: "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches."


18 posted on 06/23/2005 9:41:44 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: kaehurowing

Oh, don't worry. I didn't think you meant anything malicious.

Catholics have gone underground for the most part.

We are back in the catacombes in so many ways.

The diocesan structure is so rife with apostasy that it's eventually going to collapse, but there are bishops who have been quietly consecrated and live there normal lives as priests.

There are married men who have been secretly trained and ordained as "emergency" preists. Who say the Mass privately just to keep it going.

You have the traditionalists of various stripe that are attacking the problem head on.

And there are bishops and Cardinals that are sympathetic but unwilling to act until they believe they can have the most effect.

The Church will painfully and eventually just shed this skin of apostasy and God will restore her better than ever. Till then, we hold fast and wait for the night to end.


19 posted on 06/23/2005 9:53:07 PM PDT by Gerard.P (The lips of liberals drip with honey while their hands drip with blood--Bishop Williamson)
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To: Siobhan

I report, you decide.

I can imagine the Catholicos hitchhiking on I-5 (goes right past it) all the way to all Armenians, in horror.


20 posted on 06/23/2005 10:03:40 PM PDT by annalex
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To: murphE; onyx; GipperGal

Taj Mahony *ping*


21 posted on 06/23/2005 11:52:40 PM PDT by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big..." Jerry Fletcher)
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To: Gerard.P; murphE

Anybody who opposes the goings-on mentioned in this article is just being hypocritical. In addition to the plethora of interfaith activities he participated in, the late Holy Father twice invited pagans to Assisi to break the 1st Commandment. When Mahoney engages in these types of things, everyone can clearly see it for what it is: synchronism and indifferentism and they rightly oppose him and these events. When the late Holy Father did the same types of things he is applauded for bringing people together to bring about a brotherhood of peace. How can anyone rail against Cdl Mahoney in one breath, and in the next condemn others who criticise the same activities hosted by the late Holy Father? How could JPII have been good and right about these things, and Mahoney terrible and wrong?


22 posted on 06/24/2005 7:04:47 AM PDT by sempertrad ("Welcome to Knight Burger. What will... ye have?" - MST3K)
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To: sempertrad
Countdown to Neo-Catholic thread-derailment

10...9...8...
23 posted on 06/24/2005 8:07:11 AM PDT by te lucis ("For pity's sake, end the Council quickly." -Padre Pio)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: sempertrad

I don't recall anyone who loved the late Pope supporting the Assisi blunder. There is much to love in John Paul II beside his errors in judgement. Mahoney, on the other hand, stands for nothing but heterodoxy, in this incident and in general.


26 posted on 06/24/2005 9:09:37 AM PDT by annalex
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To: Siobhan

HOLY ECHMIADZIN
The Seat of the Catholicos of All Armenians

This, by the way, is the "grim air hangar"'s counterpart.

27 posted on 06/24/2005 9:15:02 AM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex

By the time one gets to be pope, I would expect he'd know the 1st Commandment. I would expect he'd know that it is a sin to encourage sin.
The event mentioned in the above article is the entire message of the late Holy Father's pontificate come to life. Assisi I&II were not two "blunders" in an otherwise traditional, orthodox pontificate. He participated/hosted many, many similar events over the last 26 years.

And if JPII did not think the Cdl was guilty of general heterodoxy (made evident by getting the red hat and never having been disciplined), who are any of us to say otherwise?


28 posted on 06/24/2005 11:22:18 AM PDT by sempertrad ("Welcome to Knight Burger. What will... ye have?" - MST3K)
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To: sempertrad

I think that both John Paul II and Mahoney got ecumenism wrong.


29 posted on 06/24/2005 11:45:36 AM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
But ecumenism was, above everything else, JPII's top priority. He was all about ecumenism.

I'd be careful if I were you. Saying JPII got anything "wrong" will get you in heap big trouble here. :-)
30 posted on 06/24/2005 12:24:04 PM PDT by sempertrad ("Welcome to Knight Burger. What will... ye have?" - MST3K)
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To: sempertrad

No, ecumenism is what various Catholic schismatics like to beat him over the head with. The late Pope's legacy also includes defeat of Communist ideology, marginalization of the liberation theology, developing the theology of the body, and, timid as it was, resistance to sundry innovators in the church. Nor was his entire ecumenist effort wrong. His incessant travel, for example, made the world more aware of Catholicism and quite possibly stemmed the decline in vocations.


31 posted on 06/24/2005 12:33:56 PM PDT by annalex
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To: kaehurowing
Re: "Disillusioned Episcopagans can at least "swim the Tiber." But where will Catholics swim to if the Catholic Church heads down the same path?"

Underground. We have to face the fact the True Church will be a remnant as Scripture describes. Christ asked "Will Faith be alive when I return"

Holding firm is the only option despite events and the whole world against us, it is the only option.
32 posted on 06/24/2005 1:43:43 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: annalex
No, ecumenism is what various Catholic schismatics like to beat him over the head with.

Not sure who you're talking about or what they say which is akin to beating him over the head, but I notice that many Catholics utter not one peep over his ecumenical "blunders" or the paganistic spectacles that were most of his Masses, but they go absolutely postal when Mahoney does the very same things. Why? That's what I'm trying to figure out. That, and why we are free to make judgments about the Cdl when, by all accounts, JPII not only never judged likewise, but obviously approved of him.

His incessant travel, for example, made the world more aware of Catholicism and quite possibly stemmed the decline in vocations.

Was the world less aware of Catholicism before travel became easier?

All his incessant travel did was earn him worldly celebrity status. He was looked upon by the world as a spiritual and holy man. So is the Dali Lama. So is Billy Graham. But being able to recognize the Pope when you see him on TV hardly means that one is "more aware of Catholicism." Being aware of something doesn't mean one is aware of what exactly it is and means. And if we both agree that JPII "got ecumenism wrong" I imagine people the world over are considerably less aware of Catholic teachings then they were 26 years ago.
33 posted on 06/24/2005 1:50:40 PM PDT by sempertrad ("Welcome to Knight Burger. What will... ye have?" - MST3K)
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To: sempertrad

You have a point about Mahoney not doing anything John Paul II did not do; in fact, Cardinal Mahoney returned a favor received by the late Pope in Echmiadzin.

John Paul's celebrity status is simply a reflection of love many people, and many non-Catholics, felt for him. Which is the best ecumenical policy. Also, it is degrading to simply call him a celebrity because he was a celebrity with, and because of, substance.


34 posted on 06/24/2005 1:58:59 PM PDT by annalex
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To: murphE

Please, by all means. Why not just hand the keys over to the local Imam and be done with it. Considering the looks of that monstrosity, I'd actually be in favor of that.


35 posted on 06/24/2005 2:03:59 PM PDT by Antoninus (Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini, Hosanna in excelsis!)
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To: sempertrad

Unless you're a member of the Society of St. Pius I, I consider you a 'latinizer' and a follower of the radical Pope St. Leo.


36 posted on 06/24/2005 2:08:05 PM PDT by Antoninus (Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini, Hosanna in excelsis!)
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To: annalex
The late Pope's legacy also includes defeat of Communist ideology,

I must have missed this. When was Communist ideology defeated and why hasn't anyone told China?

37 posted on 06/24/2005 3:18:22 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

It's dead in China as well.


38 posted on 06/24/2005 3:20:15 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
It's dead in China as well.

Really. Tell that to the underground Church, being arrested, jailed and tortured. If it's dead in Russia, what happened to the KGB? When were the arrests and trials? What about all the political prisoners? When were they released? Boy you'd think at least a few of them would have been on Oprah by now.

39 posted on 06/24/2005 3:25:38 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

Communism is economic central planning. That is dead even in China. In all formerly communist countries Christianity is growing, including China.

I know the late Pope was not alone in transforming the world, but his contribution is among the greatest in late 20 century.


40 posted on 06/24/2005 3:35:42 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
Communism is economic central planning

That is one aspect of communist ideology and that is the most innocuous aspect of it. That is not the sum of communist ideology or even the primary aspect of communist ideology which is neither dead in the former Soviet Union, China or anywhere else. Therefor one can hardly say the legacy of its "defeat" belongs to anyone.

And now I have to make dinner.

41 posted on 06/24/2005 3:43:59 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

Bon appetit.

As far as Christianity fares in formerly Communist countries, or even in China, there is no comparison with pre-1973.

You know where Communism,-- central planning, dialectical materialism, atheism, and what have you, -- are metastasizing? Three guesses. It ain't Central or Eastern Europe.


42 posted on 06/24/2005 3:52:15 PM PDT by annalex
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: murphE
We enflesh those words in number of ways.

What the heck kind of a word is 'enflesh'? Why do these kooks constantly come up with new words that don't mean anything?

Hijacking the language really gets to me... even 'Celebrating the Eucharist' as a euphemism for 'Mass' or the 'Holy Sacrifice of the Mass' drives me bonkers.

How can only Catholics receive the Eucharist when everyone is welcome to 'celebrate the Eucharist'? No wonder 95% of Catholics are confused.

/rant over

44 posted on 06/24/2005 4:04:33 PM PDT by american colleen (Long live Benedict XVI!)
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To: annalex

I've seen prettier prisons. Perhaps they could sell it to these other faiths and build something more edifying.


45 posted on 06/24/2005 4:07:59 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
prettier prisons



McCullogh County Jail (now the Heart of Texas Museum)

No kidding.

46 posted on 06/24/2005 4:23:43 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
The architect that designed the LA Cathedral should be sentenced to life in the McCullough County Jail.
47 posted on 06/24/2005 4:32:05 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe

You think he'll learn anything?


48 posted on 06/24/2005 4:34:21 PM PDT by annalex
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To: City guy; Gerard.P
Has anyone heard of the Metz pact?

Yes, on a tape of an interview with Fr. Malachi Martin.

49 posted on 06/24/2005 5:36:11 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: american colleen
Hijacking the language really gets to me... even 'Celebrating the Eucharist' as a euphemism for 'Mass' or the 'Holy Sacrifice of the Mass' drives me bonkers.

Everything is one big happy happy joy joy celebration in the new civilization of luv. The Cross? Suffering? Reparation? Shhh. No one wants to hear that. It's such a downer.

50 posted on 06/24/2005 5:38:31 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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