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No Understanding of Bible Prophecy
World Watch Daily ^ | 12/29/2005 | Bill Koenig

Posted on 12/29/2005 8:17:39 AM PST by kindred

Note from Bill:

Today there are approximately 100 million American church members who have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy. These church members are from replacement theology churches that don't teach Bible prophecy and who look at prophetic scriptures as allegorical and not literal. Consequently, they do not understand the importance of Israel to the God of Israel or God's redemptive plan for Israel and the nations. (To Read "The Error of Replacement Theology" - By Clarence H. Wagner Jr. click here.)

These church members also have no understanding of the biblical significance of what is transpiring today in Israel, Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Turkey, and in other Middle East nations. They are also not aware of the significance of the formation of the European Union, new ID technologies and much more.

I have shared the biblical significance of our times with some of these people and almost all of them can't process the information mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. And due to fear they do not want to hear more. They also have no point of reference in which to start if they had interest.

The good news is those who understand Bible prophecy are fully aware of the significance of Israel, God's time clock, and are watching the times with great interest and expectancy.

We will continue to post articles under Update and Commentary and under the Error Exposed category under Page Two News to inform you of the official church positions, their recent statements calling on Israel to leave her land, and writings and statements that speak against pro-Israel Christians.

Below is a list of the 25 largest churches in America. The churches that are highlighted in bold are confirmed replacement theology churches. We are still attempting to confirm a few of the smaller church positions.

The Church

U.S. Membership Denominational Ranking: Largest 25 Denominations/Communions --2004 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches

1. The Roman Catholic Church - 66,407,105 2. Southern Baptist Convention - 16, 427, 736 3. The United Methodist Church - 8,251,042 4. The Church of God in Christ - 5,499,875 5. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - 5,410,544 6. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - 5,038,006 7. National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc. - 5,000,000 8. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. - 3,500,000 9. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - 3,407,329 10. Assemblies of God - 2,687,366 11. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - 2,512,714 12. African Methodist Episcopal Church - 2,500,000 13. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America - 2,500,000 14. Progressive National Baptist Convention Inc. - 2,500,000 15. The Episcopal Church - 2,333,628 16. Churches of Christ, Corsicana, Texas - 1,500,000 17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America - 1,500,000 18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. - 1,500,000 19. American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. - 1,484,291 20. African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church - 1,430,795 21. United Church of Christ - 1,330,985 22. Baptist Bible Fellowship International - 1,200,000 23. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, Joplin, Mo. - 1,071,616 24. Jehovah's Witnesses - 1,022,397 25. Church of God, Cleveland, Tenn., - 944,857


TOPICS: Apologetics
KEYWORDS: bibleprophecy; prophecy
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As a Christian who looks for the rapture of the Church by our Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ, I wonder about amillianism and don't find it in the scriptures of the Holy Bible. Paul the apostle of Jesus Christ by God teaches the translation of the body of Christ.
1 posted on 12/29/2005 8:17:40 AM PST by kindred
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To: kindred

How is this news? Why not post your religion posts in the Religion topic?


2 posted on 12/29/2005 8:20:13 AM PST by MineralMan
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To: kindred
And there are 10,000 hucksters just waiting with 'their version of the truth' to steal their earthly possessions and their souls..

It is a great undertaking...say the undertakers

imo

3 posted on 12/29/2005 8:21:22 AM PST by joesnuffy (A camel once bit our sister.. but we knew what to do.. we gathered rocks and squashed her!)
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To: kindred
As a Christian, I'm not sure whether the rapture will occur before the Trib or not. Lately, I've become more convinced that we will suffer through it as a means of separating the wheat from the chaff--but even that is not certain. I've resigned myself to prepare for the worst (go through the entire Trib), but hope for the best.

I do know, though, that we will not last through to my natural death. This is a matter of faith, but everything I see points to it.

4 posted on 12/29/2005 8:22:12 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: kindred

Below is a list of the 25 largest churches in America...........


No mention of the People's Front of Judea?


5 posted on 12/29/2005 8:23:34 AM PST by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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To: kindred

"http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m10.html"

How about this prophecy; those who don't learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.


6 posted on 12/29/2005 8:25:25 AM PST by bkepley
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To: kindred
...... The churches that are highlighted in bold .....?
7 posted on 12/29/2005 8:33:59 AM PST by maestro
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To: kindred

Just what to do you say that "Replacement Theology" is?


**The good news is those who understand Bible prophecy are fully aware of the significance of Israel, God's time clock, and are watching the times with great interest and expectancy.**

Catholics are very aware of what the Bible prophesizes regarding these topics and likewise, are watching the end times with great interest.

The author has a very biased point of view in my opinion.


8 posted on 12/29/2005 8:34:20 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

I'm Catholic and I most certainly think some extremely relevant and interesting things are going on with regards to Biblical prophecy.


9 posted on 12/29/2005 8:42:42 AM PST by Ashamed Canadian (America - please invade us now!!)
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To: kindred

What is replacement theology?


10 posted on 12/29/2005 8:43:56 AM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: kerryusama04

I think it's the belief that Christianity is supposed to replace the Jewish people as 'God's chosen' due to the Jewish rejection of Christ. At least, that's how I understand it. I don't believe it's that cut and dry though.


11 posted on 12/29/2005 8:46:44 AM PST by Ashamed Canadian (America - please invade us now!!)
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To: Ashamed Canadian
Thanks, that's what I thought.

I believe what Paul said; that those who believe in Jesus are now the children of Abraham. So that must put me in the replacement category.

Literal Israel doesn't really matter anymore (I mean theologically, politically I love that country and pray for them to have peace from their enemies) because the remnant needs to keep the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus. If you believe in literal Israel, then you have to believe in literal Babylon (from which Jesus will call his people out of), which leaves a whole lot of us in the cold.

12 posted on 12/29/2005 9:00:04 AM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: Ashamed Canadian

That's pretty much the truth.

And ultimately, God will do stuff in his way, no matter what we tell him is the way he is supposed to move.

Look at Jesus. How many scholars in his day expected the Messiah to come as the Suffering Servant? They thought the Suffering Servant was a prophecy about the people of God going through the traumas of exile.

But not to fear, for we are told, "Now when these things begin to take place, look up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." Luke 21:28.

But I do like to contemplate this passage in particular:

And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:12-13.


13 posted on 12/29/2005 9:03:32 AM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Ashamed Canadian
What is replacement theology?

Answer:.....The 'LAND' does NOT belong to the Jewish-People,....the LAND NOW belongs to the Covenant-Reformed-Presbyterians-EVANGELICAL,CATHOLICS, and MORMONS TOGETHER,....etc.

Orthodox Jewish People & Baptist-Dispensational Christians are NOT to be LAND owners.....

....THAT 'is' replacement anti-bible-theology!

'Narnia' is a replacement-theology work!

14 posted on 12/29/2005 9:37:13 AM PST by maestro
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To: kindred
Below is a list of the 25 largest churches in America. The churches that are highlighted in bold are confirmed replacement theology churches. We are still attempting to confirm a few of the smaller church positions.

The bold highlighting does not show up on my browser. Can you post the list showing which are "confirmed replacement theology churches"?

15 posted on 12/29/2005 11:00:43 AM PST by Logophile
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To: kindred

The writer needs to do some more homework on the Southern Baptists. There are some Biblically knowledgeable folks there who have embraced Reformed theology. And it would have helped, if you weren't going to follow the formatting of the original ("The churches that are highlighted in bold") to have linked to the relevant story instead of a page with a jumble of headlines, none of which actually matched the headline you made up. (For other readers, search for this headline on that poorly laid out page: "Monday, Jan 17, 2005 08:37:49 AM EDT
Approximately 100 Million American
Church Members Have Very Little to
No Understanding of Bible Prophecy -
Bill Koenig ".


16 posted on 12/29/2005 11:01:20 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Logophile

From the list (not at the linked page, but if you work you can track it down):

Roman Catholic, United Methodist, Mormons, ELCA, PCUSA, LCMS, AME, ECUSA, CoC - Corsicana, Greek Orthodox, AME Zion, UCC, CC&CoC - Joplin, JW.

Not in bold: SBC (at least partially inaccurate), COGiC, NBC - America, NBC - USA, AoG, National Missionary Baptists, Progressive National Baptists, Pentacostal, American Baptist USA, Baptist Bible Fellowship, CoG - Cleveland, TN.


17 posted on 12/29/2005 11:09:18 AM PST by PAR35
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To: kindred
who look at prophetic scriptures as allegorical and not literal

Everybody does this. Or are you expecting to see a literal dragon at a literal seashore? A literal woman in heaven?

What is replacement theology?

A perjoritive term for the notion that God's people are not now necessarily physical descendants of the partriarch Jacob's sons.

Romans does say that God has plans to do good things to "Israel according to the flesh" before it's all over with -- noone denies that (or should, anyway).

18 posted on 12/29/2005 11:11:06 AM PST by Lee N. Field
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To: kindred

Never mind. I followed the link to the original article. It highlights the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the "Mormons") as being one of the "confirmed replacement theology churches." I believe that is incorrect.


19 posted on 12/29/2005 11:12:35 AM PST by Logophile
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To: PAR35
Roman Catholic, United Methodist, Mormons, ELCA, PCUSA, LCMS, AME, ECUSA, CoC - Corsicana, Greek Orthodox, AME Zion, UCC, CC&CoC - Joplin, JW.

Thanks. As I unerstand the term, "replacement theology" is not taught by the Mormons.

20 posted on 12/29/2005 11:14:02 AM PST by Logophile
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To: kindred

This isn't too surprising since many Americans claim to be Christian, but haven't a real clue as what it means. Without Christ, all are lost.


21 posted on 12/29/2005 11:19:20 AM PST by WKUHilltopper
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To: Logophile

If I recall correctly, Mormons teach that American Indians are the 10 lost tribes of Israel. A different kind of replacement??


22 posted on 12/29/2005 11:19:33 AM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: Logophile

"Thanks. As I unerstand the term, "replacement theology" is not taught by the Mormons."

On the other hand, to treat the Southern Baptists as not reformed is to ignore both history http://www.grace.org.uk/faith/bc1689/1689bc00.html and modern reality http://www.biblestudyguide.org/study-resources/denominations-sb-calvinists.htm


23 posted on 12/29/2005 11:41:47 AM PST by PAR35
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To: GOPPachyderm
If I recall correctly, Mormons teach that American Indians are the 10 lost tribes of Israel. A different kind of replacement??

Not quite. You are thinking of the Book of Mormon, which describes how two small groups migrated from Judea to the Americas about the time of the Babylonian Captivity (ca 600 BC). These groups mixed with other people in the Americas; some of their descendants are among the American Indians today.

The Ten Tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians earlier (722 BC). The present location of the Ten tribes is unknown to us; however, Mormonism teaches that God will restore them in time.

24 posted on 12/29/2005 11:49:22 AM PST by Logophile
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To: Logophile

Isn't the book of Mormon used by Mormons for the basis of their belief system?


25 posted on 12/29/2005 11:53:31 AM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: Logophile

I forgot to mention that the Book of Mormon also speaks of another small group that migrated to the Americas about the time of the Tower of Babel. They were not Israelites. Some of their descendants likely exist among the American Indians today.


26 posted on 12/29/2005 11:54:31 AM PST by Logophile
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To: GOPPachyderm
Isn't the book of Mormon used by Mormons for the basis of their belief system?

The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price are considered as scripture.

27 posted on 12/29/2005 11:56:01 AM PST by Logophile
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To: kindred

Better I believe, to love God and look to repairing the world, than to dwell on this stuff.


28 posted on 12/29/2005 12:07:29 PM PST by onedoug
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To: PAR35

LOL the Mormons.They think they are replacing all of Christianity.


29 posted on 12/29/2005 1:18:09 PM PST by Blessed
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To: Blessed

"Mormons.They think they are replacing all of Christianity."

Another example of replacement theology?!


30 posted on 12/29/2005 1:25:34 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: kindred

I would like to know where believers in the rapture find scriptural support for this doctrine.


31 posted on 12/29/2005 1:46:51 PM PST by AmethystCrystal
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To: kindred

Chiliasm leaves me cold.


32 posted on 12/29/2005 1:49:13 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: AmethystCrystal

Study Things to Come by Dwight Pentecost. Its a seminary textbook past used at the Dallas Theological Seminary. Tends towards dispensationalism, but is well balanced in explaing the basis of some other interpretations in eschatology.


33 posted on 12/29/2005 1:57:22 PM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: Logophile; kerryusama04; Cvengr
The Ten Tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians earlier (722 BC). The present location of the Ten tribes is unknown to us

Some folks would disagree with your statement here....about not knowing where they are today, but I can tell you from scripture that these ten tribes were known as "Israel", the northern kingdom. The Biblical history of Israel ends in [2Kings 17] except for the prophets. The people occupying the middle east nation called "Israel" today are descendants of the southern kingdom of Judah, [2 Kings 17:18] and became known as Jews.

All throughout the rest of the Old Testament....and the New, you will see prophecy directed to or against both "Israel and Judah". To understand this prophecy make sure you only apply prophecy about "Judah" to the present day, misnamed country of Israel. The rest of the prophecy regarding "Israel" is directed to or against some other group of folks.....to be named later.

There is a very broad distinction in the Bible between these two nations. In fact the very first place you will find the word Jew mentioned in scripture is 2 Kings 16:5-6 and Israel is at war against the Jews. This is one reason why so many folks cannot understand simple prophecy. They are trying to place the wrong events on the wrong people at the wrong time.

34 posted on 12/29/2005 2:57:05 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: kindred
I like your post, even if it was in the wrong forum with a link that was a little off the mark. Please keep it up and learn as you go. I've posted more than a few blunders in my short time here only to be corected with the same amount of tact and hospitality that has been afforded to you.

Mat 22:39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

35 posted on 12/29/2005 3:55:44 PM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: Diego1618
Yo Diego,

Are you saying that literal Isreal has a place in the end time prophecy? Please elaborate...

36 posted on 12/29/2005 4:00:41 PM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

You asked rhetorically, "How many scholars in his day expected the Messiah to come as the Suffering Servant?"
Upon what do you base your belief that a lot or most Jewish "scholars" (scribes?) "expected the Messiah to come as the Suffering Servant"?


37 posted on 12/29/2005 4:30:05 PM PST by Luffenholtz
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To: Luffenholtz

NO - you misunderstood what I said. They read the suffering servant passage as being about the people of Israel as a whole, rather than being about the Messiah.


38 posted on 12/29/2005 4:49:36 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Luffenholtz

They thought, according to what I have read, the Suffering Servant referred to the experiences of exile, then restoration.

The idea I was saying is:

God fulfills prophecies the way God fulfills prophecies. It is possible to have an entire concept that makes sense put together, but that doesn't mean that's the way God reads it.

God is the master, and we are here, doing his will, if we love him. You can be sure He will fulfill the prophecies exactly the way he has in mind, and don't be surprised if that's not exactly the way others thought it ought to have been done.



39 posted on 12/29/2005 4:56:57 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: kindred

I use to think I understood the end times, but now it really is mysterious to me. I don't see it as allegorical, but as truth. I avoid taking too much interest in it, but that doesn't mean that I don't believe it to be truth.


40 posted on 12/29/2005 5:08:15 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Ashamed Canadian
I find replacement theology disturbing as it seems to portend a justification for abandoning our support for Israel. Some of it goes to nutty extremes such as the cultish British Israelis who believe, conveniently, that the Anglo Saxons are now the chosen people. Yeah, whatever. Does anyone have thoughts on the Lost Tribes theory that the Celts are the 10 lost tribes. Is this advanced by archaeologists and anthropologists? Or just wishful thinkers?
41 posted on 12/29/2005 5:12:00 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: maestro

I got lost on your Narnia mention. How does Narnia advocate the theft of the Jew's chosen people status?


42 posted on 12/29/2005 5:13:24 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Lee N. Field

I believe that Israel has its own destiny aside from that of Christians.


43 posted on 12/29/2005 5:14:35 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Diego1618
Israel was still commanded to keep the covenant laws of God. How is it that Judah was conquered and dispersed but still follows the commands given in the Old Testament, while there are no people of Israel that follow similar laws? My guess is that Israelis didn’t ghettoize themselves as the people of Judah did, and became racially mixed with the Assyrians, then the Persians and Greeks.
44 posted on 12/29/2005 5:19:13 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Diego1618; the-ironically-named-proverbs2; Lijahsbubbe; sauropod
There is a very broad distinction in the Bible between these two nations. In fact the very first place you will find the word Jew mentioned in scripture is 2 Kings 16:5-6 and Israel is at war against the Jews. This is one reason why so many folks cannot understand simple prophecy. They are trying to place the wrong events on the wrong people at the wrong time.

It's the dirty little secret the modern prophecy expert$ are conveniently ignorant of and/or hide intentionally from their flock$. The buying and selling of interpretation is big business.

Joseph is yet alive.

45 posted on 12/29/2005 5:38:33 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal (As it was in the days of NO...)
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To: kerryusama04; DouglasKC
Are you saying that literal Isreal has a place in the end time prophecy?

Jeremiah 30:3, [The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity...]The book of Ezra records the return of Judah from captivity. You do not find any mention of the 10 tribes of Israel in this book.

The book of Nehemiah also records the return of Judah and does not mention any of the ten tribes of Israel that had been carried in to captivity earlier.

Jeremiah 31:35, [This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and the stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar. The Lord Almighty is his name: Only if these decrees vanish from my sight, declares the Lord, will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.]

Jeremiah 33:17, [For this is what the Lord says: David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel.] and in verse 20, [This is what the Lord says: If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time, then my covenant with David my servant-and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me-can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne.]

This prophecy has never been fulfilled by the nation of Judah..... and the sun, the moon and the stars still shine. History tells of the return of Judah, as does the Bible. Israel must still be somewhere, not knowing who they are, but having still a descendant of David on their throne or the word of God is useless!

46 posted on 12/29/2005 6:05:56 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Joseph is yet alive.

I've never heard that before....very profound.

47 posted on 12/29/2005 6:18:45 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles [Hebrew = melo hagoyim] be come in.

When Israel could not see:

Genesis 48:8-11

8 And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?
9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.
10 Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.
11 And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.

>>>18-20

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations [melo hagoyim].
20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until Ephraim comes on the scene. Ezekiel 37.

Ephraim means "double fruitfulness";"double ash-heap";

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

America the Beautiful - Oh Mother Dear Jerusalem

Double ash heap

48 posted on 12/29/2005 7:15:43 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal (As it was in the days of NO...)
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To: Diego1618
I always thought there were 12 tribes.

The dude on the throne of David would be Jesus.

49 posted on 12/29/2005 7:27:13 PM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: Sam Gamgee
I believe that Israel has its own destiny aside from that of Christians.

Would that be a destiny where they are saved apart from Christ?

If Israel is not saved, it's not a destiny worth having.

If Israel is saved in Christ, they are Christians.

If you hold that Israel is saved apart from Christ, what does that do for the doctrines of man's fallen state and Christ's atonement?

50 posted on 12/29/2005 7:32:26 PM PST by Lee N. Field
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