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Lutheran leader calls for an ecumenical council to address growing biblical fundamentalism
Religion News Service ^ | Thursday, 11 August 2005 | Kevin Eckstrom

Posted on 08/20/2005 4:17:14 PM PDT by gscc

Lutheran leader calls for an ecumenical council to address growing biblical fundamentalism

Contributed by Religion News Service Thursday, 11 August 2005

The leader of the nation's largest Lutheran denomination has called for a global Christian council to address an "identity crisis" on how churches interpret and understand the Bible.


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: apostasy; elca; lutheran; lutherans; religiousleft
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: kittymyrib
It is every bit that bad, plus based on the logical fallacy that "the only absolute is that there are no absolutes."

Challenging that muddled thinking is heresy; as is standing firm that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life against the denominations' infatuation with multiculturalism, pluralism, diversity, and, of course, "tolerance"
22 posted on 08/20/2005 7:34:47 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat
As a Lutheran, I have serious issues with the President of the Lutheran World Federation considering himself an equal player with the Patriarch of the East and the Bishop of Rome; particularly since he snubbed the invitation to attend the Requiem for John Paul II (it fell on the same day as the ELCA Church Council meeting which led to the pro-sodomite local option Ordination proposal fiasco).

If he were half the world figure he presumes to be, he would have known that his proper place on April 15 was in Rome, not Chicago, building up the body of Christ, not promoting its division.
23 posted on 08/20/2005 7:42:03 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: lightman

How is he elected, by the other bishops of the ELCA? And which Lutheran denominations does he represent, I assume he doesn't represent Missouri or Wisconsin Synod Lutherans, am I correct?


25 posted on 08/20/2005 8:20:16 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: gscc

Perhaps it is to be considered an encouragement when

the RELIGIOUS, tradition, form focused

start getting concerned

about those who take The Bible at face value and earnestly try and apply it in faithful practical ways in their lives whereupon God responds in miraculous and marvelous ways.


26 posted on 08/20/2005 8:24:34 PM PDT by Quix (TIMES R A CHANGING! THE BIBLE GIVES THE OUTLINE AHEAD PRAY, PREPARE)
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat
The Presiding Bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is elected for a six-year term by the 1018 Voting Members (1/3 clergy, which include the 65 Synodical Bishops; 1/3 lay female, 1/3 lay male). The process is a modified ecclesiastical ballot: as the voting progresses, the number of candidates is culled and the number of valid ballots required for election declines from an intial high of 75% to 50% plus one vote. Hanson election in 2001 did not come to pass until the field had been greatly pared and the bar had been greatly lowered. He narrowly defeated Southwest Pennsylvania Synod Bishop Don McCoid, a staunch conservative. One can only imagine how different things would be....

The Lutheran World Federation in headquartered in Geneva and the presidency tends to rotate around the member churches with the greatest numbers. It was mostly serendipitous that Hanson assumed its Presidency; it was simply North America's "turn" to hold that office and Hanson happened to be leading the largest Lutheran body on this continent.

Bishop Hanson stands for re-election in 2007. Conservative Lutherans, arise; get yourselves elected at your 2006 Synod Assemblies as Voting Members to the 2007 Churchwide Assembly which will be in Chicago.
27 posted on 08/20/2005 8:33:50 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: gscc
In a State of the Church address to Lutheran delegates, Hanson urged greater cooperation with other churches, but also noted that one stumbling block -- particularly with Catholics and Orthodox churches -- was non-negotiable.

"In all of our ecumenical relations, let us be clear that the ordination of women now in its 35th year is a gift we bring to ecumenical relationships that we pray others will receive," he said to applause.

It could be a joke if the guy weren't so serious: first, one expects the non-negotiable item to be, maybe, sola fide or sola scriptura, you know, a Lutheran distinctive or something? Nope, it's women's ordination, which the good bishop proudly reminds us, has been around for a whopping thirty-five years! Quite a gift! I mean, how did the Orthodox and Catholics- heck even the Protestants- make it for all those years? For 1,950 years the Church lacked this wonderful "gift," only lately discovered and verified, all without even so much as an Ecumenical Council. Wow.

28 posted on 08/20/2005 8:34:29 PM PDT by Cleburne (May you live in interesting times)
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To: lightman
Bishop Hanson stands for re-election in 2007. Conservative Lutherans, arise; get yourselves elected at your 2006 Synod Assemblies as Voting Members to the 2007 Churchwide Assembly which will be in Chicago.

Do you really think you can get the ELCA away from the National Council of churches? That has to be done before you can even have a prayer of reversing this apostasy.

29 posted on 08/20/2005 8:55:27 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

I like the motto of Jefferson Smith in "Mr. Smith goes to Washington": "Lost causes are the only ones worth fighting for."

I used to compare the fate of the ELCA to the Titanic, but more and more I believe the correct analogy is Flight 93 of September 11, 2001. The plane has been hijacked, but "let's roll!"


30 posted on 08/20/2005 9:07:20 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: golfisnr1

Where does this gentleman get his warrant to interpret the Scriptures in any way other than a literal, normal usage of language (which allows for metaphor, poetry, etc., and yet reads historical narrative unmatched anywhere in human experience)?


31 posted on 08/20/2005 9:22:56 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (The radical secularization of America is happening)
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To: golfisnr1

I'm with you, evangelical and I have no problem with understanding the Bible.


32 posted on 08/20/2005 9:24:11 PM PDT by trubluolyguy (If you think you're having a bad day, try crucifixtion.)
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To: labette

I think much like liberals try to twist facts to fit their politics, this clergyman is trying to twist the word of God to fit his agenda.


33 posted on 08/20/2005 9:27:30 PM PDT by trubluolyguy (If you think you're having a bad day, try crucifixtion.)
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To: TonyRo76; Honorary Serb; redgolum
We Evangelicals are not your enemies; the devil is

I didn't say that Evangelicals are my enemies. I said that we cannot agree on the interpretation of the Bible if the Bible we use is not the same. We are not reading the same book.

34 posted on 08/20/2005 10:04:11 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat
As a Catholic, I have serious issues with a Lutheran bishop pretending to call an Ecumenical Council

Never mind the Ecumenical Council, how can a Lutheran be a bishop? Lutherans do not have the authority passed on by Apostolic Succession. They have no valid priesthood either.

35 posted on 08/20/2005 10:09:32 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: madison10
Translation: "We haven't yet found a way to rewrite scripture to satisfy our itching ears & wayward morals...but we're working on it."

Well said!

36 posted on 08/20/2005 10:10:28 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Since we are discussing Biblical Authority I can't find the office of Bishop in the Scriptures nor do I see Apostolic Succession or even the concept. I do see Elders and Deacons and I believe the doctrine of the Priesthood of Believers is clear. How about some Scripture?


37 posted on 08/20/2005 10:26:39 PM PDT by gscc
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To: sitetest
Bishop Hansen may not quite understand the way Catholics and Orthodox understand ecumenical councils. If the Catholics and the Orthodox were to agree to an ecumenical council together, pretty much only the Catholics and the Orthodox would be invited as full participants (maybe some Oriental Churches, that's about it). Certainly, the fellow heading the ELCA would not have any more status than "welcome guest and observer."

Not only has he invited himself, he dis-invited us, since he only wants "Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran churches" -- excluding evangelicals, fundamentalists, and others of Nonconformist or Reformed roots. Which is just as well, since we wouldn't show up anyway.

But it does raise a question. If the whole point is to set us straight, and we don't go and don't recognize the proceedings as binding on us, just how does he intend to make it stick?

Either he hasn't thought this through (which is probably it) or he's got something sinister in mind.

38 posted on 08/20/2005 10:37:35 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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To: Diego1618

--Mainline churches have no idea how irrelevant they have become!--

"Mainline" churches have become more and more fringe and less and less "mainline" in the sense of dominant, anyway. Some of them (at least in the seminaries and leadership) act, talk and behave (and no doubt believe) like Christ and the scriptures are irrelevant, anyway. I wonder why some of them bother to call themselves Christian any more...


39 posted on 08/20/2005 10:46:22 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
also noted that one stumbling block -- particularly with Catholics and Orthodox churches -- was non-negotiable.

"In all of our ecumenical relations, let us be clear that the ordination of women now in its 35th year is a gift we bring to ecumenical relationships that we pray others will receive," he said to applause.

What Hanson fails to comprehend is that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches believe in transubstantiation. Our liturgies were instituted by Christ at the Last Supper and He passed the priesthood on to men. In the words of consecration: 'This is my body' (literal interpretation of Scripture), the priest speaks sacramentally 'in the person of Christ' (in persona Christi), it is Jesus who consecrates the host through the priest who is an instrument only. Thus, since it is Jesus who says, 'This is my body', the priest through whom Christ speaks must also be male otherwise the very meaning of the mass is distorted and perverted.

Hanson was correct in one regard. This issue is non negotiable.

40 posted on 08/21/2005 12:12:59 AM PDT by NYer ("Each person is meant to exist. Each person is God's own idea." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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