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POPE APPROVES BARRING GAY SEMINARIANS
EWTN ^ | September 19, 2005

Posted on 09/19/2005 3:35:59 PM PDT by NYer

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To: nickcarraway
"How uncollegial of him. I wonder if U.S. bishops will respond to this."

All Hell is going to break loose!! But I don't think much trouble will come from the U.S. bishops. I think they are finally starting to distance themselves from the postmodern, amoral, "world".
51 posted on 09/19/2005 6:52:41 PM PDT by SolomoninSouthDakota (Daschle is gone.)
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To: Teófilo
Expect resistance from "progressive" dioceses.

... like mine :-)

52 posted on 09/19/2005 6:53:18 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
Priests who have already been ordained, if they suffer from homosexual impulses, are strongly urged to renew their dedication to chastity, and a manner of life appropriate to the priesthood.

How about asking for forgiveness and repenting?  Does not the admonitions and prescriptions of Scripture apply here?

53 posted on 09/19/2005 7:10:15 PM PDT by gscc
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To: Desdemona

Don't forget the fire wood.


54 posted on 09/19/2005 7:16:15 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Teófilo
An excellent document and rigurousy fair to those that have been ordained and by the grace of God have remained celibate.

Excellent point.

55 posted on 09/19/2005 7:39:44 PM PDT by bourbon (It's the target that decides whether terror wins.)
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To: Teófilo

I always like asking the following question when I hear a Leftist arrogantly call himself or herself "progressive." Progressing to what: caveman morality, or apostasy in this case.

What about closeted homosexual bishops like Cardinal Mahony or
Bishop Andrew Pataki of the Eparchy of Passaic? Shouldn't they go too?


56 posted on 09/19/2005 8:02:50 PM PDT by JohnRoss
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To: Barnacle

Not if you don't feel like it.


57 posted on 09/19/2005 8:31:26 PM PDT by Old Seadog (Birthdays start out being fun. But too many of them will kill you..)
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To: GSlob

I hope you aren't serious.


58 posted on 09/19/2005 8:41:25 PM PDT by SaintThomasMorePrayForUs
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To: SaintThomasMorePrayForUs

Au contraire. Getting them gelded would have salutary effect.


59 posted on 09/19/2005 8:47:33 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: JohnRoss

There seems to be a lot of mean-spiritedness in this forum. I am a proudly traditional Catholic, yet I suggest that we pray for homosexuals while at the same time offering our religious assent to Benedict's instruction.


60 posted on 09/19/2005 8:50:15 PM PDT by SaintThomasMorePrayForUs
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To: GSlob

So sinning against the physical integrity of the human person is a good thing? You forget that Origen was a heretic who denied the divinity of Christ. I do not follow heretics into error, certainly one as ludacris as to mutilate healthy flesh. It is not the man's penis that causes him to sin. It is his weak will. Removing the penis and leaving the will intact is hardly a solution. You forget your place when you suggest such things.


61 posted on 09/19/2005 8:53:07 PM PDT by SaintThomasMorePrayForUs
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To: SaintThomasMorePrayForUs
I have read a lot of very novel solutions to the sins of these men who are supposed to be Shepard's of Christ's Church.  I have not even once heard the Biblical prescription to a very serious problem.  It seems that many have become so jaded as to having these men amongst them that they think this is a matter of jest.

1 Corinthians 5
Expel the Immoral Brother! 

9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

62 posted on 09/19/2005 9:13:27 PM PDT by gscc
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To: NYer
Instrumentum Laboris for apostolic visitation
Read the document used for seminary evaluations [pdf]

63 posted on 09/19/2005 9:27:26 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Teófilo

I agree with you, its way too entrenched. How do they expect to enforce it, some churches are pretty much de facto schismatic anyhow.


64 posted on 09/19/2005 9:39:50 PM PDT by SaintDismas (Jest becuz you put yer boots in the oven, don't make it bread)
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To: DBeers

Great news. I'll be a-pinging later tonight or tomorrow AM. Just walked in the door.


65 posted on 09/19/2005 10:07:21 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

Oh, you got this one too! Can't I have any fun being the bearer of good news?


66 posted on 09/19/2005 10:08:32 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: Teófilo

"those (men who suffer from SSAD) that have been ordained and by the grace of God have remained celibate."

My, you will keep insisting that such things happen, won't you?


67 posted on 09/19/2005 10:16:21 PM PDT by dsc
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To: sandyeggo
The wheels turn slowly, don't they?

Well, maybe it just means that the gear ratio was set for highest torque conditions in climbing over all the dissent. It appears to be time to move into overdrive now for high speed.

68 posted on 09/19/2005 11:09:05 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: annalex
Castration is not mortification of flesh -- it insults the Creator.

Can we use chastity belts?

69 posted on 09/19/2005 11:11:07 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: SolomoninSouthDakota

What evidence is there of this?


70 posted on 09/19/2005 11:31:24 PM PDT by nickcarraway (I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
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To: DBeers

What's that? Do you Spanish Inquisition or the Holy Inquisition? May I ask are you Catholic?


71 posted on 09/20/2005 1:03:34 AM PDT by DoirVue
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To: NYer



It seems to me that Consecrated Life would be mean salvation to an homosexual. As a priest he would have to be celebrate. The Holy Father has already said that the sin is bad not the sinner however the sinner should avoid committing the sin. Just like a dipsomaniac. As the cannon say ""all the faithful form a holy and royal priesthood, offer spiritual sacrifices through Jesus Christ and proclaim the greatness of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" (cf 1 Pet 2:5. 9).(4) In Christ, his entire Mystical body is united to the Father through the Holy Spirit for the salvation of all men." Because "Through consecration, the priest "receives a spiritual 'power' as a gift which is a participation in the authority with which Jesus Christ, through his Spirit, guides the Church". again the Cannons.

I can't find this on the Vatican web page. My Italian is Italian and Latin are great. I'm a little suspect. Because John Paul II has spoken on this since 1994.


72 posted on 09/20/2005 1:37:03 AM PDT by DoirVue
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To: SolomoninSouthDakota

What hell CAN break lose? I think the term "homosexual trendacies" is a little losy goosy for the THe Holy See
bureaucrats with tow thousand years of writing stuff like this. And I think it should be the Bishop or the Primate of the order who makes the call. In every country Bishops have National Conferences but those Conferences don't exist in t he Church's structure and the Diocese is completely and wholly responsible for its priests if the Bishops accepts them.
So remember seminaries "No Show Tumes"


73 posted on 09/20/2005 1:48:20 AM PDT by DoirVue
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To: NYer
”…Pope Benedict XVI has given his approval to a new Vatican policy document…The Instruction does not represent a change in...policy.

Huh???

74 posted on 09/20/2005 4:15:31 AM PDT by HarleyD ("...and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." Act 13:48)
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To: Desdemona

Hold off for a couple of days.

We still haven't seen the whites of the eyes of those who will resist; but not to worry--they'll show up in the weekend Op Eds in the papers...


75 posted on 09/20/2005 4:23:35 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Petrosius

"Enforcement"?

TTGC (see the tagline) will be happy to help. Not only with those Bishops who resist-but with those who refuse the eviction notices.


76 posted on 09/20/2005 4:25:14 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: SaintThomasMorePrayForUs

Please: show examples of "mean-spiritedness."

Frankly, the meanest people I've met are generally queers.


77 posted on 09/20/2005 4:27:22 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat
Don't forget the fire wood.

Oh, yes.

78 posted on 09/20/2005 4:39:50 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: SaintThomasMorePrayForUs
There seems to be a lot of mean-spiritedness in this forum.

We will pray for the disordered, but we have been praying for this for so long, that to actually see it happen is a joyous occasion.

79 posted on 09/20/2005 4:42:25 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: ninenot
We still haven't seen the whites of the eyes of those who will resist; but not to worry--they'll show up in the weekend Op Eds in the papers...

They've already started crawling out from under rocks.

80 posted on 09/20/2005 4:44:51 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: HarleyD

The document is new but it is a restatement of what has always been policy (but not enforced for quite some time).

It will be interesting to see if they are really serious about it this time. The US Catholic clergy is a joke everywhere I go in Europe, btw; their reputation for homosexuality is so established that it's going to take a long time to overcome it. This is not to say that the European clergy don't have problems, and that there are not a few fruits among them, but a full-fledged gay culture has generally not taken root there the way it has among the US clergy.

If the Vatican is really serious about this, it's going to mean some major upheavals in the US, which would be good on a number of levels.


81 posted on 09/20/2005 4:45:17 AM PDT by livius
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To: NYer
because their condition suggests a serious personality disorder which detracts from their ability to serve as ministers.

What's that sound I hear?

I've heard it before.

Oh yeah, the sound of liberals gnashing their teeth and rending their clothes.

82 posted on 09/20/2005 4:45:51 AM PDT by ladtx ( "Remember your regiment and follow your officers." Captain Charles May, 2d Dragoons, 9 May 1846)
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To: Desdemona

I think there will be an outbreak of full-fledged liberal hysteria about this. They've been sort of distracted by Katrina, but heck, there's always a little time left over to attack the Church.

I'm also expecting lawsuits. This letter affects the entire Church, not just the US, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Canadians tried to legislate against the Church or enforce their "anti-discrimination" laws against it. They've talked about this in the past.


83 posted on 09/20/2005 4:50:46 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius
I think there will be an outbreak of full-fledged liberal hysteria about this.

Yes. I expect a USCCB announcement to soften the blow shortly. How they are going to enforce a rule, if you will, that they have been flaunting for decades is beyond me.

I'm also expecting lawsuits.

Wouldn't surprise me. The Canadians might give it a try, but when you are up against no real crime committed and no cover-up, it's a little hard to do.

84 posted on 09/20/2005 4:56:32 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: ladtx
Oh yeah, the sound of liberals gnashing their teeth and rending their clothes.

The breaking of porcelain caps and tearing of designer duds just back from the dry cleaner? Ooops.

85 posted on 09/20/2005 4:58:50 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: GSlob
Well, the passage about casting a tempting member away could and should (in this case particularly) be interpreted literally.

Canon 1 of the Council of Nicea forbids such "violence" by choice and to be retained as a priest. I don't think this canon has been overturned. Apparently, it must have been practiced for it to be specifically addressed in the very first canon.

"To those who can..."

Regards

86 posted on 09/20/2005 5:01:05 AM PDT by jo kus
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To: Desdemona
I expect a USCCB announcement to soften the blow shortly.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. The national bishops' conferences are going to be one of BXVI's most difficult challenges because they are bound and determined to maintain the status quo. It's been just fine for them, thank you - they get to swan off to pointless meetings in comfy hotels, have the press fawn over them for their liberal positions, and - well, further speculation might be uncharitable.

These organizations have no canonical status in Church governance, but they are a real obstacle to any attempt to exert authority from Rome.

87 posted on 09/20/2005 5:10:49 AM PDT by livius
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To: GSlob

Origen --- who castrated himself --- is regarded by the Church as having committed a grave wrong. As Augustine (?) said, "It's not the corrupt body that leads the pure soul astray, it's the corrupt soul that leads the pure body astray."


88 posted on 09/20/2005 5:24:53 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Credo in Unam, Sanctam, Catholicam, et Apostolicam Ecclesiam)
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To: Petrosius
Catholic leaders have consistently taught that homosexual men should not be ordained to the priesthood. Pope John XXIII approved a formal policy to that effect, which still remains in effect. However, during the 1970s and 1980s, that policy was widely ignored, particularly in North America.

ENFORCEMENT?

So much of it comes down to bishops' misbehavior. Refusal to use the Shepherd's Crozier to protect the sheep and dismay the wolves.... and not t'other way around.

What we need is not just a reiteration of the traditional teaching and discipline of the Church as they apply to homosexuals, but a major renewal of the procedures by which we can get rid of bad, disobedient bishops. I remember reading the rite for stripping a bishop of his ecclesial power. Impressive. Bell, book, and candle.

Recall that the greatest Catholic artists in all of history --- Michelangelo and Dante --- portrayed bishops in Hell; and the greatest preacher in Christendom --- St. John Chrysostom --- said that the floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.

I don't want them to be in Hell, mind you. I'd just like to scare the hell out of them.

89 posted on 09/20/2005 5:39:31 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Credo in Unam, Sanctam, Catholicam, et Apostolicam Ecclesiam)
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To: NYer
Enforcement? Disciplining by all means (such as excommunication/de-frocking if needed) for those who drag feet/disobey? Including even bishops/archbishops/cardinals if they drag feet/disobey? I'm delighted at Benedict XVI's policy, but all too often for the past 35 years or so, a lot of US bishops have a history of ignoring policy/or making their own, and getting away with it.
90 posted on 09/20/2005 6:16:25 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (tired of all the shucking and jiving)
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To: Desdemona
The breaking of porcelain caps and tearing of designer duds just back from the dry cleaner? Ooops.

LOL! Thanks for the morning laugh.

91 posted on 09/20/2005 6:21:35 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: DoirVue
And I think it should be the Bishop or the Primate of the order who makes the call.

*And why ought we care about your personal opinions opposing the Pope on this issue? What is your expertise in this area?

92 posted on 09/20/2005 6:35:54 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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Comment #93 Removed by Moderator

To: ninenot
Frankly, the meanest people I've met are generally queers

*AMEN, brother

94 posted on 09/20/2005 6:36:56 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: NYer

Benedict!


95 posted on 09/20/2005 6:48:47 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: SaintThomasMorePrayForUs
Ludacris (n): A XXI Century American "rap" artist, known for vulgar and obscene lyrics.

ludicrous (adj): Laughable or hilarious because of obvious absurdity or incongruity.

96 posted on 09/20/2005 7:48:29 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: dsc
Here is a quote for today. I think it applies to this thread.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005
Sts. Andrew Kim Taegon, Priest, Martyr, Paul Chong Hasang, Martyr and Their Companions, Martyrs (Memorial)
First Reading:
Psalm:
Gospel:
Ezra 6:7-8, 12, 14-20
Psalm 122:1-5
Luke 8:19-21

Disorder in society is the result of disorder in the family.

-- St Angela Merici


97 posted on 09/20/2005 7:52:53 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: JohnRoss

On Progressives:

"Anyone who is so 'progressive' as not to remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God; whoever remains in the teachings has the Father and the Son." 2 John 1:9


98 posted on 09/20/2005 8:04:05 AM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: dsc

For what it's worth, I have a pile of kindling and an ample supply of tinder boxes for when the call goes forth. Can you bring the stakes?


99 posted on 09/20/2005 9:33:30 AM PDT by Romish_Papist (New photos on my FR Page.)
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To: ninenot

Need a strong-arm tattooed yet unabashedly faithful Papist with firsthand working knowledge of military tactics on this little foray? Slide me an application for the TTGC. Heh.


100 posted on 09/20/2005 9:39:18 AM PDT by Romish_Papist (New photos on my FR Page.)
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