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To: Larry Lucido

To expound: The only alternative to classical liberalism is regulation and coercion. This can be accomplished by: 1) limiting the price a merchant may charge for goods and services, 2) confiscating those goods the merchant may choose to withhold from the market, 3) confiscate the means to produce the goods, 4) force the producers of goods and services to produce such goods or perform such services.


7 posted on 10/01/2005 12:29:17 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido
Agree. The doctrine of the "just price" was rubbish in the twelfth century. It was rubbish in the thirtenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth centuries. It is rubbish today.

And the proof is simple: the free market needs no coercion; it will create itself spontaneously from the interactions of free individuals. A false market based on the "just price" requires coercion or the threat of coercion behind every transaction.

The merchant has no business offering an opinion about theology. And the theologian has no business offering an opinion about merchandising.

10 posted on 10/01/2005 1:59:33 AM PDT by John Locke
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To: Larry Lucido
To expound: The only alternative

You're setting up a false dichotomy. On the spectrum that has classically liberal capitalism on one end and coercive, totalitarian Marxism on the other, there are a lot of little steps in between.

A society can still be free market capitalist yet have some rules. For instance, in our own society, we do not allow slavery. We don't allow 4-year olds to work in factories. Under a purely libertarian, capitalist system, there's no reason either of these things can't occur.
14 posted on 10/01/2005 8:11:28 AM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Larry Lucido

The model of an economy which both neoclassical and Austrian economics present, and the economic policies which Austrian economists usually champion, are not the obvious conclusions of economic reasoning as they would have us believe. For economic activity always takes place within a legal, social and technological framework, and the structure of that framework to a great degree conditions and determines the shape which economic activity takes in any particular society. There was no economic reason, for example, why the guilds of the Middle Ages, which controlled the urban economies of Europe and severely limited competition among craftsmen, need have come to an end, and the economy which resulted from the demise of the guilds was largely the creation of a changed intellectual climate, not the result of so-called economic laws. Nor are limited liability corporations, which currently dominate our economy and which were created only in the nineteenth century due to emerging state general incorporation laws, the inevitable products of economic forces, but rather were brought into being by the free acts of legislatures. Market forces always work within a certain framework, and economic outcomes depend more on how these frameworks are structured than on the market forces alone. Thus within broad limits human beings have the ability to structure the way in which they conduct economic activity, and the notion that there is only one way which is sanctioned by so-called economic laws is false. Human beings create their legal and social institutions and can alter them. There is no reason why these institutions cannot be designed or reformed in such a way so as to facilitate the application of Catholic social teaching. (A concrete instance of how market forces always work within an institutional framework is the story of the Nova Scotia fishermen from the 1930s. "Their catch of fish and lobsters was handled by local dealers who in many cases kept the fishermen in a state of peonage. While Maine fishermen were getting about fifteen cents a pound for lobsters, the Nova Scotian fishermen were receiving as little as two cents a pound. All other prices were scaled down in the same ratio. For everything they bought, however, from their scanty food purchases to nets and lines, they paid top prices, with the result that they were invariably bowed down with a load of debts. Appalling poverty, illiteracy, poor health and the worst possible housing conditions existed throughout this section." In order to better their condition, priests from St. Francis College helped the fishermen organize cooperatives. By means of marketing cooperatives they were able to bypass the local middlemen and deal directly with wholesalers in large cities. In their first shipment of lobsters to Boston they received fifteen cents per pound net. The distribution of income before the establishment of the cooperatives was not the result of the operation of economic laws, but rather of the legal and social institutions within which these economic forces operated. These institutions were changed and a new set of institutions was created within which market forces could operate. This is an illustration of the freedom men have to change the framework and thus change the way economic forces operate to bring about a more just distribution of income. See Bertram B. Fowler, The Co-operative Challenge (Boston : Little, Brown, 1947) pp. 128-29.)


17 posted on 10/01/2005 9:22:19 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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