Posted on 08/20/2005 11:56:17 PM PDT by nickcarraway
thank you for ur kind invitation but I've been to the States once already. I was there 5 years ago and didn't feel at ease then, and now after all these changes in the way Muslims r treated I would not dare go there. I don't wear a Muslim dress called Hijab but if people just learnt I'm Muslim some of them would probably do something not too nice to me. I've read that Muslim women wearing hijab sometimes receive physical or verbals insults in Russia, US and European countries. well I liked ur country to some extent, it has a lot to see and to do, I went to see Disneyland and Universal Studios, Hollywood and Vegas but it's not my dream country anyway.I'm not saying I would not live there if I had to like if my husband was American or had to work there, it's just if I had a choice I'd choose smth different. ur people, especially women seem to be quite cold, not 100% but the majority, very unfriendly, they act like men and seem to be aggressive. I also heard quite a few stories abt women not taking care of their kids, leaving them, using drugs, saw so many lesbians and a few gays that it really gave me a shock. there is a lot to list, good and bad and I wouldn't want to do it here. please take my comments easy, I may be subjective but this is what I saw anyway. on the contrary, many American men seemed like good and caring fathers and husbands and they were generally friendly. I just want you all to keep in mind that in most cases when I say things, I'm not just basing my statements on what I read, but I also what I saw with my own eyes or heard from people living in the countries I mention. ur nickname is "Investigateworld" so perhaps that's what you should do, go to any Arabic country, let's say Egypt or UAE and you'll see how friendly those people r to you, no matter if ur Ameican or Kazakh or smth else, how peaceful their minds r, how helpful they r and how religious. I promise you, that would expand ur horizons greatly and make you change some images you have in mind provided you r not too biased.
I heard an absolutely different story regarding Christians's being able to worship in Saudi so what shall I do, believe u or other sources? I think I should go there myself and see with my own eyes.
abt the history, yes I know that religion was spread by Muslims that way that they had to fight and probably kill people. ok what abt Christianity? was it spread with no violence and blood at all? before Christinanity, what did all those people practise? how did they have to become Christians? what abt Christian crusades? do you know how many Muslims they killed and those killed were not only military troops? ask urself a q-n: is it ever possible that 100% or even 70% of people embrace another religion voluntarily, without any force? how abt the Spanish inquisition? how many Protestants were killed by them as well as people of different religions nly because they prayed in a different way? how many so called "heretics" were thrown in fire? I will go and study the history of North Africa and Balkans's invasion by Islam as soon as you answer all these q-s and prove me that not a single person or a single family was killed or forced to accept Christianity.
Alma,
How convenient you claim not to know how Christians are treated in SA. Do some research and find out - it's not pleasant how infidels are treated in muslim countries...
I have been to Egypt,Saudi and to UAE... Egypt is no paragon of honesty.. people are the same.. mugging stealing etc. UAE , if you are not a muslim, and get into trouble...you had it!! And yes, In Saudi you cannot bury a christian or cremate a hindu.. check their government website!
The prophet was a paedophile. Read the sunnat.
The way the religion is practiced is more to say about what it is than the way the book is.
Today islam as practiced takes only the violent pieces of the book to justify murder and pillage. Nobody is proud of the christianity of the inquisitions, conquests and crusades... you guys (muslims) still glorify everything the suicide bomber does. You justify 9/11 and 7/7 with Iraq forgetting totally that Iraq happened after 9/11.
Yours is a religion of violence and will bring destruction to our race
A madman went to a cave and now we have millions saying he got the word of god...sighhhhh... did god call you guys on the phone to tell you? And moreover, you are out to killl anyone who says it's not the word of god!!.... pathetic... it's not a relegion , ITS A CULT!!!
PS: I am not a muslim or a christian or anything
Also, i could not find the reference to both the incidents ..the diplomat AND the priest at any..repeat ANY non muslim site!! why???
Like the prophet, has the whole cult mastered disinformation? and blind belief?
sounds like I'm becoming popular on this site, so many postings to me. not sure it makes me happy though. I can read this site only when I'm at work and they keep me pretty busy here so I may not be able to respond to all messages regularly. just to let u all know.
as I mentioned before, per different sources Aisha was from 9 to 17 when she married our Prophet (sas). how can u know better when even Muslims scholars r not sure of her exact age? I suppose u got this information from flanstein's site. I bet this Jew (if he's a Jew) knows abt Islam more than all the other Muslims put together! how does he know this fact, was he present at that time? or did his ancestors leave him some written testimonies of exact Aisha's age? hope u understand from my words that I don't believe this source and I agree of course that having sex with a child is a disgusting thing that our Prophet would never do.
next, I'm aware of these Verses from Quran that call for fighting and slaying the infidels that include Jews or Christians or any other religion followers. however these Verses were written for Mohammad's (sas) companions that had to fight regularly, and they fought not only Jews but Arabs as well. those Arabs that didn't accept Mohammad's preaching and were giving him a really hard time, trying to kill him, naming him a mad man and making him and his followers leave their homes in Makkah and move to Madina. why don't u finish these Verses and add what is written next in other Verses (I'm going to put in my own words as I don't have English translation of the Quran): "but if they come back to you, forgive them and do not keep a grudge against them as Allah is most Forgiving, most Merciful". May Allah forgive me InshaAllah that I have not put the exact words as they r written in His Book but I did my best to put down the meaning. if some people today misinterpret the meaning of these Verses and try to kill Innocent people, that is not the fault of Quran. people can interpret any book as they want depending on what their preferences r and what their heart is telling them. by the way, have u ever read the Old Testament? as fas as I know, it has more violence and blood than any Hollywood actions.
I do know how Christian r treated in some Muslimc countries as I've been to some of them. and I also know how Muslims r treated in some Christian countries that have large Muslim populations such as Russia, US, Holland. so please don't try to portray Muslims as narrow-minded and hostile people while Christians and Jews r most friendly and innocent and peace-loving people, ok? we all know the true situation, at least I suppose u do.
FYI
u must have been very unlucky to have run into mugging and stealing in Egypt. how did u manage to do that?? I was there during 2 weeks and never even saw any suspicious -looking people, let alone thieves or muggers. perhaps, 2 weeks is not long. when I arrived there , we had a guide who originally comes from Tajikistan (again, for those who don't know, it's a country in the former Soviet Union like Kazakstan)and we asked him: is it safe here? his answer was-ladies, you have nothing to worry abt. it's a very safe country and I have been here 3 years already so please no problem. on the contrary, you'll see that people r very decent and helpful. the same with me, I only met very nice people except for a couple of taxi-drivers. one of them made us pay 5 times more that we would if we were locals and a couple of others were making some advances. but I think such class of men r the same everywhere, Egyptians may be just more straightforward:-)
abt UAE - well, perhaps u right and if a Christian is in trouble, that will be a big trouble. can't say anything abt that. Saudi- can u send me a link to their government website, I tried google search and there r lots of sites but the ones I surfed through only talk abt culture and women's rights, oil reserves, work schedule, population, geographical location etc. not a word abt cremation of Hindus, however strange it may seem.
quote: "Today islam as practiced takes only the violent pieces of the book to justify murder and pillage. Nobody is proud of the christianity of the inquisitions, conquests and crusades... you guys (muslims) still glorify everything the suicide bomber does. You justify 9/11 and 7/7 with Iraq forgetting totally that Iraq happened after 9/11.
Yours is a religion of violence and will bring destruction to our race. A madman went to a cave and now we have millions saying he got the word of god...sighhhhh... did god call you guys on the phone to tell you? And moreover, you are out to killl anyone who says it's not the word of god!!.... "
now a q-n for u- what do u know abt Islam and its practices except for suicide bombers? do u know that Islamic practices include first of all belief in Allah and his Prophets's, testimony that there is no Good but Allah and Mohammad is His Prophet (sas), 5times prayers, charity, fasting during ramadan and other times, for women and men-wearing decent and modest clothes, not drinking alcohol, not eating pork and many others. do any of these practices have anything to do with violence, murder and pillage? except for the suicide bomers themselves and perhaps their trainers, nobody else is proud of their actions. first of all, because suicide is one of the worst sins in Islam so they commit a strong sin. second, because these terror acts do not bring anything good to Muslims and Islam and only profane the name of Islam. therefore, most of us Muslims do not approve their actions. at the same time, I can understand them and why they r doing that. Palestines do that because of Israeli occupation of their own land and they feel so helpless and think these actions will at least kill some of their enemies. as for the suicide bombers in Spain, US, Britain etc. , all of that was a response to the actions of US, Britain, Spain. did u never think why such terror acts never take place, for instance in Switzerland or Peru? they don't happen because the US is acting as the world policeman and ALWAYS interferes in other countries's business. why the heck do u have to go Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan, why the heck do u have to threaten Iran, Syria, North Korea and even China?? Britain and Spain sent their troops to Iraq and they got what they wanted. violence creates violence, as a man sows, so shall he reap. let the countries live their own way , leave everybody ALONE and IN PEACE at last and then these suicide bombers will leave u alone too and ur civil people will not die any longer. I live in Kazakstan and I really don't like our government and think they r corrupt but I would NEVER want Americans to come here and establish so-called democracy and bring me "human rights". I don't want ur values, ur way of life and ur religion. by the way, is anybody trying to make ur race revert to Islam? no, again no. vice versa, again it's Americans who come here and r trying to force Christianity into application. beginning late 90-s we've started having some "kind" Americans that came to the south of Kazakstan where I live and settled in our villages. they gave the villagers that r poor and low-educated and have a vague idea of Islam and no idea of Christinaty some food and money and then started telling them abt Jehova. so after receiving some food and clothes, certainly those poor people were easy to convert to that sect. so as u see, again ur race is brining ur false religion and confused religion to our race, not vice versa. and, did God call u to say that ur religion is most truthful one? when did that happen?
1. As I said before, I haven't been to Saudi myself so my answer can only be based on what I heard and read. and if that contradicts ur information, that is certainly not my fault.
2. Thank u for reminding me of this. I always have known of course that Christianity is the most "truthful"religion but I didn't know that all Christians were perfect and sinless people. I do know that lying is a bad sin, "deadly" sin as u called it as well as pride and arrogance, adultery and jealousy, stealing and many others. and I can also say that I commit at least some of these sins not that seldom. I ask Allah to forgive me for them but I certainly don't know if He will forgive me or not. we don't have priests in Islam that could forgive our sins on behalf of God so I can only hope for Allah's forgiveness. and, I'm sorry but I'm positive that u as well as ur "brothers" in the religion do the same. I am positive that u too lie at least once a day, u too get mad, use bad words (even once in ur life) drink alcohol, feel jealous , fall in despair, feel hatred to people, mistreat people, love money, look at other women except ur wife, etc etc. at least I said honestly I commit sins not pretending like I or any other Muslim never lie. do u remember all these lies some ignorant people (to put it mildly) wrote here abt Islam, like that pederasty in allowed in Islam, and that it has no moral codes and therefore is so very easy to follow and that Aisha was 9 when our Prophet (sas)deflowered her and that suicide bombers r honoured among Muslims and we r proud of them and that we obey Mullahs and all the other garbage? do u remember that it was ur "honest" Christians who wrote all that? well, perhaps also not less "honest" Jews too. therefore, please don't make me laugh again by telling me that in Christianity people do not lie. if u need more examples, I will give u more examples with pleasure.
Recently, a young muslim woman asked me on her blog "why have you singled out Islam for critique? After all, Judaism and Christianity have their share of extremists. Are you not worried about the threat they pose? "
I answered her this way...
Why have I singled out islam?
Here's a clue, who dances around dead infidels holding their victims burnt entrails shouting "allah akbar"?
Airplanes full of humans are hijacked and crashed into skyscrapers full of humans, hotels are bombed, 12 year old children’s birthday parties are blown up, bus loads of children are massacred. Who were the culprits? Mormons? Animists? Jews? Hindus?
Somebody executed thousands during the miss world riot while asking some of the victims to recite passages out of the koran. If they could not comply, they were butchered on the spot. Were the villains Quakers? Buddhists? Bahai? Pagans? Atheists?
The targeting, torture and massacre of schoolchildren in Russia was perhaps the most barbarous act in 2004. Who I ask were the culprits? Unitarians? Scientologists? Catholics?
There is, of course, the massacre in N.Y. the hundreds of Australians BBQ'd in Bali and hundreds more blown apart in Madrid. Who did that I wonder? Falun-gong?
Let’s not forget all the innocent people beheaded on video (shouting alla akbar) while they danced around in joy.
The common thread between all of these horrific crimes is a religion I believe is a grave threat to civilization - islam.
Equal rights before the law do not exist under Islamic law. One citizen, one vote does not exist under Islamic law. Freedom of worship does not exist under Islamic law. Minorities -- that is, non-Muslims -- enjoy rights and protections at the pleasure of the Muslim community that are ever-subject to the capriciousness of a rights-canceling fatwa.
Indeed, Islamic law is not the basis of a religion, as the Judeo-Christian world understands religion, but is rather the basis of a controlling ideology that is nothing short of totalitarian.
Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, a Saudi journalist in London said: “It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists,” he writes, “but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims. We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly, implemented by Muslim men and women."
Here's a site you will find interesting...
http://www.faithfreedom.org./Quran.htm
if I was that Muslim woman, I'd never ask u why u singled out Islam because no q-s need to be asked. from ur postings it's obvious that as "a good and peaceful" and most important "truthful" Christian (or Judaist) u hate Islam and its followers and always try to find only most negative stuff in my religion and Muslims as people. I think u should change ur nickname here to Dr.Hate, it would be closer to truth.
quote: "Equal rights before the law do not exist under Islamic law. One citizen, one vote does not exist under Islamic law. Freedom of worship does not exist under Islamic law." -
First of all, equal rights before the law do exist under Islamic law. rich and poor, women and men have nearly the same rights and the same duties with some differences depending on their physiology and social duties. women in Islam have had such rights since the 6th century that non-Muslim women did not get until 19th-20 centuries. a woman in the Quran was named an equal human being having the same soul as a man and if she believed in Allah and Mohammad as HIs Prophet (sas) and followed Islam's practices in a perfect way she would go to Paradise as well as men and enjoy all of HIs rewards there the same way as men, wonderful life, pure partners, closeness to Allah any many others . "And among His signs is this: that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest and peace of mind in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Certainly, herein indeed are signs for people who reflect." [30:21]
Prophet Muhammad said:
"The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manners and kindest to his wife."
what a difference to Christian church where a woman was not considered to be an equal human being until approximately 19th century. before that a woman was called "a witch" that has a "devilish" soul and nature and that is only here on this Earth to tempt and seduce a man. have u ever read abt how many beautiful women were thrown in fire for centuries because of their beauty? was it what Prophet Isa-Arabic for Jesus (sas) told u all to do? if u want me to elaborate on rights and duties of women and men in Islam, I can do that, just let me know.
one man, one vote - I don't undertand that, what does that mean? does it mean we can't vote for smb or what?
Freedom of worship does exist under Islam. I wrote before here and I will write again a quote from the HOly Quran: "There is no compulsion in religion". when Muslims were ruling in what is now Russia, when they were ruling in Spain, India and other countries, everybody was free to practise any religion they wanted.
now abt terrorists. if u read my previous postings, u should understand at last that Islam doesn't teach to kill civil people. those Verses were meant for fighting enemies of Mohammad (sas) and his fellow-fighters. if people use these verses nowadays as an excuse to kill civilians trying to liberate their countries from Israelis or western occupants, it's is in no way the fault of Islam and Quran. now let me ask u these q-s: what religion is practised by G.Bush, Colin Powell and all those dogs from his administration that falsely claimed Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? r u aware how many civilians r killed in Irak every day? when Bush sent some type of rocket to Iraq that killed a few families, how would u call those actions? Not terrorism, of course but a fair war against insurgents? how abt the villain prison wardens from Guantanamo, what religion do they practise? did God or Isa tell them to urinate on captives, make those poor men have sex like they were homosexuals, flush the Quran down the toilette, tear it, burn it, put sack on the captives and step on them, put out their cigarettes on their naked bodies, bring naked western prostitutes that were touching themselves including their genitals in front of people who were taught to respect women, who had mostly seen women in hijabs except their wives and who were taught that women r modest and vulnerable creatures? some of the captives went insane after all these tortures. did the Bible tell them to do that? what abt Russians's genocide in Chechnya? r u aware that Russins killed abt 200,000 people during the two wars with Chechens? it equals 1/10 of the whole population in Chechnya so if US has 150 or 200,000,000 people , 1/10 would be 20 million killed in genocide. r Russians Christians or perhaps Muslims? what abt IRA? how many civilian Enlishmen did they kill? r they Muslims or Christians? what abt HIndus discriminating against Muslims in INdia? Muslims only make up 10% of their population and still Hindus go and attack them, kill little children, boys and girls and they even cut the wombs of pregnant women and remove their unborn babies? why don't u and ur government shout abt all these facts to the whole world and start a war against Russians or HIndus or Ireland or against their own Ameican or British soldiers? if I was as narrow-minded as u and ur brothers in the religion that participate on this forum, I would think that all AMericans and Brits and Hindus and Irish r horrible bastards that don't have the right to live and that Christianity is the most evil religion of all. but , I am not therefore I don't judge the whole nation or all of the followers of some cetain religion by its separate individuals, even though their numbers r thousands and thousands of people.
thanks for quoting Verses from the Quran, I was very much pleased to read them. all these verses from the Bible sound good too. I only have one little q-n: which version of the Bible did u quote? as far as I know there is not one and the only but at least 4 versions of the book which I'm aware of. I'm sure there r much more which I don't know abt. now reflect on this: how can there more than one version of Word of God from one and the same Prophet? another q-n: how do u know what was written in the original, the very 1st one and most truthful Bible that was sent to Jesus- Isa (sas) by God? the Aramaic language in which he spoke has been dead for centuries. the most known first versions of the book were translations from Aramaic to ancient Hebrew and Greek if I remember right. there r several books from Mathew, Paul,Luke,John, Peter and other apostles, I don't even remember all the names and their exact spelling in English. these books from Apostles differ on some things. I wonder why? there were several books in circulation until the Coucil in the 4th A.D. chose a few ones and said they were the ones to be used and the others were to be destroyed. r u aware that Catholic Bible has 7 (SEVEN) more books than Protestant Bible? the q-n is why? how could real God's word be so different in the same religion? instead of wasting ur time and studying Quran with the purpose to find facts of violence and contradictions in it, why don't u study all Christian bibles, Catholic, Protestant, Russian Orthodox, King James Bible and another tens of Bibles, to see how many contradictions and facts of violence r there. Then try to decide which one is the most "truthful" and original one. u or any other Christians on the planet will NEVER be able to do that even in a million years because the original Bible was lost. all of u would be trying to prove that urs is the most correct one. now compare that with the Holy Quran:there has been one and only Quran for the past 1400 years. not a word was added to it, taken off or distorted in any other way. Arabic is still an alive language spoken by millions of people and Arabs and non-Arabs who learnt the language understand what is written in the Quran even though modern Arabic may be slighly different. if ur religion is so truthful as u say, can u tell me who was Isa (sas)? some Christians tell me Jesus was God, others say Son of God, others say he was the Prophet, and others just mumble smth unclear. if he was God, how could he be crucified by mere human beings? how could he send himself to Hell to spend some time there? how could God bear himself? while he was in Hell, who was managing and ruling and controlling the whole Universe? if he was Son of God, why did God send him to Hell? why couldn't God forgive people's sins withour sacrificing His son? what abt this trinity concept? what the heck does mean? God and his son and holy spirit? there is only One God , Allah in Arabic and he didn't bear nor was he born. this trinity was invented by Byzantine Council whose previous religion contained dualism. so they couldn't put up with only one Almighty God. now listen to what the Quran says abt Isa: he was God's Prophet and he only preached what Allah told me to preach and he never called himself God. he was not crucified because Allah (God) lifted him to Heaven and made people see as if he was crucified. all these Prophets- Abraham, Moses, JOhn, Solomon, David, Ismael, Isaak, Isa and Mohammad (peace be upon them all) were God's Prophets and a few of them brought the true message from God that was later distorted.
enough abt that, hope or ur peers here will be able to answer my q-s, at least some of them.
quote "Christians have not always been perfect in following the injuctions of Christ, but the nearer they come to perfect following, blessings will invariably flow for all people. Conversely, when the teachings of Mohammed are followed to the letter, the fruits are blood, sorrow, deceit and misery--even for those who are not infidels". the more I read postings from u all, the more q-s I have. r Christians getting any nearer injuctions of Christ? what do most Christians do except for Sunday trips to church and celebrating Christmas? by the way, again westerns celebrate it on December 25 and Russins on 7th of January. Christmas has become just a commercial holiday, do u not think so?
the non-perfect and "blood-thirsty" Muslims who try to follow the teachings of Mohammad at least to some extent, donated millions of dollars to US New Orleans. Qatar, a tiny country contributed $500mln., Bahrain-1mln., Muslims from Russia collected millions of dollars, I don't recall the exact number. if Muslims r so bad and hate and kill Christians, why do they donate money to them?
now u reflect on all I said and get back to me with ur answers.
It is common, even in the U.S., for American muslims to see themselves as victims, even as they stand around the bodies of those they have killed. I had no idea this delusional mind-set was so wide-spread. Thanks for the laugh tho...
(From jihadwatch.org)
Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the law that global jihadists are laboring to impose everywhere, ultimately on the entire human race.
u can call me ignorant or any other words, I don't really care. what I do care abt is that u please specify which exactly statements that I wrote in my message r untrue and "nonsense". did I say smth untrue abt Bush and the war in Iraq? or did I lie abt IRA? did I lie abt the Guantanamo prison wardens? maybe abt Hindus attacking Muslims in India? perhaps abt Russians's genocide in Chechnya?
next, in all of my postings have I ever called myself or other Muslims as "victims"? by no means I would consider myself to be a victim. I'm actually a very lucky person as I was born into a Muslim family. my Mum taught us some basics of our most true religion of God and Alhamdullah, I learnt the rest myself and with help of others Muslims. things could've been much worse and I could've been born a HIndu and pray to some statues of "gods" without realising that these so-called "gods" can be destroyed and smashed by any human being or even an animal. or I could've been a Christian and never know exactly who Jesus was, God or God's son or Prophet and then go to a church and pray to another statue of "God" on a cross or an icon of so-called "God's mother". if she was God's mother, who created her then? or I could just not have practised Christianity at all and all I'd do is celebrate Christmas and carry a big cross on my neck.
now read ur own postings and postings of other participants of this forum. has it not dawned on u that u urself consider urselves as victims of "Muslim extremists, terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists"? who screams in all the newspapers and TV and all the public speeches abt that? Muslims? no. Israelis and westerners? yes. u all just do not get that residents of those countries that u just won't leave alone respond to ur actions with the same violence. Now, in ur previous posting u described a whole list of "villain Muslim" terrorists, murderers and simply bandits and accused Islam of being guilty for that. Now when I did the same and described to u actions of villain terrorists that represent Christians and Hindus, u again accused Muslims of "seeing themselves as victims". That is why I call u narrow-minded as u only see one side of things and don't see the other side of things. Most of u here suffer from the same lack of thinking and logic. Do u get it now at last?
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