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Terrible Scandal Hits 21 Catholic Colleges Again
TFP Student Action ^ | 01-27-06 | TFP Student Action

Posted on 01/27/2006 1:02:30 PM PST by concernedAmerican1

TFP Student Action launches effort to restore modesty on Catholic campuses

Feminist groups on twenty-one American Catholic Universities are planning a new assault against the Church’s traditional moral teaching, by organizing showings of the lewd play, “The V***** Monologues” in the weeks surrounding St. Valentine’s Day. (Asterisks added for modesty).


The choice of St. Valentine’s Day is particularly offensive, since it is a feast day the Church instituted to honor three martyrs who died to defend the Faith.

According to the Cardinal Newman Society1, the play is a conglomeration of vulgarities, obscenities and explicit discussions of sexuality and sexual encounters including lesbian activity and masturbation.

Their description continues: “In one scene, a woman describes her seduction by a lesbian woman when she was 16 years old, declaring it her "salvation" and an important coming-of-age experience. The older woman leads the girl into sex by serving her alcohol and abusing her authority as an elder."

“I cannot imagine why this immoral play would be shown at a single Catholic university, let alone twenty-one of them,” said TFP Student Action director John Ritchie. “We are asking our affiliate members on 716 campuses to protest. Catholic universities need to be morally correct, not politically correct.”

Together with the Cardinal Newman Society – TFP Student Action has successfully protested these outrageous performances, achieving partial victory. In 2003, thirty-two Catholic institutions planned to allow the play on campus. However, this year, only twenty-one Catholic universities appear to be willing to allow it.

In 2004, Bishop John M. D'Arcy issued a statement regarding “The V***** Monologues,” which has sadly been allowed at the University of Notre Dame year after year, despite the protest of faculty and students. "Freedom in the academy is always subject to a particular discipline. It is never an absolute… Freedom in the Catholic tradition is not the right to do this rather than that. That would be an entirely superficial idea of freedom… Freedom is the capacity to choose the good," said Bishop D’Arcy.2

Now, TFP Student Action web site readers can send an instant PROTEST E-MAIL to the presidents of all twenty-one Catholic universities apparently involved in 2006. Everyone needs to be concerned.

After being forced to see the play as part of a class, Christopher, a Catholic student from Massachusetts wrote: “…it was a horrible exhibit of vice, lust, and infidelity. Everything about the play was decidedly opposed to just about everything the Church teaches, whether it be about sexuality, abortion, contraception, holy matrimony, modesty, chastity, vulgarity, humility, reverence, you name it…”

Please defend Catholic morality and support students like Christopher by signing a polite and respectful message of protest.

2006 Performances of "The V***** Monologues" (according to V-Day3)

Note: We are grateful to Mr. Patrick Reilly, president of the Cardinal Newman Society, for his efforts to stop this play on Catholic campuses. He kindly provided TFP Student Action with a list of campuses where “The V***** Monologues” is scheduled. The list below was compiled by the Cardinal Newman Society and will be updated as the protest develops, using the information CNS places on its web site:

1. Boston College Rev. William Leahy, S.J., President 18 Old Colony Rd., Chestnut Hill, MA 02467 Phone: (617) 552-8000 E-mail:

2. College of the Holy Cross Rev. Michael McFarland, S.J., President 1 College St., Worcester, MA 01610 Phone: (508) 793-2011 E-mail:

3. College of Mount Saint Vincent Dr. Charles Flynn, Jr., President 6301 Riverdale Ave., Riverdale, NY 10471 Phone: (718) 405-3233 E-mail:

4. College of Saint Benedict Dr. MaryAnn Baenninger, President 37 S. College Ave., St. Joseph, MN 46374 Phone: (320) 363-5505 E-mail:

5. College of Saint Catherine Sr. Andrea J. Lee, IHM, President 1st Floor Derham, 2004 Randolph Ave. #F23, St. Paul, MN 55105 Phone: (651) 690-6525 E-mail:

6. College of Saint Rose Dr. R. Mark Sullivan, President 432 Western Ave., Albany, NY 12203 Phone: (518) 454-5121 E-mail:

7. DePaul University Rev. Dennis H. Holtschneider, C.M., President 55 E. Jackson Blvd., 22nd Floor, Chicago, IL 60604 Phone: (312) 362-8890 E-mail:

8. Fordham University Lincoln Center & Rose Hill campuses Rev. Joseph M. McShane, S.J., President 441 E. Fordham Rd., Bronx, NY 10458 Phone: (718) 817-3000 E-mail:

9. Georgetown University Dr. John DeGioia, President 37th & O Sts. NW, Washington, DC 20057 Phone: (202) 687-4134 E-mail:

10. John Carroll University Rev. Robert L. Niehoff, S.J., President 20700 N. Park Blvd., University Heights, OH 44118 Phone: (216) 397-4281 E-mail:

11. Loyola University of Chicago Chicago campus & Rome campus Rev. Michael Garanzini, S.J., President 820 N. Michigan Ave., Chicago, IL 60611-2196 Phone: (312) 915-6700 E-mail:

12. Loyola University of New Orleans Rev. Kevin W. Wildes, S.J., President 6363 St. Charles Ave., Campus Box 009, New Orleans, LA 70118 Phone: (504) 865-3847 E-mail:

13. Regis College Dr. Mary Jane England, President 235 Wellesley St., Weston, MA 02493 Phone: (781) 768-7122 E-mail:

14. Saint Louis University Rev. Lawrence Biondi, S.J., President 221 North Grand Blvd., Saint Louis, MO 63103 Phone: (314) 977-7777 E-mail:

15. Saint Joseph College Dr. Evelyn Lynch, President 1678 Asylum Avenue, West Hartford, CT 06117 Phone: (860) 231-5221 E-mail:

16. Saint Mary's College of California Br. Ronald Gallagher, F.S.C., President P.O. Box 3005, Moraga, CA 94575-3005 Phone: (925) 631-4203 E-mail:

17. Saint Xavier University Dr. Judith Dwyer, President Warde Academic Center, Rm A225 3700 West 103rd St., Chicago, IL 60655 Phone: (773) 298-3309 E-mail:

18. Seattle University Rev. Stephen V. Sundborg, S.J., President 900 Broadway, Seattle, WA 98122 Phone: (206) 296-1891 E-mail:

19. University of Detroit Mercy Gerard L. Stockhausen, S.J., President 4001 W. McNichols Rd., P.O. Box 19900, Detroit, MI 48219 Phone: (313) 993-1455 E-mail:

20. University of Notre Dame Rev. John I. Jenkins, C.S.C., President Notre Dame, IN 46556 Phone: (574) 631-3903 E-mail:

21. University of San Francisco Rev. Stephen A. Privett, S.J., President 2130 Fulton St., San Francisco, CA 94117 Phone: (415) 422-6762 E-mail:

Footnotes: 1.



TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicschools; college; conservative; feminism; feminist; immoral; modesty; monologues; moralabsolutes; notredame; play; protest; purity; saintvalentine; scandal; student; tfp; tfpstduentaction; thearts; university; vagina; valentinesday; vday; vmonologues

1 posted on 01/27/2006 1:02:34 PM PST by concernedAmerican1
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To: concernedAmerican1
2 posted on 01/27/2006 1:03:52 PM PST by dubie
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To: concernedAmerican1

This is a good cause to join. God bless!

3 posted on 01/27/2006 1:13:32 PM PST by concernedAmerican1 (millstones solve scandals)
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To: concernedAmerican1

For more information, visit:

4 posted on 01/27/2006 1:15:11 PM PST by concernedAmerican1 (millstones solve scandals)
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To: concernedAmerican1

This makes me want to scream. I went to one of those schools and my kids went to two others. I think my kids have more sense than the presidents of these universities. What does Catholic education mean any more?

I have this image of Mary in the audience jumping to her feet at the end of this "play" and applauding wildly in support of it. No, not really. Just the opposite. If she didn't walk out on it with her head hanging low, I would be stunned. The thing that kills me is that Notre Dame, the school named in her honor, is one of the culprits. I am highly disappointed in all of these schools.

5 posted on 01/27/2006 1:35:30 PM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: dubie
That's really cool.

It has nothting whatever to do with the thread, but it's really cool.

6 posted on 01/27/2006 1:39:32 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: concernedAmerican1

Notre Dame reviewing appropriateness of controversial play

TOM COYNE Associated Press

SOUTH BEND, Ind. - The new University of Notre Dame president questioned Monday whether "The Vagina Monologues" and a Queer Film Festival held on campus the past few years should be sponsored by university departments.

The Rev. John I. Jenkins, who took over as president of the Roman Catholic school on July 1, did not say he would cancel the events, but is scaling back both events. He discussed the matter on Monday during a speech to faculty members and plans to address students on Tuesday. He said he also wants to hear from alumni.

He told the faculty he worried that sponsorship by university departments indicated a certain level of acceptance. As an example, he said the school would face questions if it were to sponsor a play that was anti-Semitic.

"A reasonable observer would assume that the university is sponsoring an event that, in fact, is clearly and egregiously at odds with its values as a Catholic university," he said.

He said events that are inconsistent with Catholic values should not be allowed at Notre Dame.

After his 50-minute speech, though, some of the faculty questioned him, saying that a university is the place where thoughts and ideas should be challenged.
Margaret Doody, an English professor, said the university should be a place for freedom and that higher education had already been through a period where research and thinking were restrained.

"It was known as McCarthyism," she said. But others praised Jenkins for taking up the issue. Margot O'Brien, who teaches in the accounting department, said plays such as "The Vagina Monologues" had no place at Notre Dame.

"It is a matter of treating something that is evil as good, and that's just wrong," she said. Jenkins said he wasn't surprised by the responses. "People have strong feelings about this and there are strong differences of opinions," he said.

Jenkins, who was a top Notre Dame administrator for four years before becoming president, told the faculty members he supported academic freedom - calling it essential to the university - but said academic freedom has limits.
"I do not believe that freedom of expression has absolute priority in every circumstance," he said. "While any restriction on expression must be reluctant and restrained, I believe that, in some situations, given the distinctive character and aspirations of Notre Dame, it may be necessary to establish certain boundaries, while defending the appropriate exercise of academic freedom."

Jenkins' predecessor, the Rev. Edward A. Malloy, allowed "The Vagina Monologues" and a Queer Film Festival on campus, but did not comment about them. He was criticized by Bishop John D'Arcy of the Fort Wayne-South Bend Diocese for allowing them.

Jenkins said he would allow "The Vagina Monologues" to be performed on campus this year, but only in a classroom setting and tickets can't be sold.

7 posted on 01/27/2006 1:40:23 PM PST by Nihil Obstat
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To: DBeers; wagglebee; DirtyHarryY2K


8 posted on 01/27/2006 9:33:04 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wagglebee; MillerCreek

moral absolutes ping?

9 posted on 01/28/2006 5:28:55 AM PST by DBeers ()
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To: Right Wing Assault
What does Catholic education mean any more?

The best line in the article was: "Catholic universities need to be morally correct, not politically correct.” This sense that so many Catholics and Catholic Institutions seem to have that they are old fashioned and stuck-in-the-mud and that the way to deal with that is by chasing after the false modernity held out by the leftist PC society is the thing that troubles me most about Modern Catholicism.

10 posted on 01/28/2006 7:48:04 AM PST by Flavius Josephus (Enemy Idealogies: Pacifism, Liberalism, and Feminism, Islamic Supremacism)
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To: Nihil Obstat

Boundaries are good.

11 posted on 01/28/2006 7:49:28 AM PST by Flavius Josephus (Enemy Idealogies: Pacifism, Liberalism, and Feminism, Islamic Supremacism)
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To: concernedAmerican1
Unfortunately most Catholic colleges are as secular as your state university's are. Most are run by ultra liberals and just because many times a Priest is its head it makes no difference. Many of them are just as liberal and have little common sense as far as faith goes.
12 posted on 01/28/2006 9:44:25 AM PST by Duke Wayne
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To: concernedAmerican1
Nobody is in favor of immodesty on campus. However, TFP is a crackpot organization using this, and otber scandals, to gather into their weird cult more members.

From their website

The Idea of a Counter-Revolution


The American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP) was born of a group of Catholic Americans concerned about the multiple crises shaking every aspect of American life. Founded in 1973, the American TFP was formed to resist, in the realm of ideas, the liberal, socialist and communist trends of the times and proudly affirm the positive values of tradition, family and property.

Central to the TFP mission is the idea that the various crises threatening American society and the Church cannot be seen as separate and disjointed. Rather they originate from a single cause.

The TFP handbook Revolution and Counter-Revolution by Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira masterfully traces the historical and philosophical roots of this single cause: a phenomenon called the Revolution.

The TFP is not afraid to take its views to the streets with colorful sidewalk campaigns in major cities The TFP was born from the idea of a Counter-Revolution, a movement that would embrace every field of action, especially in art, ideas and culture. (To read TFP views on current topics, visit the TFP Forum) TFP books, publications and newspaper advertisements help bring these views to the public. Moreover, the TFP is not afraid to take them to the streets with colorful sidewalk campaigns in major cities.

The first TFP was founded in Brazil in 1960 by Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira. Later, the American TFP became but one of many autonomous TFPs that now exist around the world dedicated to the same ideals and at the service of Christian Civilization (See links).

*Look, one does not have to join an insane cult to protest immodesty anymore than one has to join the Nazi's to protest the immodesty of Hollywood

13 posted on 01/29/2006 4:44:36 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
T.F.P. meets with problems -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TFP ("Tradition Family and Property") considers itself to be engaged in a mortal conflict with the Left. It consequently tends to depict any trouble it may get into, simply as the violent reaction of the "Revolution" against its heroic opponents, a notion which Introvigne has translated into the fiction of the "anti-cult movement".

Actually, opposition to T.F.P. has come mostly from parents of T.F.P. members, themselves usually Catholic traditionalists, and from conservative and traditionalist Catholic quarters.

There are several reasons for this. In the first place, outside of Latin America, TFP generally keeps a low profile or operates through front organizations which the left usually does not understand. Skinhead-scalpers will turn elsewhere when they find a group like TFP whose writings are difficult to read, which is generally unobtrusive, and was founded by a man who sympathized for the British conservatives during the War (so much so that they took a pro-British stance during the Falkland War). TFP always viewed Fascism, with its optimistic cult of the State and the Nation, as a deviant form of "revolutionary socialism".

Another reason is that TFP is actually far to the right of virtually every other right-wing organization. Whatever feelings people may actually harbour deep down, I know of no other right-wing organization which publicly holds that the rich are better than the poor. Even the most extreme Catholic traditionalists tend to blame the modern world on "International Freemasonry" or on "the banker Mafia", whereas TFP puts the blame squarely on the rebellious poor, to whom it opposes its self-styled "rightism".

The third reason is doctrinal. Catholic traditionalists have problems with the "official" Church because of its supposed doctrinal deviation; but TFP is only interested in fighting agrarian reform, not in doctrine, which is why it was able to accept Vatican II and the reform of the liturgy. After all, the Pope has more battalions than Monsignor Lefèbvre ever had.

Also, Plinio's denial of the future role of priests - and the exclusion in the present of priests from all the more secret aspects of the group - led Monsignor Castro de Mayer, for decades Plinio's patron among the Brazilian bishops, to state:

"TFP is a heretical sect since, although they do not say so in words or in writing, lives and acts according to a principle which undermines the very basis of all true Christianity, that is the Catholic church".

(Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o setta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, p. 6)

The extent of TFP's doctrinal deviation can be seen from the following document. I apologize to Catholic readers for including it, since it sounds very much like some of the more ribald songs nineteenth-century anticlericals used to sing after having had a drink too many. This "hymn" is however serious: a parody on one of the most revered hymns to the Virgin in the Catholic tradition, this is dedicated to Dona Lucilia, the mother of Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira:

Lady Lucilia, pray for us

Mother of Mister Doctor Plinio, pray for us

Mother of the Doctor of the Church, pray for us

Mother of our Father, pray for us

Mother of the Unspeakable, pray for us

Mother of all of us, pray for us

Mother of the coming centuries, pray for us

Mother of the Axiological Principle, pray for us

Mother of the Temperament of Synthesis, pray for us

Mother of all purity, pray for us

Mother of the Trans-sphere, pray for us

Mother of Seriousness, pray for us

Mother of the Counter-Revolution, pray for us

Restorer of Temperaments, pray for us

Source of Light, pray for us

Procreator of Innocence, pray for us

Preserver of Innocence, pray for us

Consoler of Mister Doctor Plinio, pray for us

Mediator of the Grand Retour, pray for us

Mediator of all our graces, pray for us

Dawn of the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us

Lady Lucilia of the smile, pray for us

Lady Lucilia of Flashes*, pray for us

Most beautiful flower of all, pray for us

Our refuge, pray for us

Our consoler, pray for us

Our help in the Bagarre, pray for us

Reason of our perseverance, pray for us

Vase of logic, pray for us

Vase of metaphysics, pray for us

Martyr of isolation, pray for us

Queen of serene suffering, pray for us

Queen of loveliness, pray for us >

Queen of serenity, pray for us

Lady Lucilia, our Mother and Lady, help us

Lady Lucilia, our greatest mediator before the Virgin, help us

* In English (quoted in Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o setta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, pp. 70-71)

The most extraordinary claim here is also the most obscure,other of the Axiological Principle": this means a principle requiring no previous principle, in other words God himself.

This hymn came into public domain when it was revealed by Prof. Orlando Fedeli, a member of TFP for over 30 years, who asked Mons. Antonio de Castro Mayer for his opinion on its orthodoxy. One can see where the roots of Introvigne's dislike for "apostates" lies. TFP did not deny the allegation; it simply shifted the blame on over-zealous young followers, and claimed the hymn to be perfectly orthodox ((Carlo Alberto Agnoli e Paolo Taufer, TFP: la maschera e il volto, Ed. Adveniat, S.Giustina di Rimini, s.d., p. 17 ss). - shifting the blame onto the boys is a time-honoured practice in certain kinds of organizations. It also claimed that use of the hymn had long been discontinued. The current official version of this issue is given by Roberto de Mattei in his hagiography of Doctor Plinio (Roberto de Mattei, Il crociato del secolo XX: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Piemme, Casale Monferrato, 1996, p. 249):

"It is true that for a certain period some co-operators of the association used a litany with invocations to Lady Lucilia, composed by two adolescents late in 1977. This litany was forbidden by Prof. Corrêa de Oliveira as soon as he got word of it"

Oddly, this hymn by Brazilian adolescents seems to have spread across the ocean, since it was certainly used in France in the early '80s, and a former AC member recently told me that some TFP affiliates were still using it in Italy in the early '90s. When nothing else works, shocked TFP sympathizers who discover this hymn are told that "things are different in Latin America": this happened to be a favourite stratagem in my group, New Acropolis, which came from Latin America too.

If Plinio's mother is the Virgin Lucilia, her offspring of course must be quite special. Just how special appears from an extraordinary episode, which can hardly be blamed on over-zealous adolescents, since it is based on a statement made by Plinio, repeated in many works on him, and - as usual - proudly narrated in Cristianità. ("In memoriam: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira", November-December 1995, p. 6):

"February 1st, 1975, in view of the increasingly difficult situation of the Catholic Church, and hence of the Catholic world, during a meeting of the Brazilian TFP, he offered himself as an expiatory victim. Thirty-six hours later he was seriously wounded in a car accident, the consequences of which followed him until his death"

More than its political character, it was this highly suspect theological nature of the group which led to its demnation by the Council of Brazilian bishop

ring its 23rd plenary assembly, the Council of Brazilian bishops approved a note concerning the 'Brazilian Society for the Defence of Tradition, Family and Property', advising Catholics not to join the above mentioned Society […]. Its esoteric character, its religious fanaticism, the personality cult of the founder and of his mother, the abuse of the name of the Virgin Mary […] can absolutely not be approved of by the Church"

(Osservatore Romano, July 7, 1985, p. 12, n. 408, weekly Spanish edition quoted in Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o setta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, frontispiece)

The terms "cult" or "sect", with their double meaning of "deviant religious behaviour compared to an institutional religion" and a "closed totalist group", are certainly ambiguous. But this condemnation of TFP reveals why the organization was certainly considered by some to be a "cult" in the first sense of the word; and why therefore this organization took a special interest in the issue of "cults" in 1985, that is exactly when Introvigne too started involving himself in this matter.

Former TFP members have written that Plinio was well aware of this association. Referring to cult accusations, he used to tell them:

"This must not come as a surprise; since you belong to TFP, you will be treated as if you belonged to a cult, by your very parents and friends! It will be terrible, and it will be hard indeed to stay faithful."

(Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione

*These folks are nuts. Stay away from them

14 posted on 01/29/2006 4:52:58 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
I will post a few things about one of TFP's founders, Marian Hovath.

I can't see why joingin a schism is an answer to immodesty, but, some think it a rational response

15 posted on 01/29/2006 5:05:16 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

16 posted on 01/29/2006 5:06:14 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
Marian Horvat: The "Nice Girl"

By A. Gerard Nordskoven

Watching a Catholic community autodestruct is wrenching. The Society for Tradition, Family & Property, or TFP, is eating Kansas City alive. It is a scenario played out all over the world. TFP is an all-male secret society promoting a "higher" calling than the priesthood, the warrior-monk. TFP is a cold-blooded vocation killer. Not one priest has arisen from their "conservative" formation of young men anywhere in its international ranks since its founding in the early sixties. None. One of TFP's slickest Screwtapes has been a woman, Marian Horvat. Horvat, president of the TFP's California offshoot, Tradition in Action, distinguished herself as one of four collaborating signatories to "We Resist You to the Face," a manifesto for Catholic schism. Before that, Horvat's duties were in the heartland, and more along the line of "We Stab You in the Back" with the quiet destruction of the faithful. She's a "nice girl", well-spoken and polite. And she gave TFP and their ideas entré into nice families. The Catholic scholars at her alma mater, K.U., saw through the Horvat family obsession with TFP and rejected their overtures to infiltrate the Integrated Humanities Program, a veritable incubator for clerics and other religious. Others have not been so discerning. Pious boys exploring their calling have hardened into caustic snobs who are taught by TFP recruiters to despise their parents as "the fountain of my revolution."

The simplest mystery of Judeo-Christianity is election. Yet it is almost unfathomable that the Most High chooses to grace souls and peoples for reasons unknown to man. The antithesis of election, indeed a tenet of Babylonian Mystery Religions (as is secrecy), is elitism. This is man exalting himself above other men. We were warned. The Lord reviled the people's desire for a king to rule over them, and told of their inevitable exploitation. Hindu elitism is writ in the squalor of a rigid caste system. The unholy marriage of elitism and Catholicity was fabricated in TFP founder Plinio's book, The Nobility and Traditional Elites. It was offered for sale after the Latin Mass approved by the KCMO Bishop. $50.00 was the penance exacted for presuming to be a noble, elite Catholic. But the young salesmen were friends of Marian, glowingly praised in the tome. And she was smart, a K.U. teaching assistant who hammered a journalism degree into a doctorate in Medieval History.

Few read the lavishly illustrated book, consigning it to the coffee table. In Nobility, the race and blood cults condemned by Piux XII are resurrected in his own words, spin doctored to fit TFP's agenda. Pius XII's flattering pleas to the nobility of Italy for funds to feed the starving during World War II are transformed into support for TFP's militant monarchists. Published two years before Plinio's death, Marian Horvat garnered high honors from the author for her assistance. That's saying a lot. Plinio Correa de Oliveira was a self-styled demigod, described reflexively in a TFP litany to his mother, Dona Lucilia, as the "Axiological Principle," or First Cause, a divinity. That's the secret side of TFP. In Plinio's book, the elite are defined as bluebloods, and as "professors" like himself and Marian. It is a predatory philosophy of NON SERVIAM, like the fictional spaceman's cookbook, "How to Serve Man." Horvat's brother adds information for the American audience. The elite of America were the Southern slaveholder in general, and genetic marvels like Robert E. Lee in specific. Here is the race and blood cult American style.

Priests do not fit into the TFP schema. They serve. They are poor. They don't rule countries. The colorful "scroll" centerfold in Nobility proclaims "the preferential option for the nobility." John Paul II's "preferential option for the poor" is directly contradicted. That's refreshing. There can be no question whose side they are on. The schismatic heraldry of "We Resist You to the Face" was just a flourish on a split with the Servant of Servants started years before. TFP disdains the priesthood, predicting it's obsolescence. No priests, no Eucharist. Wormwood, be advised. Horvat's crocodile tears for lost vocations as inspiring "We Resist You to the Face" are hypocritical. Styling herself a latter day Joan of Arc, Horvat is a free agent serving only demigod Plinio and the Ten Kings of the Antichrist with no regard for prelates unless they are useful as camouflage for TFP, or Tradition in Action, or the America Needs Fatima cash cow. Radical materialism is the name of the game and another hallmark of Babylonian Mystery Religions. That's the philosophical basis for Communism, so it is no surprise that K.U.'s long-time campus Communist converted to Horvat's brand of Catholicism. One gets all the exploitation without any of the guilt. The poor are solicited by mail for a dollar a day, and the wealthy get quietly approached for donations of homes, large sums of money, and farms, not to mention the entrustment of children. Horvat guided the formation of young women in her home-school Sodality, and the children of "traditional" Catholics in other educational venues.

Marian Horvat is an apt pupil of TFP's techniques, and ingratiates herself to the wealthy, well-educated and powerful only. Peasants are the enemy, and perhaps too reminiscent of her blue-collar background. Catholic scholars cotton to her, and she sailed her pirate ship under their colors whenever possible. Alice Von Hildebrand was shamefully used in discussions aired on EWTN. She slipped one over on the elderly philosopher by dropping Plinio's name into the mix. EWTN got wind of it and axed the "Feminity and Feminism" series. But this virago is far from feminine. Horvat's favorite ploy for testing the mettle of protegés at the family compound was to invite them over and release their snapping, snarling German Shephards. Some left, some signed on to continue undermining the Catholic community in her stead. Horvat came razor close to imposing a TFP school on Kansas City residents under the banner of a conservative Catholic education. The monied Texas woman Horvat talked into bankrolling the venture got wind of her unseemly connections and mercifully withdrew.

Watch for this coiling snake of Babylonian cast, and beg the Blessed Virgin to have bare feet ready to crush its head. Postcards may be found in the back of church from "America Needs Fatima." One response and it is virtually impossible to be free from TFP's dunning direct mail solicitation. And the Boys from Brazil are very appealing as they march like Medieval militants in their red capes, inserting themselves at the head of pro-life rallies, or setting up bookstalls at Catholic conferences, usually without permission. They are spoiling for a fight, and it is not with the forces of evil for which they claim they need lots of cash. It is with the Magisterium, in that they are already condemned by the Brazilian bishops conference, their home country. It is with Peter, as "We Resist You to the Face" obsequiously declares. It is with God, as blithely breaking the first command to honor no false gods. That's Plinio, who did not arise from the dead as he prophesied of himself. And do watch out for nice girls in pearls.

-- Opinion piece (c) A. Gerard Nordskoven, 2001. All Rights Reserved. Pictures: Left, Marian Horvat, Atila Sinke Guimaraes; center, Michael Matt, and Right, top, John Vennari, and, below, Christopher Ferrara, apologist for Remnant/Guimaraes tract. Integrists Showing Their Hand "In our view a possible future declaration of a sede vacante ('the period of time when the Apostolic See is empty, as a consequence of the heresy of the Pope,' CFN 7/2000) would take place automatically when the Church would become aware of the gravity of the present day errors and who is responsible for them." (1) ---We Resist The Pope To His Face, V.3 So there we have it, despite all the spin, tucked away neatly at the very end of their We Resist You.... mainfesto, though it is the very foundation of their errors and audacity: it will, according to the Matt, Guimaraes, Horvat, and Vennari, only take the "true" ideal Church to "become aware" of what these Integrists predict (that the Pope is a "heretic", in substantial rupture with Tradition in several dogmatic areas) -- and then? Retroactive-sedevacantism; the Popes they disgree with will be desposed! the same Sedevacantism to which they (the signers of the We Resist [the Pope] To His Face manifesto) are clearly implicitly committed now, though they tried in the past to play it coy through doublespeak and obfuscation when possible. Of course they deny it when convenient. But most people are not stupid. This is how these deluded souls can urge the public to follow them and officially "suspend obedience" to all the Popes since John XXIII, charging them with heresies and rupture with Tradition, and declare a "sustained public resistance," since they simply do not believe that the Council or present Holy Father has the authority to "bind" them. They have created an alternative, parody-church. Michael Matt, Atila Guimaraes will lead them. They alone will measure Truth. It is tragic. And they were warned by many. I myself warned Michael Matt that he was losing control and headed toward the cliffs. In vain. Their implicit sedevacantism is the very foundation of their belligerence and their call for "all traditionalists" to unite under such a reckless banner. They alone will be the arbiters of what is and is not Catholic, not the living teaching magisterium (see our Integrist section on the relationship between Tradition and the living Magisterium) . Such, tragically, is the hubris of schism. (See also our article below , "Why the Integrists Must Back Back-Pedal"; but this is not new for this group; their trajectory has been clear, whatever fine legalistic distinctions and convoluted arguments they proffer, even quoting JPII in their defense!!!!! ). These and their defenders (Chris Ferrara, Tom Woods -- a Lutheran just several years ago -- now instructing the Pope on Catholicism, Jonathan Tuttle, John -- "Paul VI is the escatological Antichrist" -- Parrot, et al) are all of one essential mind. To defend and appear with them is to join them, to propagate their errors and midwife schism. As the extreme trad conferences draw fewer and fewer people, they are now combining efforts: TFP'ers, Grunerite Fatima cash-cowites, rigorist Feeneyites, Sedevacantists, etc.

17 posted on 01/29/2006 5:15:46 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
Atila Guimaerews is the other founder of TFP in America. I will post a refutation of his assertions.

TFP uses scandals to attract converts to their schismatic cult

18 posted on 01/29/2006 5:45:29 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

19 posted on 01/29/2006 5:46:07 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
Mario Derksne is a sedevacantist. Hi swebsite proudly supports Guimaraes and Horvat. Not all the other schismatic publications this genius writes for.

Atila Sinke Guimarães

The DAILY CATHOLIC is honored to add Atila Sinke Guimarães to our list of contributing columnists. He is the distinguished author of the 11-volume collection Eli, Eli, Lamma Sabacthani (My God, My God, Why hast Thou forsaken me?). To date two volumes of this collection have been published in English: In the Murky Waters of Vatican II and Animus Delendi- 1 (Desire to Destroy). In 1999 a special edition to the Collection, Quo Vadis, Petre? was also released.

This prolific writer was born in Rio de Janiero and tutored by his esteemed mentor Professor Plinio Correa de Oliveira for many years. Both Atila and his mentor spent many years in studies and researches, which included several trips to Europe and other countries of South America.

He is co-author of two timely statements addressed to Pope John Paul II on the responsibility of the Pontiff in upholding Church doctrine and tradition in We Resist You to the Face and An Urgent Plea: Do Not Change the Papacy.

His most recent work is a photo book co-authored with Marian T. Horvat entitled Previews of the New Papacy. He has also authored numerous booklets published by Tradition In Action, Inc. which we highly endorse.

Atila Guimarães is a contributor to Catholic periodicals, and has regular columns in The Remnant, Catholic Family News, and now The DAILY CATHOLIC. In February 2000, the International Biographical Center of Cambridge included him in the 2000 Outstanding Writers of the 20th Century in honor of his contribution in the field of Contemporary Religious Analysis.

His resume represents years of studies which began with Engineering from 1964-67; Law studies 1967-70; three years of French Literature; four years of Medieval History Studies; four years of Catholic Church History; eight years studying Philosophy as well as Politics; with sixteen years of Apologetics on Contemporary Religious Studies.

Marian Therese Horvat, Ph.D.

We are proud to introduce to the reader Marian Therese Horvat. She holds a degree in Journalism and a Master's and Doctorate in Medieval History from the University of Kansas. Her specialty is cultural history and she will write a regular column in her "Echoes of True Catholicism" as well as collaborate with Atila Sinke Guimarães on the inspiring column "Cultivating Catholic Culture."

Her background is in teaching, first in teaching Western Civilization in the Great Books Program at the University of Kansas in Lawrence as well as serving as a principal and founder of private Catholic independent schools in Kansas and Texas. In addition she assisted for many years families establishing home schooling.

Dr. Horvat has spoken at numerous Catholic conferences throughout the United States. She writes for various Catholic periodicals, and has regular columns in The Remnant, Catholic Family News, and now The DAILY CATHOLIC. She is author of Our Lady of Good Success: Prophecies for Our Times, and co-author of the timely statements We Resist You to the Face, An Urgent Plea: Do Not Change the Papacy, and Previews of the New Papacy.

She is president of Tradition in Action, Inc., a center for Catholic culture and apologetics. They have many books and tapes available at Tradition In Action, Inc. and we strongly recommend all of them.

20 posted on 01/29/2006 5:55:16 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: concernedAmerican1

Refute on this thread, not through the abuse system.

21 posted on 01/29/2006 12:22:35 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: bornacatholic

Username "bornacatholic," the author of these slanderous posts against the TFP, may have indeed been Catholic at one point, but his unfounded, untrue, misleading, and detracting comments lead me to believe that the cardinal virtue of charity is somehow missing in his intention here.

Did he contact the TFP to ask if the information he was posting was true? No, I don't think so.

Did he take the time to hear their answers? No, I don't think so.

The fact is that Marian Horvat and Guimaraies broke away from TFP and have had no connection with TFP for many years, which is a legitimate organization of Catholic inspiration in good standing with the magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church.

I challenge "bornacatholic" to show me any real evidence, not fabricated on the internet, that would prove otherwise.
I challenge him further to show me any publication of the TFP that is schismatic. Good luck! I've followed the work of the TFP very closely for about 20 years, crutinizing everything they say and print, and I have not found anything out of line or unorthodox.

This post found on EWTN's website is interesting, if you're interested in knowing the truth:

"My friend sent me an article on the internet which makes this group look bad. It calls them a cult started by Prof. Plinio Correa De Oliveira in Brazil. I don't know who writes these things. Those I have spoken to in the organization in the United States are very sincere in their Catholic faith. As far as I know they have only done good. As this information seems to be going round on the internet, who is correct? I don't know the situation in Brazil but are good people being wrongly condemned here? Please advise me. Respectfully, Caroline"

"Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 06-15-2005:
Dear Caroline, The TFP is a social action group, not officially Catholic, but "Catholic inspired", founded by a brilliant and pious professor who had serious disagreements with a Brazilian cardinal. This disagreement brought on a Brazilian rejection. In the rest of the world, TFP stands and works 110% in union with the Catholic Church, sometimes leads some Church efforts, e.g. the effort "America Needs Fatima", anti-porn efforts, family life, etc. Some Vatican officials have approved the group which in effect balances TFP as an orthodox lay group which is not approved by some Brazilian church leaders. I find all this group stands for as exemplary, pious, loyal both to country and the Church in all its aims and objectives. Fr. 'bob Levis"

For original:

22 posted on 01/30/2006 10:08:08 AM PST by concernedAmerican1 (millstones solve scandals)
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To: bornacatholic

Re: America Needs Fatima
Question from on 03-21-2003:
Is America Needs Fatima a legitimate Catholic organization? I have read both pro and con and am confused.

Answer by Catholic Answers on 03-25-2003:
Dear Vic,
America Needs Fatima is indeed a legitimate Catholic organization. Like other such Catholic organizations, it has its enemies. Log on to its web site: "".

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.

This is from EWTN:

23 posted on 01/30/2006 12:08:59 PM PST by concernedAmerican1 (millstones solve scandals)
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To: bornacatholic

As mentioned in the Preface, the publication of Revolution and Counter-Revolution had an immediate and profound impact. Ecclesiastical personages like those already quoted, as well as theologians, professors, and conservative leaders from around the world, acclaimed the author's analysis of and solution to the contemporary crisis. More than thirty years after its first edition, the essay's repercussion continues to grow, especially among youth. These letters regarding Revolution and Counter-Revolution are herein transcribed exempli gratia. -- Ed.

This is a copy of a letter sent to Prof. Plinio:

Lima, July 24, 1961

Distinguished Professor,

The reading of your book Revolution and Counter-Revolution made a magnificent impression on me because of the courage and mastery with which you analyze the process of the Revolution and shed abundant light on the true causes of the crumbling of moral values disorienting consciences today. and also because of the vigor with which you indicate the tactic and the methods to overcome it.

I especially appreciated the second part of your book, highlighting the efficacy of Catholic doctrine and the spiritual remedies the Church possesses to combat and vanquish the forces and errors of the Revolution.

I am certain that your book has rendered an important service to the Catholic cause and that it will help gather the forces of good in order to soon solve this great contemporary problem. This is, in my opinion, the way repeatedly indicated by the present Vicar of Christ, who, with so much conviction and solicitude, has insisted on a profound renewal of Christian and sacramental life as a sure remedy for the evils afflicting the world, evils that government leaders vainly seek to solve through the precarious efficacy of weapons. technology, and purely human progress. I wish, most dear Professor, a widespread diffusion of and a well-merited response to your book from Catholic leaders wishing to join the ranks of the counter-revolutionary movement.

Please accept the testimony of my sincere admiration for your work and the expression of my deepest esteem.

Romolo Carboni
Titular Archbishop of Sidon
Apostolic Nuncio

Note: Archbishop Romolo Carboni was born in Fano, Italy, in 19l1. Ordained in 1934, he was made a bishop in 1953. He was raised to the archepiscopate and appointed Apostolic Nuncio to Peru in 1959. He served as Nuncio to Italy from 1969 to 1936 and now lives in retirement in Fano.

24 posted on 01/30/2006 12:13:00 PM PST by concernedAmerican1 (millstones solve scandals)
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To: bornacatholic

Rome, February 10, 1993

Distinguished Professor,
(letter sent to TFP founder, Prof. Plinio Correa de Oliveira)

It was with extreme interest, pleasure, and personal benefit that I read the Spanish copy of Prof. Plinio Correa de Oliveira's work dedicated to me with expressions of great affection and esteem, for which I am grateful.

Revolution and Counter-Revolutionis a masterly work whose teachings should be disseminated far and wide so as to penetrate the conscience, not only of all those who consider themselves truly Catholic, but I would say even more, of all other men of good will. In it, the latter would learn that salvation can be found only in Jesus Christ and His Church; the former would feel confirmed and fortified in their Faith and psychologically and spiritually forewarned and immunized against the cunning process that employs many of them as useful idiots or fellow travelers.

Its analysis of the revolutionary process is impressive and revealing on account of its realism and profound understanding of history, from the end of the Middle Ages in decadence, which paved the way for the paganizing Renaissance and the pseudo?Reformation, thence for the terrible French Revolution, and. soon after, atheistic Communism.

That historical analysis is not only external. The actions and reactions it deals with are also explained in light of the human psychology, both the individual psychology and the collective psychology of the masses. However, it is necessary to recognize that someone directs this profound and systematic de?Christianization. Man undoubtedly tends toward evil - pride and sensuality - but were not someone holding the reins of these disorderly tendencies and sagaciously coordinating them, they most probably would not have produced such a constant, skillful, and systematic action, which, tenaciously maintained, profits even from the ups and downs caused by the resistance and natural "reaction" of the opposing forces.

Revolution and Counter-Revolutionalso foresees, although using caution in its prognoses and by means of hypotheses, the next possible evolution of the revolutionary action and, in turn, that of the Counter-Revolution.

The book abounds in perspicacious sociological, political, psychological, and evolutive insights and observations, not few of which are worthy of an anthology. Many of them outline the intelligent "tactics" that favor the Revolution and those that may and should be used in a general counter-revolutionary "strategy."

In sum, I would dare to affirm that this is a prophetic work in the best sense of the word. It should be taught in the Church's centers of higher education so that at least the elite classes become fully aware of a crushing reality about which, I believe, they do not have a clear notion. This, among other things, would contribute to revealing and unmasking the useful idiots or fellow travelers, among whom are found many ecclesiastical figures, who act in a suicidal manner by playing the enemy's game; this group of idiots, allies of the Revolution, would in good measure disappear....

The second part of the book well explains the Counter?Revolution's nature and the courageous and "aggressive" tactics that counter?revolutionaries must implement while always avoiding excesses and improper and imprudent attitudes.

Before such realities, one doubts there is a true "strategy" in the Church as there is in the Revolution. One does find many "tactical" elements, actions, and institutions, but they seem to act in isolation, without a notion of the whole. The concept of a Counter-Revolution and the realization that a Counter-Revolution is acting could unify and provide a greater sense of collaboration within the Church.

I must congratulate the TFP movement for the stature and quality of its founder, Prof. Plinio. I foresee and desire with all my soul a vast development and a future full of counter?revolutionary successes for the TFP.

I conclude stating that the spirit with which this work is written greatly impresses me: It is a profoundly Christian spirit, one with a passionate love for the Church. This book is an authentic product of Christian wisdom. It is moving to find in a layman such a sincere devotion to the Mother of Jesus and ours - a clear sign of predestination. "Uncertain, like everyone, about tomorrow, we prayerfully raise our eyes to the lofty throne of Mary, Queen of the Universe.... We beseech the Virgin, therefore, to accept this filial homage, a tribute of love and an expression of absolute confidence in her triumph" (pp. 165, 167).

Rome, September 8, 1993
Feast of the Nativity of Our Lady
Fr. Anastasio Gutierrez

Note: Fr. Anastasio Gutierrrez, C.M.F., is one of the Catholic Church's most renowned canonists.

Born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, in 1911, Father Gutierrez is a Spanish citizen who has lived in Rome for the last fifty years.
In Rome, he received his doctorate in Canon Law from the Pontifical Lateran University Later, he held a chair at that university's School of Canon Law, eventually becoming its dean. Father Gutierrez served as a peritus during the Second Vatican Council, and for many years was Cardinal Larraona's assistant in the Congregation for the Religious. He also is a founder of the Institutum Iuridicum Claretianum of Rome.
He participated in the commission charged to write the new Code of Canon Law, and is presently a consultant to the following Vatican dicasteries: Congregation for the Oriental Churches, Congregation for the Clergy, and Congregation for the Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. He is also a consultant to the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts, the highest Church organ for canonical questions.

More recently, Father Gutierrez became postulator of Queen Isabella of Castile's cause of canonization.

25 posted on 01/30/2006 12:15:37 PM PST by concernedAmerican1 (millstones solve scandals)
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To: concernedAmerican1
"The V***** Monologues"

The Valentines Day Monologues?

26 posted on 01/30/2006 12:18:59 PM PST by Hatteras
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To: concernedAmerican1

It's just the old 'it's about me' crowd. (and my vagina) Selfishness personified!

27 posted on 01/30/2006 12:22:17 PM PST by wolfcreek
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To: concernedAmerican1
The fact is that Marian Horvat and Guimaraies broke away from TFP and have had no connection with TFP for many years, which is a legitimate organization of Catholic inspiration in good standing with the magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church.

*Good Lord. Her brother is on the board. Months ago he attacked me on here - just like you are doing - for revealing the facts about Marian and Atila and TFP. When folkks learn Plinio was considered God by his followers, well that kind of raises a 1000 red flags or so.

As to TFP, the Brazilian Bishops condemned them as whackos.

You ping the administrator and then charge me with a lack of charity. Priceless.

Your actions speak volumes about who it is attracted to this cult.

28 posted on 01/30/2006 3:29:46 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

Past and Present Day Relations

between TIA (Tradition in Action)

and TFP (Tradition, Family and Property)

TIA has received many questions from its supporters and readers regarding its links to TFP.

It was judged opportune to address these questions here as an ensemble.

1. Question: Was there ever any relationship between TIA – Tradition in Action – and TFP – Tradition, Family and Property?

Answer: As for the two organizations, there were few links from the past because TIA is much more recent than TFP. TIA’s public life started after 1995, the year of the death of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.

Some of the members of TIA, however, did have past links with TFP. Mr. Atila S. Guimarães was an associate of the Brazilian TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he was excluded from the board of the organization. Dr. Marian T. Horvat also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until approximately the same time.

The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations.

2. Question: Could you explain in more detail what led to this rupture?

Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira (left) edits the Portuguese text of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. Atila Sinke Guimarães (at right) takes note of the corrections. They are working in front of a small statue of Our Lady of Good Success.

Answer: The main reason was that, given the accelerated destruction inside Holy Mother Church, Tradition in Action judged it necessary to publish the work of Guimarães analyzing Vatican Council II with the hope of changing the present day religious situation. TFP objected strongly to this action. That antagonism was translated into the following facts:

A.S. Guimarães decided to publish the first book of his collection on Vatican Council II, and the American edition was launched in November 1997 under the responsibility of TIA. The new president of the Brazilian TFP wrote a letter some days later demanding that Guimarães remove the book from circulation. He gave two basic reasons: first, according to him Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira did not want to publish the collection on the Council in our days, and second, the Brazilian TFP board of directors also did not want to publish it.

3. Question: Were these arguments correct?

Answer: No and yes. No, the first argument is not correct, because Prof. Plinio did want to publish the collection on Vatican II to try to change the present day religious situation. Yes, the second reason is correct, because the directors of the Brazilian TFP positively did not want to publish it.

4. Question: Is it possible to be more specific about the intentions of Prof. Plinio?

Answer: Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira invited A.S. Guimarães to write the collection on the Council and gave him the necessary intellectual and material assistance to do so from 1982 until 1995 when he died, that is, for all the years it took the author to write and edit the 11 volumes. During this time, Prof. Plinio also spoke to him about his plans for the future of the collection. The author gave some of those guidelines in the introduction of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II.

In November 1997, after Guimarães received the ultimatum demanding that he remove the book from circulation, he responded by writing a long answer (266 pages) addressing the objections presented by the Brazilian TFP president. In that defense he reproduced innumerable texts in which Prof. Plinio supported and stimulated not only the writing of the collection, but also its publication as soon as possible. Guimarães had tape-recorded and typed many of the meetings in which he received this orientation directly from Prof. Plinio.

After he finished writing his defense in March 1998, Guimarães asked two witnesses to deliver the work to the TFP president, which was done. He also printed 500 copies of this document and tried to spread it among TFP members. Since the letter condemning him had been widely circulated within the TFP, it seemed fair that the members should know the refutation to it. To this day there has been no response from the directors to the defense. Further, they forbade the members to read it, and have continued to spread the fabrication that Prof. Plinio did not want to publish Guimarães’ books on the Council.

5. Question: Why did the Brazilian president of TFP and its board of directors try to forbid Guimarães from publishing his book in 1997?

Answer: In several discussions with the author prior to the ultimatum, the directors avowed that as they were intellectually unprepared to face a public polemic with the religious authority, they did not want to stir up any waters. Even if one sets aside the truth of the first statement, the decision to avoid a public polemic, which in effect meant deserting the battlefront, raised a grave moral problem. Many times in History, Catholics with inferior means have been called to face enemies with superior resources. They did not run away from the fight. They had the courage to face the enemy and trusted in Divine Providence to give them assistance to win.

In the case of the TFP and the fight against Progressivism in the Church the same principle should be applied. Therefore, what was condemnable in the attitude of the directors was that they lacked courage to continue the struggle, and lacked faith in Divine Providence to fill the vacuum created by their own deficient preparation for the situation.

There was, in addition, another important reason why those directors did not want to enter into any polemic with the religious authority, a reason that Guimarães learned of two years after its occurrence. This was the existence of a clear-cut compromise made between the TFP directors and the ecclesiastic structure, by which they committed to refrain from any public discussion on Vatican II and the reforms that came from it. The directors sent a letter containing this promise to the Cardinal Primate of Brazil, then Cardinal Lucas Moreira Neves, giving him the guarantee that the TFP would no longer combat Vatican II and its consequences.

6. Question: Is it possible to know the content of this letter?

Answer: Yes, it is. Guimarães reproduced the main parts of it in his defense. These parts will be posted below.

The letter was dated September 18, 1995. It was written and sent without the consent of Prof. Plinio, who was in the hospital and died two weeks later on October 3, 1995. The pretext for the letter was to clarify some points for Cardinal Moreira Neves, who days before had attacked TFP as opposed to Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae. The letter was signed by Canon José Luiz Villac, an ecclesiastic who was chosen to represent the directors in the agreement. In the document, he speaks, in fact, as a representative of the directors and the whole organization. The letter was delivered, but the agreement was kept quiet. Only a handful of persons knew about its existence. The great majority of TFP members did not know about this official compromise of the directorate then, and perhaps they are still unaware of it today.

Here are the more important excerpts:

“The words of Your Eminence that ‘the TFP does not hide its opposition to Vatican Council II .... and takes a critical attitude in relation to the Mass of Paul VI in favor of that of St. Pius V,’ also contains erroneous information.

“The attitude of those who belong to the TFP toward Vatican Council II and the Mass of Paul VI is quite nuanced. With regard to the latter, the TFP always has maintained a discrete position, and does not want to make public certain theological difficulties raised by the Novus Ordo Missae. It is waiting for a full elucidation of the subject from the supreme authority of the Church.

“In face of the very grave problems that afflict the Church in our days - so often mentioned by H.H. John Paul II - this is the position, Your Eminence, of the great majority of the members, supporters and correspondents of the TFP: “1. They admit that they are perplexed over certain reforms and certain events that have taken place in the Church since the pontificate of John XXIII;

“2. This perplexity is defined as a non-comprehension and an uneasiness;

“3. This perplexity is not an affirmation that there is error in these events and these reforms, and it is also not an affirmation that there is not error. Those who make up the TFP, even if they are instructed Catholics, declare themselves incapable of resolving all the very complex theological, moral, canonical and liturgical questions that are at the root of this uneasiness.

“In view of this, they are trying to accompany the debates over these questions that surge here and there in the ecclesiastical sphere, waiting for the matter to be duly clarified.

“While they wait for this clarification, they adhere entirely to the terms set out by Pope John Paul II in his Apostolic Letter Ecclesia Dei, and that are contained in the protocol that various traditionalist groups have signed with the Vatican [which affirms]: ‘With regard to some doctrines taught by Vatican Council II, or with regard to later reforms, liturgical or of Canon Law, that can seem difficult to reconcile with declarations of the previous Magisterium, I assume the obligation of maintaining a positive attitude of study and communication with the Apostolic See, avoiding any polemic.’

“I pledge my word as a priest to guarantee Your Eminence that this balanced and conciliatory attitude has always been adopted by those who belong to the TFP, and that they have no intention of abandoning it.”

From the time the letter was written until today, all the practical evidence indicates that the TFP is keeping its side of that bargain, maintaining a position of non-militancy in face of the infiltration of Progressivism in the Catholic Hierarchy.

In contrast, TIA is assuming a position of active fight and public resistance.

7. Question: Is it true that under Prof. Plinio’s presidency, the TFP always took a “discrete position” and a “balanced and conciliatory attitude” toward Vatican II and its reforms as affirmed in the letter

At the airport, Prof. Plinio (left) leaves Rome after the first session of Vatican II.

Answer: No, it is not true. He was one of the first leaders of the Resistance against the novelties that came from Vatican II. During the whole first session of the Council (1962) he was in Rome following the debates. When he perceived that the progressivist wing was trying to protect Communism, he wrote the essay The Freedom of the Church in a Communist State, which was first written to be spread among the conciliar Fathers and helped to stimulate the petition that hundreds of Bishops signed asking the Pope for a solemn condemnation of Communism in the Council. Cardinal Giuseppe Pizzardo and Archbishop Dino Staffa, respectively Prefect and Secretary of the Congregation of Seminars and Universities, who were expressive figures of the conservative wing of Prelates at Vatican II, wrote a letter praising this work of Prof. Plinio and recognizing its importance.

Another work of Prof. Plinio was on the topic of dialogue and ecumenism – Unperceived Ideological Transshipment and Dialogue. It was published in 1965 during the fourth and last session of Vatican II. The more profound purpose of this book was to break the spell of the dialogue launched simultaneously by John XXIII and Communist leaders to encourage an atmosphere of mutual collaboration between Catholics and Communists. The dangerous emotional climate created by ecumenism with false religions was also pointed out in the book to de-mythify the fad for dialogue that was rapidly gaining ground in the Catholic religious milieu.

In 1970 and 1971 he wrote forceful articles against the indirect support Paul VI gave to the installment of Communism in Chile. In 1971 he clearly and publicly declared that the conciliar Popes should not be followed should they teach against private property or try to destroy the “Constantine Church.” He also clearly criticized Vatican II for not having condemned Communism. In 1974 he wrote his famous Declaration of Resistance against the Vatican policy of Ostpolitik. In that same year, from April to December, he wrote a series of articles showing different aspects of his Resistance to some of the Vatican positions. TIA plans to post some of these invaluable pieces on its website.

With regard to the new Mass, it was Prof. Plinio who invited a Brazilian scholar – Arnaldo Xavier da Silveira – to make a careful study about the Protestant tendency of the Novus Ordo and the eventuality of a Pope falling into heresy and schism, as well as a study to know when ecclesiastical laws are infallible. This scholar wrote a book on these topics, and Prof. Plinio took the initiative to publish this work in 1970. Afterward he sent it to all of the more than 300 Brazilian Bishops, with the approval of and a letter of recommendation by Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer. Prof. Plinio also encouraged the author to publish the book in French (1975), which was done. During his lifetime TFP members were not allowed to attend the new Mass.

In 1982 he invited Atila Guimarães to write his collection on Vatican II, and planned to publish it around the end of 1995. He died before that.

Many other similar actions could be listed here. What the facts clearly show is that the position of Prof. Plinio regarding Vatican II and the new Mass in no way can be considered “discrete” or “conciliatory.”

8. Question: Would you describe the general lines of TFP, and explain how they differ from those of TIA?

Answer: Until Prof. Plinio’s death, TFP was well known for being in the front line of the anti-Progressivist and anti-Communist fights. After his death, one might say that the organization rolled up its standards and abandoned these battles.

With regard to Progressivism, today TFP restrains its combat to skirmishes with several radical progressivists, leaving free ground to the non-radical enemies who have infiltrated the Church to continue their plan of destruction. It was these same subtle enemies who in times past TFP used to denounce. Before Prof. Plinio’s death TFP used to be a scourge of the progressivist and concessive Bishops; today it has become a sycophant of them. Its fight against Progressivism has been replaced by some few other actions – against abortion and blasphemous films. Laudable actions, without a doubt. But lacking any special risk, they no longer constitute the audacious fight that characterized the entity in times past.

Regarding the anti-Communist fight, the organization made no significant action to prevent the election of Lula, a Communist, as president of Brazil. It made no serious denunciation of the strong support the Catholic Hierarchy gave him, which brought him to power. Again, the organization that under Prof Plinio’s presidency had prevented Lula from being elected several times, did practically nothing to stop his election in October 2002. The other actions of TFP against Communism consist of small scuffles turned to particular points trying to keep the day-to-day bourgeois establishment working. Certainly they are not bad actions, but they are drastically insufficient. The present day TFP members seem like sailors obstinately trying to maintain the day-to-day order on a Titanic that is sinking.

Regarding the general mentality reigning in the organization, it is sad to consider the change: the abandonment of grandeur and the embracing of mediocrity.

These certainly are not the lines of TIA. We try to remain faithful to the militant and counter-revolutionary orientation of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira both in the religious sphere, that is, the fight against Progressivism that has infiltrated the Church, and in the temporal sphere, that is, the fight against Communism and its more recent consequences, such as self-managing Socialism, Ecology, and the Cultural Revolution.

*So, TIA says the TFP sucks.

The Brazilian Bishops condemened them as nuts. Plinoo, like so many self-labeled "trads" considered his own opinions definitive; just like a protestant

Atila and Marian were participants in TFP and did help bring them to America.

So, go ahead..keep making my day

29 posted on 01/30/2006 3:56:28 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
*Even the sspx' Williamson recognized Plinio's desire to excise the priesthood

Now the Society of St. Pius X has serious problems with Dr. Plinio as a Catholic leader, especially towards the end of his days, and with the TFP, mainly because of the insufficient role it seems to attribute to the Catholic priesthood in its planned rescue of Christian civilization.

*It is exceedingly difficult to get to the right of Williamson

30 posted on 01/30/2006 4:04:03 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
There were other bishops who held the line and remained Catholic despite the pressure from all sides to get in step with the new religion. Most heroic of those bishops was Antonio de Castro Mayer, who along with another holy bishop Dom Geraldo de Proenca Sigaud, who was Bishop of Jacerzinho, and their political ally Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira kept parts of Brazil faithful during the years that the rest of Latin America was falling for the heretical "Liberation Theology."

*Yet, it was this same great Bishop who denounced TFP

Also, Plinio's denial of the future role of priests - and the exclusion in the present of priests from all the more secret aspects of the group - led Monsignor Castro de Mayer, for decades Plinio's patron among the Brazilian bishops, to state:

"TFP is a heretical sect since, although they do not say so in words or in writing, lives and acts according to a principle which undermines the very basis of all true Christianity, that is the Catholic church".

*Despite your claims to the contrary, TFP is, essentially, a cult. And it was also condemned by the Brazilian Bishops

31 posted on 01/30/2006 4:10:38 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: concernedAmerican1
You claim TFP is in good standing with the Magisterium

Council of Brazilian bishops approved a note concerning the 'Brazilian Society for the Defence of Tradition, Family and Property', advising Catholics not to join the above mentioned Society […].

Its esoteric character, its religious fanaticism, the personality cult of the founder and of his mother, the abuse of the name of the Virgin Mary […] can absolutely not be approved of by the Church"

Since when is an esoteric cult which abuses the name of the Virgin Mary "in good standing with the Magosterium?"

32 posted on 01/30/2006 4:13:57 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
Have nothing to do with the Society for the Protection of TRadition, Family, and Property. It's a RadTrad cult.... (my emphasis)

Posted by: Sandra Miesel at Feb 13, 2005 2:54:14 PM

Sandra Miesel, medievalist and Catholic journalist,

33 posted on 01/30/2006 4:30:59 PM PST by bornacatholic
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