Skip to comments.POPE APPROVES BARRING GAY SEMINARIANS
Posted on 09/19/2005 3:35:59 PM PDT by NYer
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How uncollegial of him. I wonder if U.S. bishops will respond to this.
It's a start, but what is really needed is an Inquisition.
Torquemada Club ping! Cleanup needed in aisle 4!
GO PB17! Clean House!
LOL - Patience...
There was that Origen in the 2nd(?) century - to avoid the temptation of the flesh, he castrated himself. Maybe following his example ought to be made obligatory.
That might run up against the prohibition in Leviticus against marking the body.
Actually, it's PB16...but we know what you meant and share the sentiments...lol!
10. "Sexual orientation" does not constitute a quality comparable to race, ethnic background, etc. in respect to non-discrimination. Unlike these, homosexual orientation is an objective disorder (cf. "Letter," No. 3) and evokes moral concern.
11. There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.
13. Including "homosexual orientation" among the considerations on the basis of which it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead to regarding homosexuality as a positive source of human rights, for example, in respect to so-called affirmative action or preferential treatment in hiring practices. This is all the more deleterious since there is no right to homosexuality (cf. No. 10) which therefore should not form the basis for judicial claims. The passage from the recognition of homosexuality as a factor on which basis it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead, if not automatically, to the legislative protection and promotion of homosexuality. A person's homosexuality would be invoked in opposition to alleged discrimination, and thus the exercise of rights would be defended precisely via the affirmation of the homosexual condition instead of in terms of a violation of basic human rights.
30. Those To Be Excluded; Practical Directives
Advantage to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.
The ironic thing about the Origen castration thing is that he interpreted a passage about castration in the Gospels literally while he was an early major supporter of non-literal Scriptural interpretation.
I mean, heck yeah!
Well, the passage about casting a tempting member away could and should (in this case particularly) be interpreted literally.
I will predict their response for you, Nick:
Sssssshhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrred this, Bruce!
In the case of a faithful struggling with temptations of the flesh, perhaps there is a point when self-mutilation becomes a lesser sin. Even then, the advice would be to ask God rather than a surgeon for help.
A priest, however, in addition to avoiding sin himself should be in a position to teach others. If he had to resort to self-mutilation to avoid sin, he is no priest material.
The point of celibacy is properly ordered sexuality, not denial of sexuality.
Scripture sets high qualifications for leaders within the church. We compromise them at our own peril.
"Okay, so we recieved this on opposite day, that means we should do the opposite of what it says."
I'm not sure of "he is no priest material". There was one Avvakum (born 1621-burned 1682, the founder of "old believers" in Russia, and a very interesting writer). He was counted as leading godly life, both during his lifetime and after his death. Well, he belonged to married clergy. Once, while he was receiving a confession, his flesh became excited - and he immediately put his hand in the candle flame and kept it there till his flesh calmed down. This and other similar acts gave him greater moral authority to place demands on his flock - for he treated himself worse than he treated them.
That was my thought, too, when I read that sentence.
But that is different, as Patriarch Avvakum kept his body intact, and administered a proper confession. Castration is not mortification of flesh -- it insults the Creator.
BRAVO! But they never should have been allowed in anyway.
Not only that, but to whom God has given much, God expects much in return.
His rank was Archpriest (monsignor, should we translate). As for keeping his body intact - he must have ended up with a serious burn. In his religious practice he routinely made use of corporal punishment as proper means of penance. And he actually considered that weakness to be a failing in himself, and repented it bitterly...
But again, mortification of the flesh is not a way to flee the temptation, but rather to defeat it. Mild forms of that are even encouraged, such as fasting. In contrast to any of that, castration offers no redemptive suffering.
**I wonder if U.S. bishops will respond to this.**
Of course, they will. Come will comply; others will defy.
I hate to be a party-pooper, but if this doesn't change church policy, and the previous policy barring homosexuals has been widely ignored... what's the point? The issue to date hasn't been church teaching or policy, it's been the will to enforce it.
Engineering Department is "Go for Full Scale Inquisition".
Come will comply; others will defy.
Some will comply; others will defy.
"The text, which was approved by Pope Benedict at the end of August, says that homosexual men should not be admitted to seminaries even if they are celibate, because their condition suggests a serious personality disorder which detracts from their ability to serve as ministers."
I'm on board with that, but I don't see that, "Must not be admitted on pain of being burned at the stake," phrasing I was hoping for.
A "celebratory" ping!
The latest "ping"!
Should I get started on the cucumber sandwiches?
LOL... Good one. Well, I am confident that our pope knows that he is Papa.
We ladies of the auxiliary have covered our heads and are ready to serve.
What's your point here? Am I supposed to laugh? Clue me in dude.
If you want on/off the ping list let me and little jeremiah know.
You're at it again.
An excellent document and rigurousy fair to those that have been ordained and by the grace of God have remained celibate.
Expect resistance from "progressive" dioceses.
WOnderful news!! I love this Pope!!
And how did you get that "Gee" is my first initial?
The heck with the cucumber sandwiches, crack open the Champagne or shake us up some martinis :-)
You realize, of course, the repercussions that will be forthcoming from this 'formal' announcement.
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