Skip to comments.Unraveling Jesus' mystery years in Egypt
Posted on 07/31/2005 5:38:30 AM PDT by NYer
|"Behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him." - MATTHEW 2:13
How much do we really know about Jesus?
Not as much as we might think, according to a new film documentary focusing on the little-known childhood of Christianity's savior.
Titled "Jesus in Egypt," the film is based on a book of the same name by author Paul Perry, widely known for his work on near-death experiences.
Like Perry's book, the film focuses on the flight of Jesus' family to Egypt from Israel after King Herod threatened to "destroy" the boy Jesus, as St. Matthew wrote in the New Testament.
The film was prepared by a team led by Perry that includes Florida archaeologist John de Bry, 61. De Bry is a veteran of many projects, including a quest for the ships of the pirate Capt. William Kidd off Madagascar in 2000.
The film, providing information little known outside Egypt, takes viewers on a long trek through the nation's ruins and dusty desert towns, looking at the predominantly Muslim country's Christian past.
It also talks about the boy Jesus toppling idols and maturing quickly into a spiritual leader as his family traveled through Egypt.
For centuries, Christians in the northeastern African nation have kept records and documents about the family's journey there, but the Bible, with the exception of a few verses, concentrates primarily on the last three years of Jesus' life.
Because of that, the majority of the world's Christians know little about Jesus in Egypt, the 54-year-old Perry said from his home in Paradise Valley, Ariz.
While Egypt is a predominantly Muslim country, it also is home to several million Coptic Christians and the group's headquarters.
Perry, for his part, says he decided to write the book after learning how vital the story of Jesus' family is to Christians living in Egypt.
He made two journeys to scores of places the family is said to have stopped in the country, according to Coptic tradition. The first journey was for the book in 2001, and the second for the documentary, which took seven weeks to film in early 2004.
Because of concern about possible Muslim threats, the Egyptian government in 2004 gave the filmmakers plenty of security, as they had for Perry during his first trip in 2001. No incidents occurred either time.
The film shows many scenes and images, all of which are based on the centuries-old oral traditions and documents gathered by the Coptic Church but not on any new archaeological or documentary evidence.
Even without new evidence, de Bry, before leaving for Cairo in June, said, "We can no longer deny that there is a certain degree of truth to the tradition of the Holy Family in Egypt, a tradition based on a collective memory of historical events. The burden of proof is not on those who believe in the tradition but those who do not."
Of his latest venture, de Bry added, ''I'm not a born-again Christian, but this experience has changed me spiritually. It's been enlightening.''
Thank you very much for that edifying post. Good notes for my study and by His spiritual metabolization in my thinking processes.
"The Lord was smart in not putting into the inspired word the month or day of his fleshly birth..."
Based on the Tradition (including, of course, the Holy Scriptures), the Church has determiend that our Lord was born on December 25, A.D. 1 (Julian). You did not know this?
Are you familiar with the Holy Thorn of Glastonbury?
If not, click on http://hocna.org/defense/thorn.htm
Your welcome; freely receive, freely give!
**Based on the Tradition**
Sometimes I see that there are 'Traditionists' that gladly use science to try to prove a scriptural or 'Traditional' theology.
So, using science, I believe it has been proven that during Dec. thru mid-March the pastures in the high elevations (say, a 20 mile radius around Bethlehem) would have been dormant, even 2,000 yrs ago. Science and historical records have proven that the climate has changed very little over that span. Shepherds would no longer have been in the fields watching the flocks by night. The flocks would be in pens and fed forage, and the shepherds in their homes when the angels sang.
Note how cool it must have been in late March-early April when Peter tried to warm himself by a fire, and the cock was crowing.
I borrowed a book on this very subject years ago, but I will have to research the name.
You don't believe the Church and what she teaches? How sad. It's your funeral.
Well, someone named Graves probably knows a thing or two about funerals. :)
Your church does not believe the conversion commanded by the Lord in John 3:3-8 "..thou hearest the sound...so is EVERYONE that is born of the spirit"; Peter (you know, the man some call the first 'pope') in Acts 2:38,39; 10:44-48; and Paul's own conversion in Acts 9:17,18; 22:16. If your church believed it, they would command water and Spirit baptism (I think your church believes in repentance).
I debated others of your persuasion on this forum before. Feel free to read those 'swordfights'.
You say, "How sad. It's your funeral."
Interesting. Oh great almighty mr. Graves, how many have you judged and can confirm are in hell (or heaven)?
He was an interesting rabbi.
LOL !!! But how did you slip in from an Art Bell thread?
It was raining. It was cold
West Bethlehem was no place for a twelve year old
So he packed his bags and he headed out
To find out what the world's about
He went to France. He went to Spain
He found love. He found pain.
He found stores so he started to shop
But he had no money so he got in trouble with a cop
Kids in trouble with the cops
From Israel didn't have no home
So he cut his hair and moved to Rome
It was there he met his Irish bride
And they rented a flat on the lower east side of Rome... Italy that is
Music publishers, book binders, Bible belters, Money Changers,
Spoon Benders and lots of pretty Italian chicks.
Charley bought some popcorn
Billy bought a car
Someone almost bought the farm
But they didn't go that far
Things shut down at midnight
At least around here they do
Cause we all reside down the block
Inside at....23 Skidoo.
Wine was flowing so were beers
So Jesus found his missing years
So He went to a dance and said "This don't move me"
He hiked up his pants and he went to a movie
On his thirteenth birthday he saw "Rebel without a Cause"
He went straight on home and invented Santa Claus
Who gave him a gift and he responded in kind
He gave the gift of love and went out of his mind
You see him and the wife wasn't getting along
So he took out his guitar and he wrote a song
Called "The Dove of Love Fell Off the Perch"
But he couldn't get divorced in the Catholic Church <
P>At least not back then anyhow
Jesus was a good guy he didn't need this shit
So he took a pill with a bag of peanuts and
A Coca-Cola and he swallowed it.
He discovered the Beatles
And he recorded with the Stones
Once He even opened up a three-way package
In Southern California for old George Jones
The years went by like sweet little days
With babies crying pork chops and beaujolais
When he woke up he was seventeen
The world was angry. The world was mean.
Why the man down the street and the kid on the stoop
All agreed that life stank. All the world smelled like poop
Baby poop that is..the worst kind
So he grew his hair long and threw away his comb
And headed back to Jerusalem to find Mom, Dad and home
But when he got there the cupboard was bare
Except for an old black man with a fishing rod
He said "Whatcha gonna be when you grow up?" <
P>Jesus said "God"
Oh my God, what have I gotten myself into?
I'm a human corkscrew and all my wine is blood
They're gonna kill me Mama. They don't like me Bud. <
P>So Jesus went to Heaven and he went there awful quick
All them people killed him and he wasn't even sick
So come and gather around me my contemporary peers
And I'll tell you all the story of
Jesus...The Missing Years
"I debated others of your persuasion on this forum before."
I have found nobody of my "persuasion" in any debate with you about anything.
Did you even bother to read the short article about the Holy Thorn at the link I provided you?
Or are you a "know it all"?
You think someone can be condemned if they don't believe Jesus was born December 25th, in spite of the strong scriptural evidence that Jesus was in fact NOT born in December?
You don't seem to be making sure of the more important things. When I examine the scriptures with regard to what you are saying, I find:
"One man judges one day as above another; another man judges one day as all others; let each man be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 13:5
"You are scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting you." Galatians 4:10,11
Quite frankly, it isn't important what day Jesus was born. What is important is that he died, and rose and reigns as King.
The early Christians did not maintain December 25th as the "birthday" of Jesus. Early church fathers like Clement of Alexandria thought Jesus was born in November, other documents indicate maybe March.
December 25th was eventually chosen by the Church because that corresponded with the Roman festival of Saturnalia. It's clearly pagan in origin. As are the Christmas trees, the mistletoe, the "yule log", and other traditions associated with Christmas. They're all pagan in origin.
We should be wary about mixing light with dark, Christ with Belial. But if you insist on celebrating Christmas anyway, you have no standing to judge those who are honest about it.
Well, I can see you are full of opinions.
"Quite frankly, it isn't important what day Jesus was born"
Come back after you've dumped all your opinions and want to discuss questions intelligently.
I'm not really trying to learn from you. I was correcting you. If you are a Christian, you should be mindful of correction. You were judging someone because they don't believe Jesus was born on the 25th. This is not a worthy subject to judge someone, as there are no indications from Scripture that Christians must believe Jesus was born on the 25th or on ANY particular date.
"Titled "Jesus in Egypt," the film is based on a book of the same name by author Paul Perry, widely known for his work on near-death experiences."
Paul Perry is first going to have to explain HOW Jesus spent any YEARS Egypt.
A simple reading of Scripture says that Jesus' parents presented him to at the Temple in Jerusalem, and his
was received by a former High Priest and a Prophetess.
The High Priest pronounced a fulfill prophecy that he
would see the Messiah before he died.
First Century Judaism required, in fulfillment of Scripture, that children had to be presented at the Temple when "the days of her [Miryam's--Mary's] purification according to the Laws of Moses were accomplished." This period was 40 days. Herod died within that same 40 days. [The Scripture is Luke 2:22.}
If Jesus had not been presented that soon, his Messiahship would have been tainted by the violation of Scripture. How could the Jews or anyone else believe in a Messiah who violated his own Word--the Tenakh?
Jesus came to fulfill Scripture, not to supercede it. "Well, I want all of the Jewish children to be presented at the Tempe within 40 days except me?" I really think not.
So where did Joseph and Mary take Jesus when they were warned to flee into Egypt. Probably to Egypt for 40 days Because Herod died, and then they could return.
Then what? They turned around and went BACK to Egypt when everything was then okay, and they could stay at home because Herod had perish? Again, that doesn't make any sense.
Perry's thesis falls apart in view of Scripture.
"Perry's thesis falls apart in view of Scripture."
Has anyone bothered to do the obvious, study the patristic Tradition on the subject?
***March 25th or April 6th. If you add nine months to both of those dates, you get December 25th (Christmas) or January 6th (Epiphany). ***
There is another way of counting.
John the Baptist's father worked in the temple in the course of ABIA which occured about 12-18 Sivan, or June 13-19.
Give him time to get home and his wife conceive John, then 6 months later the Holy Spirit comes upon him. This means Mary would have conceived Jesus about Dec. 25 and his birth would have been about Sept 29.
Conception of John..23 Sivan or June 23-24.
Birth of John...7 Nisan or March 28-29.
Christ begatting... 1 Tebeth or Dec 25.
Nativity...15 Tisri or Sept 29.
All based on when John's father worked in the temple in the course of ABIA.