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How I led Catholics Out of the Church
Catholic Educators ^ | September 2005 | Steve Wood

Posted on 09/28/2005 4:44:24 PM PDT by NYer

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Steve Wood is the founder of St. Joseph's Covenant Keepers (SJCK), a dynamic apostolate for Catholic men. For more information on SJCK, or to find out about men's conferences in your area, please call 1-800-705-6131 or (941) 764-7725.
1 posted on 09/28/2005 4:44:25 PM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...

Please ping any 'former' catholics you have met in this forum. Thank you!


2 posted on 09/28/2005 4:46:13 PM PDT by NYer
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To: txzman; olde north church; kidd

The confession of a repentant protestant.


3 posted on 09/28/2005 4:54:26 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
Over time, this one-sided approach to scripture caused Catholics to reject their Catholic faith.

The author refers to "Catholic faith," as if to be distinct from "Protestant faith." Should we be exercising and encouraging "Christian faith"?

4 posted on 09/28/2005 5:00:28 PM PDT by My2Cents (The political battles of our day are battles over morality, between the haves and the have nots.)
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To: NYer
The confession of a repentant protestant.

What is there to be repentant of? Is it a sin to be a "Protestant"?

5 posted on 09/28/2005 5:01:29 PM PDT by My2Cents (The political battles of our day are battles over morality, between the haves and the have nots.)
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To: RnMomof7
Heads up, Mom.


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
They're going fast!

6 posted on 09/28/2005 5:09:45 PM PDT by rdb3 (NON-conservative, American exceptionalist here.)
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To: NYer

I call BS. This guy was a fake while a protestant or else he is now.


7 posted on 09/28/2005 5:11:04 PM PDT by rollinginmybuggy (The Electric Amish)
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To: My2Cents
I'm an unrepentant Protestant member of the Catholic ping lists. I'm all screwed up.
8 posted on 09/28/2005 5:12:12 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: cripplecreek
I'm all screwed up.

Yes, but that could be independent of your religious faith.

9 posted on 09/28/2005 5:14:44 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky

It is.


10 posted on 09/28/2005 5:15:22 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: NYer

I hope this isn't an indication you are looking for a fight?


11 posted on 09/28/2005 5:15:39 PM PDT by rollinginmybuggy (The Electric Amish)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer
Or you can read the book by Rick Jones...Understanding Roman Catholicism

Understanding Roman Catholicism online version

13 posted on 09/28/2005 5:24:24 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: All
So... I'll go out on a limb here and I'm not looking for a fight. I want to just ask a simple question to my Catholic friends here. Assume I am a lost sinner on my way to hell. What must I do to be saved?
14 posted on 09/28/2005 5:25:53 PM PDT by DocRock (Osama said, "We love death, the U.S. loves life, that is the main difference between us.")
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To: NYer
Remember that a man who leaves the Church will often take his family with him

Maybe ... I don't see a lot of men with that much spiritual gumption, though. I see more Protestant men dutifully, even cheerfully, coming to Mass with their Catholic wives and children.

15 posted on 09/28/2005 5:29:09 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Start the revolution - I'll bring the tea and muffins!)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer
"In addition, they host special crusades"
Must be nice to have a few special crusades now and then. IIRC, for the duration of crusading the crusaders were granted remission of debts, stay of all court proceedings against them, and - most important of all - tax forgiveness!. Looks like an appealing package, doesn't it? Sort of unlimited Roth IRA.
17 posted on 09/28/2005 5:29:47 PM PDT by GSlob
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

The main problem with this author (Steve Woods) is that he looks at Protestantism through the lens of the Assemblies of God. His narrow view of the Protestant faith makes for a poor understanding and contrast to the Catholic faith...

(i.e. he went from misguided to mistaken).


19 posted on 09/28/2005 5:31:03 PM PDT by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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To: NYer
Having only recently read the Bible and the CCC, I see the folly in sola scriptura. You end up playing one apostle off another (Paul v. James) and never asking the question, "What did Jesus (God!) have to say about that subject?"

Something funny to note. My cousin and her mom are both Evangelicals. My wife sends them notes from her Catholic Bible study, and they always comment how great and enlightened the notes are!
20 posted on 09/28/2005 5:31:37 PM PDT by opticks
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: AlaskaErik

Good read. But be careful. The Catholics on this site hate being challenged and will turn nasty quick if you challenge them.


22 posted on 09/28/2005 5:34:27 PM PDT by rollinginmybuggy (The Electric Amish)
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To: sandyeggo

A generous man, I'm sure! My husband and I converted together, which I consider a tremendous grace. We've had difficulties in our marriage over the years, but conflicting religious belief hasn't been one of them.


23 posted on 09/28/2005 5:35:02 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Start the revolution - I'll bring the tea and muffins!)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: rollinginmybuggy
Good read. But be careful. The Catholics on this site hate being challenged and will turn nasty quick if you challenge them.

That's all right. I used to be one of them until I woke up to the truth.

25 posted on 09/28/2005 5:36:04 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: sandyeggo
Do NOT read this book if you really want to know about Catholicism. The book is an extra-long anti-Catholic tract.

I don't think it's anti-Catholic...it just points out what isn't so obvious to everyone.

26 posted on 09/28/2005 5:38:29 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: DocRock
What must I do to be saved?

This question has been answered here many times. Here is a good response.

28 posted on 09/28/2005 5:41:03 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Tax-chick
see more Protestant men dutifully, even cheerfully, coming to Mass with their Catholic wives and children.

Not me. My girlfriend was a convert to Catholicism and I told she could go to church all she wants, but without me. Thankfully she's never been back in the two years I've been dating her.

29 posted on 09/28/2005 5:41:06 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: AlaskaErik; All
Or you can read the book by Rick Jones...Understanding Roman Catholicism

You could also try understanding Judaism by reading The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. It would be less harmful.

You could try understanding economics by reading Das Kapital. It would be more enlightening.

You could try understanding patriotism by listening to Cindy Sheehan. It would be more honest.

You could try understanding race relations by reading The Turner Diaries. It would be more honest.

30 posted on 09/28/2005 5:43:30 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: sandyeggo
waited to convert until after his mom passed away

I've seen that in more than one family.

I was RCIA sponsor about 5 years ago for a man in his 50's who was joining the Church after more than 25 years of marriage to a Catholic. He'd been active in their parishes all that time! His wife hadn't received Communion since their marriage, because he had previously been married and divorced. It was very touching to see them walk up to receive Communion together!

31 posted on 09/28/2005 5:45:09 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Start the revolution - I'll bring the tea and muffins!)
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To: NYer
Please ping any 'former' catholics you have met in this forum. Thank you!

You can count me as a former Catholic who intends to remain a former Catholic forever.

32 posted on 09/28/2005 5:45:10 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: opticks
You end up playing one apostle off another (Paul v. James) and never asking the question, "What did Jesus (God!) have to say about that subject?"

This is something I commented on recently:

There is no contradiction in what Paul and James are saying. Paul makes it clear that faith is a gift to us from God. James makes it clear that a person who is not doing good works does not have faith. Good works are a natural outgrowth of living in Jesus Christ because with Him directing our lives we cannot avoid exhibiting good works which He does through us. Our faith makes Him LORD of our life, then He begins doing good works through us precisely because He is genuinely living in us.

So, without faith there will be no selfless good works (think Christian women held prisoner by the Taliban, as opposed to giving to Charity because it benefits us in the form of a tax write off), but a person with faith will always exhibit selfless good works -- as in James' orphans and widows, two groups that will not benefit someone to care for [Jam 1:27] ie. Muslim women and children in Afghanistan under oppressive Talibanic rule.

33 posted on 09/28/2005 5:45:24 PM PDT by bondserv (God governs our universe and has seen fit to offer us a pardon. )
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To: AlaskaErik

How nice.


34 posted on 09/28/2005 5:45:45 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Start the revolution - I'll bring the tea and muffins!)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: AlaskaErik
I don't think

That's your problem.

36 posted on 09/28/2005 5:46:24 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: My2Cents

IMHO, we should be encouraginbg Catholic faith.

But, then again, I am a committed, believing and practicing Catholc.


37 posted on 09/28/2005 5:48:48 PM PDT by It's me
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To: Titanites

So good it's worth a cut-n-paste:

To: P-Marlowe
As a Catholic, I believe that I was saved in baptism, I am being saved, and I hope I will be saved.

It's simple: Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.

Salvation can not be earned. Salvation is a gift from God, pure Grace, that we did not merit and do not deserve. Jesus Christ died for our sake and for our salvation. Like any gift, his dead and resurrection can be denied.

"See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)."

One Catholic web-site has a good response for the question "Are you saved?"

"As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).

God bless you all.
22 posted on 07/26/2002 1:50:42 AM EDT by Gophack


38 posted on 09/28/2005 5:50:34 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Titanites
"Here is a good response."

As a Catholic, I believe that I was saved in baptism,[snip]

Is this the doctrine of the Catholic Church?
40 posted on 09/28/2005 5:51:19 PM PDT by DocRock (Osama said, "We love death, the U.S. loves life, that is the main difference between us.")
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

Ooooooh, I think Steve Woods touched a hot button.

THis shoud be an interesting thread.


42 posted on 09/28/2005 5:52:36 PM PDT by It's me
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To: DocRock
What must I do to be saved?

Mark 10 (live everlasting is salvation):

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, a certain man, running up and kneeling before him, asked him: Good Master, what shall I do that I may receive life everlasting?
18 And Jesus said to him: Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, bear not false witness, do no fraud, honour thy father and mother.
20 But he answering, said to him: Master, all these things I have observed from my youth.
21 And Jesus, looking on him, loved him and said to him: One thing is wanting unto thee. Go, sell whatsoever thou hast and give to the poor: and thou shalt have treasure in heaven. And come, follow me.
22 Who being struck sad at that saying, went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

43 posted on 09/28/2005 5:54:53 PM PDT by annalex
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To: visually_augmented
The main problem with this author (Steve Woods) is that he looks at Protestantism through the lens of the Assemblies of God. His narrow view of the Protestant faith makes for a poor understanding and contrast to the Catholic faith...

What difference does that make? What does a Protestant base his faith on? His own interpretation of the Scriptures. Whether he is an AOG or a Baptist, you are relying on yourself to figure out what God wants ans what He said, rather then listening to what HE said.

Regards

44 posted on 09/28/2005 5:55:05 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: ArrogantBustard; AlaskaErik

and one of them shows up!

LOL


45 posted on 09/28/2005 5:55:44 PM PDT by rollinginmybuggy (The Electric Amish)
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To: NYer
I noticed that this guy conveniently skips over Romans 10:9 and 10:10

10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Nothing in my Catholic past ever mentioned this.

46 posted on 09/28/2005 5:56:25 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: DocRock
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I strongly recommend reading the entire link, if you want to know what the Church really teaches (as opposed to anything that jack chick's dishonest scoundrels have to say).

1992
Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41

47 posted on 09/28/2005 5:56:33 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: sandyeggo

It's a great answer.


48 posted on 09/28/2005 5:57:13 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: DocRock

Not in isolation, as a stand-along sentence. That's why it was part of a larger context discussing the comprehensive Catholic view of salvation.

This particular statement comes from 1 Peter 3: 21-22, "Baptism, which corresponds to this [to the rescue of Noah and his family from the Flood], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him."


49 posted on 09/28/2005 5:57:58 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Start the revolution - I'll bring the tea and muffins!)
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To: Tax-chick

That is, "stand-alone."


50 posted on 09/28/2005 5:58:43 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Start the revolution - I'll bring the tea and muffins!)
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