Skip to comments.How I led Catholics Out of the Church
Posted on 09/28/2005 4:44:24 PM PDT by NYer
I was a Protestant for twenty years before I became a Catholic. Working as a youth leader, campus and prison evangelist, and church pastor, I led many people including friends and relatives out of the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, it was surprisingly easy. My formula for getting Catholics to leave the Church usually consisted of three steps.
STEP 1: Get Catholics to have a conversion experience in a Protestant setting.
Most Fundamentalist, Evangelical, and charismatic Protestant churches have dynamic youth programs, vibrant Wednesday and Sunday evening services, and friendly small-group bible studies. In addition, they host special crusades, seminars and concerts. At the invitation of a Protestant friend, a Catholic may begin attending one or more of these events while still going to Sunday Mass at his local parish.
Most Protestant services proclaim a simple gospel: repent from sin and follow Christ in faith. They stress the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus and the reward of eternal life. Most of the Catholics who attend these services are not accustomed to hearing such direct challenges to abandon sin and follow Christ. As a result, many Catholics experience a genuine conversion.
Protestants should be commended for their zeal in promoting conversions. Catholic leaders need to multiply the opportunities for their people to have such conversions in Catholic settings. The reason is simple. About five out of ten people adopt the beliefs of the denomination where they have their conversion. This percentage is even higher for those who had profound conversions or charismatic experiences that were provided by Protestants. (Believe me, I know; I was a graduate of an Assembly of God college and a youth minister in two charismatic churches.)
Protestant pastors, evangelists, youth leaders, and lay ministers are acutely aware that conversion experiences in Protestant settings often lead to a Protestant faith and church membership. Why do so many Catholic leaders fail to see this? Why are they so nonchalant about a process that has pulled hundreds of thousands of Catholics out of the Church?
STEP 2: Give their conversion a Protestant interpretation.
A genuine conversion is one of life's most precious experiences, comparable to marriage or the birth of a child. Conversion awakens a deep hunger for God. Effective Protestant ministries train workers to follow up on this spiritual longing.
Before a stadium crusade, I would give follow-up workers a six-week training course. I showed them how to present a Protestant interpretation of the conversion experience with a selective use of bible verses. The scripture of choice was of course John 3:3, the "born-again" verse: "Jesus declared, 'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.'
I used the "touch and go" scripture technique, similar to that used by pilots training for landings and takeoffs. We would briefly touch down on John 3:3 to show that being born again was necessary for eternal life. Then I would describe conversion in terms of being born again. We would make a hasty takeoff before reading John 3:5 which stresses the necessity of being "born of water and spirit." I never mentioned that for 20 centuries the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, echoing the unanimous teaching of the Church fathers, understood this passage as referring to the Sacrament of Baptism! And I certainly never brought up Titus 3:5 ("He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit") as a parallel reference to John 3:5.
In my experience as a Protestant, all the Catholics who had a conversion in a Protestant setting lacked a firm grasp of their Catholic faith.
In twenty years of Protestant ministry, I never met a Catholic who knew that John 3:3-8 describes the sacrament of Baptism. It wasn't hard to convince them to disregard the sacraments along with the Church that emphasized the sacraments.
Proverbs says: "He who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him" (18:17). Catholics without a scriptural foundation for their Catholic beliefs never hear "the rest of the story." My selective use of scripture made the Protestant perspective seem so absolutely sure. Over time, this one-sided approach to scripture caused Catholics to reject their Catholic faith.
STEP 3: Accuse the Catholic church of denying salvation by grace.
Catholics often consider Protestants who proselytize to be bigoted, narrow-minded, or prejudiced. This is unfair and inaccurate; a profound charity energizes their misguided zeal.
There was only one reason I led Catholics out of the Church: I thought they were on their way to hell. I mistakenly thought the Catholic Church denied that salvation was by grace; I knew that anyone who believed this wasn't going to heaven. Out of love for their immortal souls, I worked tirelessly to convert them.
I used Ephesians 2:8-9 to convince Catholics that it was imperative for them to leave the Church:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.
First I would say, "The Bible says that salvation is by grace and not by works. Right?" Their answer was always yes. Then I would say, "The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by works. Right?" (I never met a Catholic who did not say yes. Every Catholic I met during my twenty years of ministry confirmed my misconception that Catholicism taught salvation is by works instead of grace.) Finally, I would declare, "The Catholic Church is leading people to hell by denying salvation is by grace. You'd better join a church that teaches the true way to heaven."
Because I would also do a "touch and go" in Ephesians, I rarely quoted verse 10 which says, "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Listen carefully to stadium evangelists, televangelists, and radio preachers. Nine times out of ten they will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 with great emphasis and never mention verse 10.
We are not slaves futilely trying to earn salvation by doing "works of the law" (Eph. 2:8-9). Yet as sons of God we are inspired and energized by the Holy Spirit to do "good works" as we cooperate with our heavenly father in extending the Kingdom of God (Eph. 2:10). Catholicism believes and teaches the full message of Ephesians 2:8-10, without equivocating or abbreviating the truth.
For twenty centuries the Catholic Church has faithfully taught that salvation is by grace. Peter the first pope said, "We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved" (Acts 15:11). The Catechism of the Catholic Church, fully endorsed by Pope John Paul II, says, "Our justification comes from the grace of God" (section 1996).
Protestantism started when Martin Luther declared that we are justified (made righteous) by faith alone. At the time I was leading Catholics out of the Church, I wasn't aware that Martin Luther had added the word alone to his translation of Romans 3:28 in order to prove his doctrine. (The word alone is not found in any contemporary Protestant English translation of Romans 3:28.) I didn't realize that the only place the bible mentions "faith alone" in the context of salvation is in James 2:24, where the idea of faith alone is explicitly refuted: "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." This verse was troubling, but I either ignored it, or twisted it to mean something other that what the verse and its context clearly taught.
Should Catholics participate in Protestant events?
I have no objection to Catholics participating in Protestant-oriented events and worthwhile ecumenical activities provided that:
Unfortunately, the majority of Catholic men born after WWII don't meet the above conditions. For them, attending Protestant functions may be opening a door that will lead them right out of the Catholic Church.
There are now thousands of Catholic men on the brink of leaving the one Church Christ died to establish. I recently heard of a group of Catholic men who decided not to consult the Catechism of the Catholic Church in their small-group bible study. They believed that all they needed was scripture alone. Three of these men claimed that they no longer believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I can tell you from experience where this group is headed: straight out of the Catholic Church.
Over the past three decades, thousands of Catholics have left the Church for Protestant pastures. The largest church in America is the Catholic Church; the second largest group of Christians in America is former-Catholics. The Catholic men's movement has a solemn obligation to help men discover the biblical and historical roots of their Catholic faith. Then, rather than leaving, they will become instruments to help others discover the treasures of Catholicism.
Remember that a man who leaves the Church will often take his family with him for generations. It took my family four hundred years 10 generations to come back to the Church after a generation of my ancestors in Norway, England, Germany and Scotland decided to leave the Catholic Church.
As one whose family has made the round-trip back to Catholicism, let me extend a personal plea to Catholic men, especially the leaders of various Catholic men's groups: don't put untrained Catholics in a Protestant setting. They might gain a short-term religious experience, but they take the long-term risk of losing their faith. It would be highly irresponsible to expose them to Protestantism before they are fully exposed to Catholicism.
At my dad's funeral twenty-nine years ago, I tearfully sang his favorite hymn, Faith of Our Fathers. Little did my dad, a minister's son, or I realize that the true faith of our forefathers was Roman Catholicism. Every day I thank God for bringing me back to the ancient Church of my ancestors. Every year God gives me breath on this earth I will keep proclaiming to both my Protestant brethren and to cradle Catholics the glorious faith of our fathers.
Please ping any 'former' catholics you have met in this forum. Thank you!
The confession of a repentant protestant.
The author refers to "Catholic faith," as if to be distinct from "Protestant faith." Should we be exercising and encouraging "Christian faith"?
What is there to be repentant of? Is it a sin to be a "Protestant"?
If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
They're going fast!
I call BS. This guy was a fake while a protestant or else he is now.
Yes, but that could be independent of your religious faith.
I hope this isn't an indication you are looking for a fight?
Maybe ... I don't see a lot of men with that much spiritual gumption, though. I see more Protestant men dutifully, even cheerfully, coming to Mass with their Catholic wives and children.
The main problem with this author (Steve Woods) is that he looks at Protestantism through the lens of the Assemblies of God. His narrow view of the Protestant faith makes for a poor understanding and contrast to the Catholic faith...
(i.e. he went from misguided to mistaken).
Good read. But be careful. The Catholics on this site hate being challenged and will turn nasty quick if you challenge them.
A generous man, I'm sure! My husband and I converted together, which I consider a tremendous grace. We've had difficulties in our marriage over the years, but conflicting religious belief hasn't been one of them.
That's all right. I used to be one of them until I woke up to the truth.
I don't think it's anti-Catholic...it just points out what isn't so obvious to everyone.
This question has been answered here many times. Here is a good response.
Not me. My girlfriend was a convert to Catholicism and I told she could go to church all she wants, but without me. Thankfully she's never been back in the two years I've been dating her.
You could also try understanding Judaism by reading The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. It would be less harmful.
You could try understanding economics by reading Das Kapital. It would be more enlightening.
You could try understanding patriotism by listening to Cindy Sheehan. It would be more honest.
You could try understanding race relations by reading The Turner Diaries. It would be more honest.
I've seen that in more than one family.
I was RCIA sponsor about 5 years ago for a man in his 50's who was joining the Church after more than 25 years of marriage to a Catholic. He'd been active in their parishes all that time! His wife hadn't received Communion since their marriage, because he had previously been married and divorced. It was very touching to see them walk up to receive Communion together!
You can count me as a former Catholic who intends to remain a former Catholic forever.
This is something I commented on recently:
There is no contradiction in what Paul and James are saying. Paul makes it clear that faith is a gift to us from God. James makes it clear that a person who is not doing good works does not have faith. Good works are a natural outgrowth of living in Jesus Christ because with Him directing our lives we cannot avoid exhibiting good works which He does through us. Our faith makes Him LORD of our life, then He begins doing good works through us precisely because He is genuinely living in us.
So, without faith there will be no selfless good works (think Christian women held prisoner by the Taliban, as opposed to giving to Charity because it benefits us in the form of a tax write off), but a person with faith will always exhibit selfless good works -- as in James' orphans and widows, two groups that will not benefit someone to care for [Jam 1:27] ie. Muslim women and children in Afghanistan under oppressive Talibanic rule.
That's your problem.
IMHO, we should be encouraginbg Catholic faith.
But, then again, I am a committed, believing and practicing Catholc.
So good it's worth a cut-n-paste:
As a Catholic, I believe that I was saved in baptism, I am being saved, and I hope I will be saved.
It's simple: Scripture teaches that ones final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:3146). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
Salvation can not be earned. Salvation is a gift from God, pure Grace, that we did not merit and do not deserve. Jesus Christ died for our sake and for our salvation. Like any gift, his dead and resurrection can be denied.
"See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but Gods kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:2629, 2 Pet. 2:2021).
Jesus declared: Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven (Matt. 7:21)."
One Catholic web-site has a good response for the question "Are you saved?"
"As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:58), but Im also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:910, 1 Cor. 3:1215). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:1113).
God bless you all.
22 posted on 07/26/2002 1:50:42 AM EDT by Gophack
Ooooooh, I think Steve Woods touched a hot button.
THis shoud be an interesting thread.
Mark 10 (live everlasting is salvation):
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, a certain man, running up and kneeling before him, asked him: Good Master, what shall I do that I may receive life everlasting?
18 And Jesus said to him: Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, bear not false witness, do no fraud, honour thy father and mother.
20 But he answering, said to him: Master, all these things I have observed from my youth.
21 And Jesus, looking on him, loved him and said to him: One thing is wanting unto thee. Go, sell whatsoever thou hast and give to the poor: and thou shalt have treasure in heaven. And come, follow me.
22 Who being struck sad at that saying, went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
What difference does that make? What does a Protestant base his faith on? His own interpretation of the Scriptures. Whether he is an AOG or a Baptist, you are relying on yourself to figure out what God wants ans what He said, rather then listening to what HE said.
and one of them shows up!
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Nothing in my Catholic past ever mentioned this.
Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41
It's a great answer.
Not in isolation, as a stand-along sentence. That's why it was part of a larger context discussing the comprehensive Catholic view of salvation.
This particular statement comes from 1 Peter 3: 21-22, "Baptism, which corresponds to this [to the rescue of Noah and his family from the Flood], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him."
That is, "stand-alone."
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