Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Lutheran's funeral in Catholic cathedral unusual, but permitted [Rehnquist]
CatholicNewsService.com ^ | 09-06-05 | Patricia Zapor

Posted on 09/07/2005 9:01:37 AM PDT by Salvation

REHNQUIST-CATHEDRAL Sep-6-2005 (570 words) xxxn

Lutheran's funeral in Catholic cathedral unusual, but permitted

By Patricia Zapor
Catholic News Service

WASHINGTON (CNS) -- The announcement that the funeral of Chief Justice William Rehnquist would be held at Washington's St. Matthew Cathedral raised questions about the ecumenical provisions allowing a Lutheran funeral in a Catholic church.

After his Sept. 3 death, the funeral for Rehnquist, a Lutheran, was scheduled for the Catholic cathedral of the Archdiocese of Washington.

The Sept. 7 funeral was to be a Lutheran service, which is permitted in a Catholic church with the approval of the local bishop, said Susan Gibbs, spokeswoman for the archdiocese.

Gibbs said allowing services of another denomination to be held in a Catholic church "is not that common, but we're happy to be able to do it when we can."

St. Matthew's was made available at the request of the Rehnquist family when the date they wished to hold the funeral conflicted with the schedule for the National Cathedral, the Episcopalian-administered church often used for large funerals of Washington public figures of various denominations.

National Cathedral spokesman Gregory Rixon said the cathedral could have been available later in the week, but not on the family's requested date.

Washington Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick said he was pleased the Catholic archdiocese could make St. Matthew's available.

"Like so many other Americans, I was saddened by the death of Chief Justice William Rehnquist," said a statement from Cardinal McCarrick. "I had the privilege of knowing him personally and of being with him many times over the years. He regularly attended the Red Mass, celebrated each October here in our nation's capital, to pray for those in the administration of justice. He was always most gracious and thoughtful in his comments on those occasions. My prayers are with his family as they mourn their loss and with all of us who will miss his wisdom and deep love of the law."

Both the Code of Canon Law and the Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity have provisions that give the local bishop authority to allow services of other faiths in Catholic churches.

The ecumenical norms say that while Catholic churches are generally reserved for Catholic worship the local bishop may decide to allow their use by other faiths if they do not have a place available.

In this case, Gibbs said, the 1,200-seat capacity of St. Matthew's makes it one of the few centrally located churches in Washington available to handle a large congregation. The National Cathedral can seat up to 3,700 people.

Gibbs noted that Rehnquist was a regular visitor to St. Matthew's, participating in the annual Red Mass there every year at the beginning of the court term. She said he attended the Red Mass in all but two of the 33 years he was on the court.

Gibbs said Rehnquist's funeral would in some ways resemble a Catholic Mass, with a liturgy of the word and a familiar-sounding creed, though without a eucharistic liturgy. She said Cardinal McCarrick would welcome participants to the cathedral. The service was to be conducted by Pastors George Evans Jr. and Jeffrey Wilson of the Lutheran Church of the Redeemer in McLean, Va., and the Rev. Jan Lookingbill of Emmanuel Lutheran Church in Bethesda, Md.

After the funeral, Rehnquist was to be buried at Arlington National Cemetery, where his wife, Natalie, was buried in 1991 after her death from ovarian cancer.

END


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Eastern Religions; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Islam; Judaism; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Orthodox Christian; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Religion & Science; Skeptics/Seekers; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; catholiclist; funeral; lutheran; rehnquist; supremecourt
For your information and discussion.
1 posted on 09/07/2005 9:01:38 AM PDT by Salvation
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: All

**Gibbs said Rehnquist's funeral would in some ways resemble a Catholic Mass, with a liturgy of the word and a familiar-sounding creed, though without a eucharistic liturgy.**

We knew that, correct? (Educating the sheeple.)


2 posted on 09/07/2005 9:02:59 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Do you suppose the reason that Rehnquist did not resign was because he didn't want to hear the bickering over who would replace him?


3 posted on 09/07/2005 9:04:30 AM PDT by Eva
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

This sounds highly abusive of what was intended by the law.


4 posted on 09/07/2005 9:45:15 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Welcome to the Cathedral, may he rest in peace.


5 posted on 09/07/2005 11:10:02 AM PDT by InterestedQuestioner ("Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker

Why?


6 posted on 09/07/2005 11:11:28 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: sitetest

The exception to the law (no non-Catholic service in Catholic houses of worship) was made in favor of other Christians who did not have access to facilities large enough for their services.

"Catholic churches are consecrated or blessed buildings which have an important theological and liturgical significance for the Catholic community. They are therefore generally reserved for Catholic worship. However, if priests, ministers or communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church do not have a place or the liturgical objects necessary for celebrating worthily their religious ceremonies, the diocesan Bishop may allow them the use of a church or a Catholic building and also lend them what may be necessary for their services. Under similar circumstances permission may be given to them for interment or for the celebration of services at Catholic cemeteries." (Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism, 137, 25 March 1993)

There is a facility available for this funeral that is much larger than the Washignton Cathedral. The only reason our Church is being loaned out to heretics is because the dates weren't convenient for the family to use a Protestant building. This sort of circumstance is certainly not what was envisioned in making this exception, since the exception made to the law is in favor of the ministers and community of the sects, not the faithful of the sects for private acts (a funeral), and is an exception revolving around a lack of place, not an inopportunity of time.

However, on a bigger question, I find the application of this exception is frequently at least gravely scandalous - i.e. lending our Cathedrals to Protestants to "ordain" Clericettes. The whole procedure is anti-traditional and would be better in my view if it was stopped.

Making an exception for Rhenquist here is simply opening up the exception to the law a little further in the continual effort of AmChurch to open wide the doors to heresy.


7 posted on 09/07/2005 12:31:41 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker

Dear Hermann the Cherusker,

Thanks for the explanation.

I wonder, though, whether it wasn't quite just a matter of inconveniencing the Rehnquist family.

Justice Rehnquist was one of the more important persons in the United States at the time of his death, and I suppose that there are a lot of folks who want to be at the funeral, including, I'm told, President Bush.

It may be that the later date created more than an ordinary inconvenience, and in a sense became closer to a lack of appropriate facility. I'm not sure that Cardinal McCarrick's actions are too far off from what is intended by the law.

As to your wider point, I find myself unqualified to offer an opinion, so, I won't.

Anyway, thanks again for the explanation.


sitetest


8 posted on 09/07/2005 1:19:58 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: sitetest

Facilities aren't to be lent out because people are "important" in the eyes of the world. Otherwise, we'd have to lend out our most beautiful Church for every society wedding demanding it.


9 posted on 09/07/2005 1:32:17 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker

Dear Hermann the Cherusker,

I understand your point, but those in positions of high authority in our government derive their legitimate authority from God, and thus, fulfill their proper stations by executing their just duties.

The services under discussion serve not only the purposes of the family or the obligations of the religious sect involved, but legitimate civil purposes, as well. As a republic, our civil authorities also, in some sense, symbolize our nation. (That was perhaps the chief horror of the Clinton regime, that Mr. Clinton was the symbolic representation of our nation for eight awful years.)

It is good and right for the nation as a whole to have appropriate funerary rites for Justice Rehnquist, and it is good and right for certain civil authorities to be in attendance, including but not limited to the President of the United States, high leaders of Congress, other Justices, etc.

If other dates seriously conflicted with the performance of the important duties of certain of these persons, my perspective is that the Catholic Church makes a contribution to the civil weal by permitting this exception.

Of course, it's important that the Catholic Church never permit Herself to be co-opted by the state, but it doesn't seem inappropriate to me that She might sometimes assist the state in the performance of legitimate state functions.

I agree that it's a bit of a stretch of the rule, but I've seen Cardinal McCarrick make far stretchier stretches in the time that he's been the Ordinary of Washington.


sitetest


10 posted on 09/07/2005 1:54:29 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Under your own Church's position, Lutherans are in "impaired communion" with the Roman Church. Does that make us heretics? If so, I'm sorry, but "here we stand; God help us, we can do no other!"

Redeemer Lutheran is not only in my Synod, but in my District... I wonder if my old pastor, Jon Diethenthaler, who is the District President (= bishop) will lead the service? And why not hold it at St. Andrew's in Silver Spring or Our Savior in Laurel if room is the issue?
11 posted on 09/07/2005 2:04:30 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (Proudly confusing editors and readers since 1981!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: GAB-1955

Note: Pastor Jan is male. The Missouri Synod doesn't ordain women to the role of priest.


12 posted on 09/07/2005 2:05:54 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (Proudly confusing editors and readers since 1981!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

WHAT !


13 posted on 09/07/2005 4:24:31 PM PDT by Rosary (Pray the rosary daily,wear the Brown scapular)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GAB-1955

Lutherans deny the entire Sacramental system - the ministerial priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, the efficacy of absolution. Lutherans deny the main Marian dogmas, they deny indulgences, relics, purgatory, and the intercession of the saints. They deny the canonicity of the deuterocanon. They deny the infallibility and primacy of the Pope. I'd say they are heretics.


14 posted on 09/07/2005 8:14:41 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Salvation; sanewbie

Does anyone else have a hard time believing that National Cathedral nor any large Lutheran Church in DC could take an eraser to the schedule book to accomodate the funeral of the Chief Justice? Surely, there is more here.


15 posted on 09/07/2005 9:07:49 PM PDT by sanormal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
However, on a bigger question, I find the application of this exception is frequently at least gravely scandalous - i.e. lending our Cathedrals to Protestants to "ordain" Clericettes. The whole procedure is anti-traditional and would be better in my view if it was stopped.

Can you cite an incident where a priestess had attempted ordination in a Catholic facility?

Use of buildings for other Christan faiths has gone on for a long time, before the 1993 document.

The 1983 CCL 1183: 3 Provided their own minister is not available, baptized persons belonging to a non-Catholic Church or ecclesial community may, in accordance with the prudent judgment of the local Ordinary, be allowed Church funeral rites, unless it is established that they did not wish this.

Can. 1211 Sacred places are desecrated by acts done in them which are gravely injurious and give scandal to the faithful when, in the judgement of the local Ordinary, these acts are so serious and so contrary to the sacred character of the place that worship may not be held there until the harm is repaired by means of the penitential rite which is prescribed in the liturgical books.

Making an exception for Rhenquist here is simply opening up the exception to the law a little further in the continual effort of AmChurch to open wide the doors to heresy.

Can. 1369 A person is to be punished with a just penalty, who, at a public event or assembly, or in a published writing, or by otherwise using the means of social communication, utters blasphemy, or gravely harms public morals, or rails at or excites hatred of or contempt for religion or the Church.
16 posted on 09/08/2005 6:54:15 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Dominick
Can you cite an incident where a priestess had attempted ordination in a Catholic facility?

1995 - Catholic Cathedral of the Diocese of Metuchen held "ordinations" for the Lutheran "Church" which included the "ordination" of two Clericettes. I personally witnessed this. I've seen it elsewhere too if you need more citations.

Use of buildings for other Christan faiths has gone on for a long time, before the 1993 document.

The 1983 CCL 1183: 3 Provided their own minister is not available, baptized persons belonging to a non-Catholic Church or ecclesial community may, in accordance with the prudent judgment of the local Ordinary, be allowed Church funeral rites, unless it is established that they did not wish this.

This isn't a matter of offering Rehnquist a Catholic funeral, but of having a Lutheran funeral in a Catholic building. Your point simply does not address what will occur. You are confusing the issue.

Can. 1211 Sacred places are desecrated by acts done in them which are gravely injurious and give scandal to the faithful when, in the judgement of the local Ordinary, these acts are so serious and so contrary to the sacred character of the place that worship may not be held there until the harm is repaired by means of the penitential rite which is prescribed in the liturgical books.

Was St. Patrick's desecrated when Amos and Andy held their infamous live radio broadcast of a couple having sex in the pew? I don't recall the Church being reconciled afterwards, but it sure seems like desecration to me.

Can. 1369 A person is to be punished with a just penalty, who, at a public event or assembly, or in a published writing, or by otherwise using the means of social communication, utters blasphemy, or gravely harms public morals, or rails at or excites hatred of or contempt for religion or the Church.

Its very humorous to think I am "uttering blasphemy", "gravely harming public morals", "railing at and exciting hatred or contempt for religion" or "railing at and exciting hatred or contempt for the Church" by saying I find it scandalous to loan out Catholic facilities to Protestants in contravention of the literal reading of Canon Law.

I understand Bishop Loverde of Arlington is looking for recruits to act as persecutors of Catholics. Maybe you could apply. You look like you have all the requisite characteristics.

17 posted on 09/08/2005 7:19:52 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Lutherans deny the main Marian dogmas, they deny indulgences, relics, purgatory, and the intercession of the saints.

Same with most parish CCD programmes nowadays.

18 posted on 09/08/2005 7:23:08 AM PDT by Pio (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Solis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Was St. Patrick's desecrated when Amos and Andy held their infamous live radio broadcast of a couple having sex in the pew?

"Opie and Anthony", details:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/opieanthony1.html
While the acts were serious, they were ejected by Security, so then, what is the judgment of the local Ordinary? I recognize that the CCL puts the responsibility in his hands. Use of the Church for blasphemy, differs from abuse of the Church for blasphemy. In a Church I attended, bums would fall asleep during daily Mass, and sometimes urinate. It is scandalous, but did it require the Church be rededicated? I can't judge that and neither can you, but the CCL gives that competency to the Local Ordinary.

Based on your use of the fictional term, "Amchurch", I would call that railing contempt at the Catholic Church. I guess you didn't like CCL 1369?
19 posted on 09/08/2005 7:38:15 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker

Yep, and there are sound reasons for denying them all. Since this isn't an apologetics thread, I won't go into them here. But you can have divisions over beliefs without falling into heresy. The real heretics are those who deny the divinity of Christ, not whether the host is consubtantiated or transubtantiated. I would have preferred that the Synod bury its own from its own churches personally.


20 posted on 09/08/2005 7:44:29 AM PDT by GAB-1955 (Proudly confusing editors and readers since 1981!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: GAB-1955

I don't disagree with you that the primary heresies are denilas of the Incarnation and Holy Trinity, which Lutherans do not share in. However, holidng those beliefs in common doesn't make us share the same faith, as you are obviously aware.


21 posted on 09/08/2005 11:00:05 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Dominick
Thanks for the correction of the name. Objectively, what was done in St. Patrick's was a desecration, because it was a deliberate affront to religion (unliek the poor bum who falls asleep in the pew and urinates himself). Whether or not it required reconciliation and a rededication is a different matter, and the CCL makes that a subjective Prelatic decision.

Based on your use of the fictional term, "Amchurch", I would call that railing contempt at the Catholic Church. I guess you didn't like CCL 1369?

I have no problem with Canon 1369. If you think it is "railing against the Church" to disagree with how a law is being abused based on the literal reading of the law, then you are making void Canon 212.3.

"Canon 212 §3 [Christ's Faithful] have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church. They have the right also to make their views known to others of Christ's faithful, but in doing so they must always respect the integrity of faith and morals, show due reverence to the Pastors and take into account both the common good and the dignity of individuals."

If you think saying "AmChurch" voids this right, when using it as a collective term to describe those people who have spent the last 40 years ignoring clear directives from Rome and violating the sacred Canons in the name of "the Spirit of Vatican II" and "Ecumenism", then why is my diocese carrying the Wanderer in its Seminary for its Priests and people to read, seeing as nearly every issue uses that term?

22 posted on 09/08/2005 11:09:43 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson