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To: PetroniusMaximus
If Mary would have said "no" then God would have found someone else.

Protestants always say this in an attempt to minimize the Blessed Mother, and it never ceases to amaze me.

How is it that you claim to know what God "would have done" had Mary said "no"? Who are you??

You have no idea what God "would have done"; you can no more speculate about God's hypothetical reactions in hypothetical situations than you can turn a hair on your head white or black, to borrow a phrase of the Lord's.

And incidentally, claiming that grace comes through Jesus, not through Mary, is to deny the obvious Incarnational fact of the Christian faith that Jesus came through Mary!

You are going far, far off the rails, PM. If you stay on the trajectory you're on, you'll soon be a Jehovah's Witness or a B'nai Noach; not even a Christian anymore.

35 posted on 12/09/2005 9:12:38 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion
"You have no idea what God "would have done"

God never changes, and the Bible tells us what he would have done in similar circumstances. Here is the Biblical grounds for my statement;

"Then Mordecai told them to reply to Esther, "Do not think to yourself that in the king's palace you will escape any more than all the other Jews. For if you keep silent at this time, relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews from another place, but you and your father's house will perish. And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time as this?" Esther 4

Specifically, "For if you keep silent at this time, relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews from another place".

If Esther, or any other Biblical character, were to refuse (for whatever reason) their appointed role then God would raise up deliverance from a different place.

In Daniel we read:

"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" - Daniel 4:35

There is no o­ne among all the inhabitants of the earth who can "stay His hand". No human can prevent God from fulfilling His plan.

To affirm that Mary's "no" would halt the plan of salvation is a denial of the sovereignty of God. To deny her the ability to say no is a denial of the reality of man's will.



"And incidentally, claiming that grace comes through Jesus, not through Mary, is to deny the obvious Incarnational fact of the Christian faith that Jesus came through Mary!"

And Mary came through Anna, and Anna came through... etc., etc. regressing back to Adam. Jesus said "Salvation is from the Jews". You see the point.

If you want to say that grace came trhough Mary, then it also came through Anna, Anna's mother, Anna's grandmother... back to Adam.





"You are going far, far off the rails, PM. If you stay o­n the trajectory you're o­n, you'll soon be a Jehovah's Witness"

Campion, I appreciate your statement because I know it comes from an honest heart, but can you explain to me how my failure to believe in the extra-biblical idea that salvation is dependent o­n Mary puts me in danger of sliding into a cult?

The o­nly person that salvation is inescapably, unavoidably dependent o­n is Jesus Christ.
37 posted on 12/09/2005 9:53:39 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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