Posted on 08/30/2005 8:41:05 PM PDT by DallasMike
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him." (John 9:1-3 Listen)
The problem of pain and suffering has vexed humanity since the beginning. If there is a God, and if he is a good and loving God, then why does he allow his creation to suffer? If God is all-powerful, then why didn't he stop Hurricane Katrina dead in its tracks to dissipate its rain in the ocean?
According to Christian and Jewish theology, something went very wrong when human history began. Pain and suffering were not in the original plan for creation. Sin entered the human race when the first humans, Adam and Eve, succumbed to Satan's temptation and decided that they, not God, knew what was best for their lives. What Satan offered them sounded like a good thing, but he didn't tell them the whole story. Adam and Eve were free to choose between God and Satan and they chose wrongly. Because of sin, humans threw away their relationship with God and, as a consequence, pain and suffering entered the world. We literally tossed in our lot with the devil.
Even though our ancestors rejected God, he had another plan to free us from our bondage. People can never be reconciled to God by doing good works because of our inherited our sin nature, but God told the prophets that a Messiah would come who would take our sins and our punishments upon himself. The Messiah would clothe himself in humanity, live as a human, suffer as a human, but would not sin as a human. Though completely innocent and free from sin, the Messiah allowed himself to be tortured and killed in our place. That Messiah is Jesus Christ. He defeated sin and death and, when we trust in him, he gives us salvation as a gift.
Sin is still in the world though and, as long as we live here on earth, we live surrounded by sin in bodies that were born affected by sin. The Bible says that the entire creation is burdened with our sins and longs for the day when Jesus will come again to make all things new.
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. (Romans 8:18-23 listen)
God sometimes chooses to heal us and protect us from suffering, but other times he chooses to let us suffer. It sounds like a horrible thing, but God tells us that he has plans that we can't even understand. The book of Job chronicles the immense sufferings of a good and righteous man. He lost his family, except for his wife, his friends and servants, and his health. Yet through it all, he never cursed God. God was silent to Job's pleadings and questions, but finally spoke to him and told Job that his plans for Job's life were higher than Job's plans for his own life.
Then Job answered the Lord and said:
“I know that you can do all things,
and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
‘Hear, and I will speak;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.’
I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear,
but now my eye sees you;
therefore I despise myself,
and repent in dust and ashes.†(Job 42:1-6)
In my own life I have wondered and agonized why God so easily answers certain prayers, but refuses to answer others. God uses pain and suffering to help us grow, to make us more mature, and to make us more like him. If I were a multi-millionaire with a beach house in Bellaire, I would almost certainly grow proud with my achievements and reject God's plan for my life. God has actually done me a favor by not giving a life of luxury.
Before I was afflicted I went astray,
but now I keep your word.
You are good and do good;
teach me your statutes.
...
It is good for me that I was afflicted,
that I might learn your statutes.
The law of your mouth is better to me
than thousands of gold and silver pieces. (Psalms 119:67-72)
So to keep me from being too elated by the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.†Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Corinthians 12:7-10 listen)
Hurricane Katrina is not the plan that God originally had for the people of New Orleans. Because of our sin nature though, we are subject to the consequences of sin upon a fallen creation. God chose not to spare New Orleans from Katrina -- but he also chose that Katrina would not directly hit the city as a Category 5 hurricane. Could the last minute weakening and veering to the east have been the result of the prayers of thousands of people? I think so.
Suffering is not good in and of itself. However, if we give our pain and suffering over to God, he can use it to bring about a greater good. To use an example from my life: God has chosen not to heal me of a painful illness. However, if I give that illness back to him, he can make me a better person than I would have been otherwise and can enable to help others.
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28 listen)
C.S. Lewis wrote that "God whispers to us in our pleasures and shouts to us in our pain." Pain wipes away any notion that we have all we need and don't need God. God allows pain and suffering for reasons known only to him, but Christians have the assurance that our suffering is only temporary and will make us better persons in preparation for spending eternity with God. If we love God, he will turn our pain and suffering into good. In troubles like this, we have no where to turn but to God, and God awaits with open arms.
Thanks DallasMike! Our God is a sovereign God as illustrated in the book of Job. His ways are above ours.
Thank you, BipolarBob -- God has given us Christians a good opportunity to minister to others physically, spiritually, and emotionally through this tragedy.
Please feel free to contribute your insights to my blogsite as well.
Exactly. In a word: sin. I have to wonder what kind of world this would be like without sin. Someday we'll find out.
'cause He was bored?
There was an article of nearly the same title right after the tsunami.
Since God knows everything, He knew this would happen, yet created the world this way, anyhow.
There must be something about how it turns out that He highly values.
The "Birth Pangs" Intensify
August 30, 2005
Most people know that birth pangs intensify and become more frequent as the baby is about to be born. Some translations call this "the beginning of sorrows." And that is exactly what is happening around the world. News' stories suggest Hurricane Katrina was "a once in a lifetime" event. How many times in the last five years have we heard that something, usually a disaster, was "of Biblical proportions? Check out my "Signs in Nature" category to verify this, at the Web site.
There are three "watchmen" I highly respect. Bill Koenig (www.watch.org), John McTernan, (www.branchofdavid.org) and Avner Boskey (www.davidstent.org). Let me touch on some highlights, or are they lowlights?
Hurricane Katrina is America's tsunami though you might not know that unless you're watching Fox News. What you won't hear anywhere is that this week New Orleans was to observe "Southern Decadence Day with 100,000 homosexuals gathering there to commit unspeakable acts in public. Previous events were photographed and sent to the mayor and police officials but they did not care. They had their own lust: The $100,000,000 the event brings in.
Gambling casinos took a hit on the coast as this is where the eye of the storm hit.
And as America forced Israelis out of parts of their land, hurricane Katrina was building in the Atlantic. A Fox reporter said, "It must be an emotional experience (for Americans) to walk away from their homes and not ever live in them again." Same with those forced out in Israel. Israeli homes are being demolished as Gulf Coast homes are demolished.
This was America's greatest "evacuation." Now we have "refugees". Israelis were evacuated and many are refugees living in tents and refugee centers, thanks to America. The Israeli uprooting will affect their entire economy in that some of their finest produce which was exported is now left behind. America's economy could face a steep recession as oil processing refineries were damaged. Plan to see price increases within days. Will this bring our economy down? Major industries will be affected from food delivery, jet fuel, travel, insurance, and so much more with the "ripple effect" of skyrocketing gas prices.
Luke 21 talks about "the sea and the waves roaring" and "men's hearts failing them for fear." We must not stop there. It goes on to say, "When these things begin to happen, look up and know your redemption draws nigh. As Hal Lindsey and I shared the same platform in 2004, we both said, "He is at the door." The "birth pangs" can't get much more intense.
If you're in the area, please consider attending the conference with Hal Lindsey, Sept. 30 - Oct. 1. All details are under "CONFERENCES" at www.olivetreeviews.org. We'll talk about how prophecy signs have escalated in recent years. The Saturday afternoon program considers current deception in the church with other guests.
Everyone has a mantra today. Mine is this: You cannot understand world events without the proper interpretation of Bible prophecy. It's as simple as that.
Let us continue to pray for the "homeless" both in America and Israel. Millions have had their lives torn apart and our greatest contribution to them, other than physical needs, is prayer.
RADIO: I will cover this topic hour one this weekend, Labor Day weekend, with John McTernan, one of the most gifted "watchmen" I know. You can listen live at www.kkms.com if we're not in your town. It will be posted to "radio archives" 2-3 days later. We're live Saturdays 9 - 11 AM with a rebroadcast from 12 - 2 PM Sunday. We are heard in several cities. Check Web site for details. We headquarter out of AM980 KKMS, Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN.
Maybe G-d had nothing to do with it. How can a CAT 1 hurricane go over Florida, become a tropical storm, then somehow turn into a "KILLER CAT 5" with 25 foot storm surge?
Amazing....
Maybe man had something to do with it. Do you think it is possible?
You must be listening to Coast to Coast tonight. I do not discount that at all personally.
I was listening to Scott Stevens a couple of weeks ago and today after look at the TV news reports I thought maybe this guy Scott had a point.
I see he was on Coast to Coast tonight but missed his report. But he has some cool pics of the transformation of Katrina from a tropical storm to the MONSTER CAT 5.
Check out Scott's link.
Katrina Info
The Tsunami that was Katrina
26 August 2005 2115Z Off of the West coast of
Florida while Katrina undergoes rapid intensification.
Many, many odd holes bounded by squares.
29 August 2005 2310Z A closer view
I find this hurricane transformation simply amazing after going over land.
Nice talk'in to ya!
perhaps satan was granted permission as in the case of Job, he obviosly had control of weather that could best be described as tornadic at that tiome.
"Many, many odd holes bounded by squares."
Now that tickles my ignorance.
What makes squares form?
I find it hard to believe that God's plan went awry. No, pain and suffering and sin were part of the plan all along.
The Tree and the Reed
“WELL, little one,” said a Tree to a Reed that was growing at its foot, “why do you not plant your feet deeply in the ground, and raise your head boldly in the air as I do?”
“I am contented with my lot,” said the Reed. “I may not be so grand, but I think I am safer.”
“Safe!” sneered the Tree. “Who shall pluck me up by the roots or bow my head to the ground?” But it soon had to repent of its boasting, for a hurricane arose which tore it up from its roots, and cast it a useless log on the ground, while the little Reed, bending to the force of the wind, soon stood upright again when the storm had passed over.
Aesops Fables
*******
Blaming God for this disaster is insane. Why not give God credit for bringing in that dry air from the Northwest, which caused Hurricane Katrina to veer to the East of New Orleans? Had that not happened, there would be no New Orleans left, and very few alive to rescue.
This might help answer some of the questions you asked yesterday.
For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's.
So why didn't He bring in enough dry air to keep the storm in the Gulf? You're saying He was responsible to do something, but not quite enough. Odd.
I'm not saying that is necessarily what happened. I was merely saying that if someone "blames" God for the disaster, then why not give Him credit for reducing the intensity? I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory, just asking the question.
Go here for hurricanes on the Gulf Coast since the 1500's
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1473774/posts?page=8#8
Frederic was another storm which was in the process of rapidly intensifying prior to landfall of the eye along the Miss/Ala border SW of Mobile. It strengthened from a Cat 1 to a Cat 4 in 30 hours.
see #21 above
NORMALLY, GOD ACTS NORMALLY.
God lets physical nature take its course, and God lets human nature take its course. Cause and effect, action and reaction, --- aren't we human beings supposed to be in control of ourselves, and the sovereigns of our own planet? God lets nature take its course because He expects US to take control.
We're God's children, but we're not His infant witlings. We're His ADULT children. Foolish, wavering, weakened by sin, though -- just like those levees. Yet it's WE who are empowered to act, and fully expected by our Father to do so.
Let's arouse ourselves to be compassionate toward the sufferers, since this is the only way, really, to have any knowledge of, or insight into, the nature of God.
Because an all powerful, all knowing God commands all. If He wanted to spare people, He could, couldn't He?
"Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:4,5)
If the whole plan was so monumentally screwed up from the very start, whose to say His revised plan isn't also a complete screwup?
This reminds me of a story I once heard from my father-in-law (a pastor) about a man who was blind and lame. He prayed to God for a miracle that would change his life. One day he awoke to find that he could see, but when he realized he still could not walk he cursed God for preforming shoddy miracles.
I think a better question is why did we ever build a city that close to the ocean below sea level?
That assumes the plan was static and not fluid.
The decisions and actions of men have consequences; both in this life, and the next.
That beachfront property that used to be so valuable? I doubt many insurance companies are going to write policies for whatever is rebuilt in those areas.
Search and Rescue and Current Needs: http://www.mirawebdesign.com/katrina.html
FLOOD AID UPDATE: Here are some places you can donate to hurricane Katrina relief: (Bumped to top -- scroll down for current posts.)
http://www.redcross.org/
Catholic Charities: http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/news/katrina.cfm
is involved, and probably has lots of resources to draw on in the heavily Catholic New Orleans area.
Austin Bay is recommending Episcopal Relief and Development.http://www.er-d.org/
Liz at Rightalk suggests that animal lovers donate to the
https://secure.hsus.org/01/disaster_relief_fund_2005?
Here's a link to Mennonite Disaster Services http://www.mds.mennonite.net/. The Sanity Inspector says they're highly efficient.
Reader Peter Viditto recommends The Mercy Corps
http://www.mercycorps.org/
Here's the link for Methodist Relief http://www.methodistrelief.org/site/pp.asp?c=bhKNI4PHIpE&b=876335.
The Salvation Army http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/ does good work. (WalMart just gave them a million dollars, but that's just the barest beginning of what's needed.)
Hugh Hewitt recommends Samaritan's Purse http://www.samaritanspurse.com/
Scott Ott recommends Southern Baptist Disaster Relief http://www.namb.net/site/c.9qKILUOzEpH/b.224451/k.7BDB/Disaster_Relief_Homepage.htm
Jay Allen has a further suggestion:
I would suggest people donate through their companies whenever possible. Most major corporations offer matching funds to the dollar for charitable donations. Find who's collecting money for relief efforts, then file for a match through your employer instead of sending to the agency directly.
Not bad -- if your employer is supporting this.
Chuck Simmins is tracking corporate donations http://blog.simmins.org/2005/08/katrina-donations-begin.html
UPDATE: The plan for tomorrow's flood-aid blogburst: I'd like each blogger participating to put up a post recommending a charity, or other action to help, and linking back to this post where I'll keep a comprehensive list of both bloggers and charities. Basically, a Carnival of Hurricane Relief. That way readers of any blog will have ready access to recommendations on all the blogs. If anyone has a better idea, let me know.
Technorati Tags: flood aid, Hurricane Katrina
http://technorati.com/tag/flood%20aid
http://technorati.com/tag/hurricane+katrina
THE MUDVILLE GAZETTE has a massive roundup on the military response to Katrina, which is quite extensive
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/003462.html
Courtesy of Hewitt at http://instapundit.com/
Also Craigslist has lost and found list for family members and those who can help in any way:
http://neworleans.craigslist.org/laf/
Search and Rescue and current needs: http://www.mirawebdesign.com/katrina.html
"M y building this site was an inevitability. I am just the first of a very bright group of individuals who have to look at information that is of varying reliability and quality on a day to day basis. draw conclusions from that data, then present those conclusions of that data to very large audiences."
Had to laugh at this from the "Weather Wars" Site.
Where some see only despair, we see hope. Where some see only pain, we see healing. Where some see all as futile, we see endless opportunity. Where some see the devil in the details, we see God's hand at work and seek to do His will.
No it doesn't. It just takes the given explanation, which is that Plan A failed right from jump street. God created Eden, put Man in it, but did a crap design job, and for some reason also created a defective angel that came back to haunt Him. He killed everyone except Noah, started over. How's that for project management? Then He ends up killing His own Son to forgive us??? It's His show. He created it. What the hell do we have to apologize for?
That assumes that everything you just said was the plan...in other words, 'static.'
Just because I do something that doesn't mean it is supposed to stay the way I originally do it.
If I plant a garden with corn and beans, that doesn't mean that garden should always have corn and beans or that it should always be in that location....if at all.
Amazing quote. This explains why Katrina hit with such devastation. God judged America, just as we judged Israel. We reaped what we sowed.
Oh brother ... the "Oracle" will tell us what's happening. Just don't mention 1988 around Hal.
Several days over 85+ degree surface-temp water in the Gulf of Mexico can easily cause that. No tinfoil required.
Either God did or did not create the world and everything in it and provide it with order. Either He can see all time and creation or He can't.
God being able to see all time is different than an intentional plan -- script -- that everything must follow.
God did create the world, but that does not necessarily mean that everything that happens after the initial creation is a matter of having been scripted.
Actually I don't know. A lot of innocents seem to get pummelled harder than the guilty sometimes.
I chalk a lot of it off to the vagaries of life. Was the Black Plague divine punishment? Who knows?
Well no, but if I design a crap car that doesn't work properly, I can't be that surprised when it fails. Why even make Satan? Why sin, suffering, then absolution? Why not just have absolution from the start and be done with it. Or better yet, just don't have sin/suffering. Makes no sense to me.
Can you believe where they built NO? I knew it was right between the river and the ocean, but I hadn't known it was below sea level and shaped like a birdbath. Total insanity.
It's does to me.
If there's something this all leads to, then that something is more valuable than all the trouble it takes to get there.
Like with a mother enduring uncomfortable pregnancy and difficult delivery to get to that precious child.
Well, maybe areas of the gulf should be refrigerated to a cool 72 degrees during the summer. I know tinfoil required.
Try 90 degree water temperatures, timed perfectly to hit the high tide.
Are they out of His control, or is He purposely sitting on His hands, in your opinion?
Have these people ever read "Candide?"
LOL!
I love that book.
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